In defence of the 'Friendzoned'

[MCerberus]

Biologically, the friend-zone is the point where a woman is familiar with man to the point where he's filed under 'non-threatening, non-romantic interest'. Being able to do this is actually pretty important in being able to live in a complex society humanity has evolved to. In any case, she's not malicious. She's just not interested. If the man is romantically interested in the woman, but doesn't make this known, he's done his own damage.

If you think you're in this zone, try doing something different, presenting aspects of yourself you usually don't, and DON'T THINK THAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO A RELATIONSHIP THROUGH BEING NICE.

 

[2xDouble]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

Oh there most certainly is such a thing. I've used it many times to discourage uncomfortable attention and possible harassment charges for my behavior. It's a remarkably freeing, downright powerful feeling, accepting that you will actively not consider one person or another as having "serious" relationship potential. Maybe the female perspective on it is different, I wouldn't know.

The simple fact is, everyone does it. Very few will admit it openly (else risk losing contact entirely with one who may be otherwise interesting), and even fewer accept responsibility for it themselves, preferring to blame others (s/he "friendzoned" me).

However, I'd like to further point out that relationships are not binary, black-and-white things. There are many levels of relationship, and they can fluctuate wildly from day to day. "Moving on", or cutting that person out of your life simply because he or she rejected you once is going to leave your world a very lonely place indeed. I think The Beatles put it best (if in a slightly different context), from Hey Jude: "... for well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool by making his world a little colder."

 

[Naeras]

What do you think? Is the friendzone an unfortunate label applied to those wrestling with romantic expression? Or is it simply a refuge invented by the possessive, who seek to validate their inability to secure their prize?

Pretty much the latter. For a lot of people, it's easier to imply that something is wrong with the other person (because only a bad person would actively "friendzone" someone) rather than admitting that sometimes people you're interested in simply do not feel the same about you. That doesn't need to mean you're possessive, more often it's just a case of someone not having the emotional maturity to deal with, or face the risk of, romantic rejection.

From my experience, the whole idea of a "friend zone" seems to mostly disappear after people are done with high school. Being more mature, more experienced (well, usually) and having more ways to expand your social circle really helps in that regard.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Yeah, the whole "so you think just because you're nice you are owed sex?" line never really rang true with me. It's not that you're pretending to be her friend either. Often the issue is you're such good friends that you fear giving up that side of the relationship because you tried to change the nature of it. Not to mention how other friends of hers are going to react. The fear of being ostracised from potentially a whole friendship group is pretty bad. I don't think it's necessarily rejection that is the fear, but more the loss of friendship. That's certainly how I've felt about it, just not wanting to fuck up a good thing.

Sure, that's a very real thing, but it's not the friendzone.

That's pretty spot on with my definition.

I remember back in High School that there was this girl I would spend a large amount of time with, and we were pretty good friends. I thought she was attractive, but she had been dating someone else when we first started hanging out so I never looked for a relationship. After a while when she was single though, I developed feeling for her and made those known, but was rejected on the basis that it would ruin the friendship. Probably would have made things a bit strange with our other friends too in retrospect.

But being "friendzoned" in this case was already having an existing, well-established friendship that the girl did not want to damage by involving a more intimate relationship.

It does seem like the definition had changed slightly over the last 5+ years though to mean something a bit different, or at least, different things to different people.

Okay, I'm going to be a bit harsh with this, which is very unusual of me, but I apologise in advance if I offend:

That is pure naivety. I'm going to drop a bomb that may shake the foundations of that friendship... she was never interested in you in "that" way. What she told you was to avoid crushing you, because she is an empathetic human being. She was likely aware of how delicate a person can be when confessing their affections. She also, likely, enjoys your company... but only as a friend.

This might all be obvious to you, but I get the distinct impression that you think you had a shot, even when you are looking back on it retrospectively. It's okay to think you have a shot beforehand... that's the affect of confidence and you shouldn't want to lose that. But, afterwards, likely as a result of naivety, you are foolish to think you still had a shot, but something went wrong in it's execution.

No, she didn't want you in that way, but she didn't want to hurt you either (compassion isn't exclusive to lovers after all), so she made some arbitrary claim that your friendship mattered more then a relationship.

Here's the thing about the "friendzone" in this case. You were always in it... it was the default position of that scenario before you even talked to her about your feelings. You were never NOT in the "friendzone".

So why call it a friendzone? By this logic the vast majority of people you meet have you in the "friendzone" because many of them do not seek to pursue a relationship outside of friendship with you. It is the DEFAULT state of being... you are in the "friendzone" until you are not. It's useless social jargon.

But here's the real meat of the problem with that term. It is used exclusively to avoid confronting rejection. For some, like you, it eases the rejection by appropriating values elsewhere... for others it is a means of painting someone as the perpetrator and the recipient as a victim.

You see? The term has WAY too much baggage to be used in earnest. If you still wish to use it a such then be ready to take the whippings that are doled out from its usage, because the negatives of "friendzone" usage far outweighs as an informal description of a social paradigm.

Again, sorry if I offend... neither you nor her should come out from this like a bad person. You're predicament and reaction to it is perfectly understandable and very relatable. But you need to be careful of how you describe these events. "Friendzone" is not a kosher term even if it can be used to explain such a scenario, since it carries a slew of negative connotations that, if spoken in unfamiliar company, could paint a very bad picture of you.

EDIT: Sorry, a lot of errors in this post... my keyboard is acting up.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Yeah, the whole "so you think just because you're nice you are owed sex?" line never really rang true with me.

Could any of us possibly even begin to imagine the nightmarish and bizarre dystopian future that would result if both genders of the human race began sexually selected primarily for overall niceness of character as opposed to any other desirable quality in a mate?

The horror. The absolute horror.

While I am also wary of those who claim to be 'nice' or 'kindhearted' themselves, personally I believe that the human race would be a much better mob of people if we all considered 'being nicer and more kindhearted to others than the next person' to be a desirable trait in someone we want to fuck.

No. It's not going to happen, but it is a nice thought.

 

[lacktheknack]

Me and a girl were "just friends" once.

And then we were bf/gf.

And now we're friends again.

I don't understand the horrors of being friendzoned, because it's not permanent at all.

 

[generals3]

Because rejection doesn't imply she has control of her attraction. "Friendzone" does. "She rejