In defence of the 'Friendzoned'

[BloatedGuppy]

A relationship is a hell lot more than just sex.

That's a fascinating obvious truth, but I'm not sure how it's relevant to anything I said.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I was in the "friend zone" of a guy for the better part of my late teens (from about age 15 to 19). I was head over heels in love with this guy for four years and he made it amply clear that he cared for me a great deal, but also that he had a girlfriend and that we could be nothing more than friends. And you know what? With the benefit of retrospect it was the best friendship I ever had.

I wasn't "friend zoned". No one is ever "friend zoned". We are put in a situation where we are told that what we want isn't available to us so we can either accept the middle ground or walk away. I choose to stay in the friend zone because this guy was so important to me that even without a romantic relation between us I still wanted him in my life. He choose to be my best friend (to the chagrin of his girlfriend, at times) and we both got a lot out of that friendship.

Those are my biggest issue with the ideas of "friend zoning":
1. That friendship is some form of consolation prize for not getting the romantic relationship. If you really love this person, then you will still care for that person even if you are friends and your friendship can be a beautiful thing in and of itself. Apart from the sex and intimacy there's very little you can't do as friends that you would only do in a relationship. Besides, if you can't appreciate a friendship with someone you claim to be in love with, it probably isn't love you are feeling or a romantic relation that you want.
2. That "friend zoning" is an active and malicious act done upon you. You want something, you can't get it. That's life. That someone won't provide you something they can't give (love) is not malicious or bad. The problem is that people who talk about the "friend zone" often end up sounding like entitled, egocentric whiners. They want something from someone and when they don't get it they make it seem as if a grave injustice has been enacted upon them. They've done x and y and z and ye they don't get that love they feel they deserve for it. The realization has to be that no one owes love because I am nice to them.

Part of the problem is that "friend zoning" is often tossed around by Nice Guys (the not so nice kind). To compare their idea of love to a slot machine seems apt. They seem to think that if you just feed the machine enough nickels (do Nice Guy Friend Stuff) you will eventually win (Get the Romantic Relationship). If you can't appreciate a friendship with someone you claim to love, chances are you aren't very in love.

 

[Realitycrash]

Well, it is just about sex. That is the primary difference between romantic and platonic relationships. Sexual attraction/interest.

A "romantic", for the lack of a better word, relationship isn't "same as friends, but with sex". That would be that other loathed expression, "friends with benefits"[footnote]By my grandpa's beard, I hate that pretentious expression[/footnote]. Having been involved in several of each, I can pretty much state that just taking the sex away from the "romantic" one won't result in a "platonic friendship", because there are other commitments there too, a lot more compromise involved.

Oh, but I noticed you used the word "primary". On that, I suppose you could argue it's "mostly about sex", but not "just". I'd still disagree with you on that one, though, because sex isn't this magic wand that transforms one relationship into another.

Eh, for me, I'd say it is. I have several (female) friends which I love just as much, if not more, than I have loved previous romantic partners. The only thing that differs our relationships from the romantic part it that we aren't having sex. I trust them, I find them funny, I enjoy being around them, etc. If I had been physically attracted to one of them then I'd call it 'having romantic feelings for them'.
Sorry, but I don't see how there are any 'special' feelings in a relationship that aren't present in a friendship except convoluted by hormones.

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

Charge the beaches of Normandy!

If you are cut down. Prepare for the next campaign (so I agree with you).

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Here's the thing.. a lot of, if not almost all men, are easy to lead by their nose. It doesn't take much to feign interest in a guy and make obscure promises or even tell flat out lies, to make us do things.
If there was a rape culture, this would be the female equivalent of it. Using another person to get what they want.

This is possibly the most misandristic thing I've read all day. Not only that, I am pretty confident that it is patently untrue outside of the teenager demographic (and teenagers are kind of easy to trick, irregardless of gender, due to their youth, hormones and naivety). A majority of men are quite likely to question why a woman is suddenly showing interest in them (while asking for favors), especially if these men are in a functional relationship with someone else. To suggest that men are either a) stupid or b) too controlled by their sex drive to realize a woman is leading them on reeks of preconceptions to me.

 

[Moloch Sacrifice]

Here's the thing.. a lot of, if not almost all men, are easy to lead by their nose. It doesn't take much to feign interest in a guy and make obscure promises or even tell flat out lies, to make us do things.
If there was a rape culture, this would be the female equivalent of it. Using another person to get what they want.

This is possibly the most misandristic thing I've read all day. Not only that, I am pretty confident that it is patently untrue outside of the teenager demographic (and teenagers are kind of easy to trick, irregardless of gender, due to their youth, hormones and naivety). A majority of men are quite likely to question why a woman is suddenly showing interest in them (while asking for favors), especially if these men are in a functional relationship with someone else. To suggest that men are either a) stupid or b) too controlled by their sex drive to realize a woman is leading them on reeks of preconceptions to me.

I believe Smilomaniac is actually being derogatory to both genders; suggesting that women can be manipulative to the point of maliciousness, whilst also stating that men are easily manipulated. Obviously, this can be said of a percentage of either gender, but I hold this to be a very cynical perception of the human condition.

What I find most curious is Smilomaniac's apparent belief he is likely to be easily manipulated, despite the insight he holds on the signs and context of said manipulation. Is this an inference that he believes men are incapable of higher thought when the possibility of sex is provided? I am genuinely puzzled that someone could believe they have so little control over their lives.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I believe Smilomaniac is actually being derogatory to both genders; suggesting that women can be manipulative to the point of maliciousness, whilst also stating that men are easily manipulated. Obviously, this can be said of a percentage of either gender, but I hold this to be a very cynical perception of the human condition.

What I find most curious is Smilomaniac's apparent belief he is likely to be easily manipulated, despite the insight he holds on the signs and context of said manipulation. Is this an inference that he believes men are incapable of higher thought when the possibility of sex is provided? I am genuinely puzzled that someone could believe they have so little control over their lives.

The misogynist part of his post is not lost on me, it just pales in comparison to how little stock he apparently puts in men's ability to control their libido. I, just as you, am puzzled at how can hold this belief, especially if he knows and understands the context of the manipulation going on.

 

[Micalas]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

> Met a girl on a dating site (paid site not some bullshit like Zoosk)
> Hit it off great and spent almost every waking moment together
> Decided 3 months later she just wanted to be friends3

 

[krazykidd]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

> Met a girl on a dating site (paid site not some bullshit like Zoosk)
> Hit it off great and spent almost every waking moment together
> Decided 3 months later she just wanted to be friends3

So you were relationship for 3 months , then she said let's just be friends. That's not being " friendzoned" . She just broke up with you and asked if you can continue being friends. To get friendzoned, you can't get the girl . If you got ( or had ) the girl it's doesn't count as friendzone .

What friendzone apparently is ( i say apparently , because like i said , i don't believe in friendzone) is when you want to date a girl, and she says no because she doesn't want to change/ruin the friendship. Which is just a nice way of saying , she doesn't want to date "you".

 

[Micalas]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

> Met a girl on a dating site (paid site not some bullshit like Zoosk)
> Hit it off great and spent almost every waking moment together
> Decided 3 months later she just wanted to be friends3

So you were relationship for 3 months , then she said let's just be friends. That's not being " friendzoned" . She just broke up with you and asked if you can continue being friends. To get friendzoned, you can't get the girl . If you got ( or had ) the girl it's doesn't count as friendzone .

What friendzone apparently is ( i say apparently , because like i said , i don't believe in friendzone) is when you want to date a girl, and she says no because she doesn't want to change/ruin the friendship. Which is just a nice way of saying , she doesn't want to date "you".

I also forgot to mention that she said that "we were never dating."

 

[Blow_Pop]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

I simultaneously agree and disagree.

I agree in the sense of "if a person doesn't want to date another person they are then friendzoned" doesn't exist.

However, if you look at it, technically speaking you are in a "friend zone" with every single one of your friends. And that's my disagreement.

Back onto the topic at hand though, to answer the OP:

Or is it simply a refuge invented by the possessive, who seek to validate their inability to secure their prize?

This ^

The people who mostly use it want to validate their inability to secure their "prize" and make the person who isn't interested in them the villain. Because heaven help us, someone wasn't attracted to them and told them so and that's the end of the world as they know it because they were attracted to them. It's why it makes me uncomfortable to date anymore and uncomfortable to let a person interested in me pay for anything unless we have a strict agreement that they are paying this time and next time I am. Though honestly, I prefer paying for my own shit. If I can't afford it, I'm not getting it. Simple as that.

 

[AsurasEyes]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

I find the friendzone, and those who complain about being constantly "friendzoned" as annoying as any other guy, but it's still an actual thing, it exists. I really wish people would stop posting in threads like this going on about how it isn't a thing and the people at hand are just pussies.

It's not that, it's blaming some fictional state of existence for your problems. It's depressing, like blaming Santa for giving you Black Plague. The friendzone doesn't exist, and it's perpetuated by people who cannot just ask someone out. I'm socially awkward as one would expect, but I wouldn't ever blame my lack of girls on the a nonexistent entity. I just say, "Well, I'm just shy. Guess I should work on that"

 

[Catrixa]

"Friendzone" is such a painfully silly word. Without digging into the nitty-gritty of internet definitions for made-up words (if there's a Webster definition out there, we all need to be using it), it implies the situation "I was first in one zone, then I was moved to the friendzone." It often doesn't even matter how you "got there," since most people just assume someone (or based on this thread "something") put you there. You did not move yourself to this zone, therefore it is not your fault.

Do people who get to this place ever think "hey, maybe they're right, maybe we're better as friends?" No, they think "that jerk put me in the friend zone! How dare they!" The friendzone is a safe place where you are blameless, where you cannot help how you feel (correct) and how you react to how you feel (not correct).

I was in the "friendzone" once, I guess. I thought of it as: "hey, I really like this guy, but I guess he doesn't like me back. But he's still a pretty cool dude, and we have fun together, so I'd still like to be friends." After awhile of not getting over this and moving on, I told him about my feelings, and we decided that it would be best to work through them so we could be friends. It was a hard thing to do, but it was relieving to say "I like you, but respect that you just want to be friends. Let's work together on that." Then, because the "friendzone" isn't a magical trap that sucks people in and keeps them there forever (and because life is both messy and weird), we eventually got married.

Tl;dr: The "friendzone" is a made-up fantasy land where you are blameless for your feelings and how you react to them. If taking responsibility for yourself is too hard, you've been friendzoned. If you're up for a challenge, you try get over it and either be their friend or move on.

 

[krazykidd]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

> Met a girl on a dating site (paid site not some bullshit like Zoosk)
> Hit it off great and spent almost every waking moment together
> Decided 3 months later she just wanted to be friends3

So you were relationship for 3 months , then she said let's just be friends. That's not being " friendzoned" . She just broke up with you and asked if you can continue being friends. To get friendzoned, you can't get the girl . If you got ( or had ) the girl it's doesn't count as friendzone .

What friendzone apparently is ( i say apparently , because like i said , i don't believe in friendzone) is when you want to date a girl, and she says no because she doesn't want to change/ruin the friendship. Which is just a nice way of saying , she doesn't want to date "you".

I also forgot to mention that she said that "we were never dating."

So what exactly did you do for 3 months? [small] and who makes friends on a dating site?[/small]

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The misogynist part of his post is not lost on me, it just pales in comparison to how little stock he apparently puts in men's ability to control their libido. I, just as you, am puzzled at how can hold this belief, especially if he knows and understands the context of the manipulation going on.

Eh. It's pretty common to cast men as passive victims of either their raging libidos or of the cataclysmic sexiness of the average woman. It's one of many ways in which certain individuals abdicate responsibility for all their actions to forces that are ostensibly outside of their control. My penis made me do it.

and who makes friends on a dating site?

People who get together on a regular date and one or both parties immediately discover they have no sexual chemistry.

 

[Villain Protagonist]

I think he means in the sense that she says they were never dating. If thats the case what the hell other reason would he be on a dating site.

 

[generals3]

There is.

I've done it. Several times in fact.

It involves genuinely accepting that a person who is not actually attracted to you is, as far as you should be concerned in that moment, always wrong for you. Once you stop clinging to the power fantasy that maybe, just maybe you'll do or say the right thing and sex will result then the rest is remarkably easy. You grieve, and you move on. If you don't move on, it's probably because you're still clinging to enough hope that you haven't grieved yet.

And clinging to hope is humanity's specialty. And on other point is that if you're constantly reminded to why you want to be romantically involved with said person (by being around him/her that much) it simply fuels the hope, it creates a desire for hope.

Again, I disagree.

It's only a problem if you're going to allow yourself to be constantly haunted by unresolved feelings as opposed to, you know, actually resolving them.

I'd say breaking off is a very efficient way at resolving them. You have a problem related to feelings => you fix them by taking distance from the source of the problems.

Now, emotional distance.. sure.. I mean, if you've been fantasizing about someone non-stop or if you've been bringing virtually everything in your life back to them that's probably something you should force yourself not to do (not hard, just takes some discipline). I understand the feeling of becoming obsessed with someone, but again.. it passes if you don't indulge it.

Not at all. If everything reminds you of said person it's probably too late. However that person reminding you of that person seems quite straight forward. Hence why taking distance.

Physical distance, however, is meaningless. If I sit in my room for a month moping about how so-and-so rejected me, it's not going to hurt any less than just spending that month hanging out as friends in full acceptance that that's all that's ever going to happen so I might as well take what I can get.

No it is not useless considering it allows you not to continuously being confronted with the person of your desires and why you desire that person. It is very great way too get that person out of your mind and move on.

That said, if bailing out is helpful for you then fine. Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't act on your emotions, just don't pretend that they constitute an excuse.

Excuse for what? For taking distance? I'd say they're a great excuse. Just like not having feelings is a great excuse for the person of interest not to get romantically involved. And this is where the logic breaks down, why is one person's feelings NOT an excuse and the other's is?

It depends.

If someone pisses you off because they're poking you in the eye with a stick, then yeah. It's probably best to get away from that and try and avoid them.

But if someone pisses you off because you simply feel insecure and inferior around them, for example, or because you're constantly afraid they will turn on you despite having no reason to believe that, then that's nothing to do with that person at all. It's an emotion which comes from you and one you'd probably do well to examine before you dump it on anyone else.

Sure, BUT, wouldn't you agree getting away from said person would still take that anger away?

 

[Micalas]

So what exactly did you do for 3 months? [small] and who makes friends on a dating site?[/small]

I won't go into detail (and no, it's not what you're thinking) but we had a great time. Or at least I thought so, seeing as how we spent 8-10 hours a day together. But in the end it didn't work out. Maybe the friendzone doesn't exist, but maybe, just maybe I broke a hole in the space-time continuum and found myself in a universe where it does.

 

[EvilRoy]

What I find most curious is Smilomaniac's apparent belief he is likely to be easily manipulated, despite the insight he holds on the signs and context of said manipulation. Is this an inference that he believes men are incapable of higher thought when the possibility of sex is provided? I am genuinely puzzled that someone could believe they have so little control over their lives.

It might just be with consideration of how people are typically conned and manipulated. As the saying goes "Give me a smart mark over a dumb one every time."

That is to say, the better you think you know the system, or the more unmanipulatable you think you are, the easier it is to fool you. It usually comes across as conceit:

"If there was a con going on I would smell it a mile away. Timeshare? Sniff Sniff, no con here, this is all gold."
"I'm smarter than any con man, I'll just let myself be lead along for a bit and flip it around on him. Wheres my wallet?"
"This guy gets me, he knows how smart I am and just wants to laugh about all these other rubes he has taken for a ride. Yeah sure, here's my address."

With the dumb marks it tends to come across as obstinance:
"If it don't sound right, it ain't right. Piss off."
"This guy looks like a weasel. I'll keep my hands in my pockets until he's done."
"If this weirdo keeps trying to get buddy buddy with me, I'm gonna sock him."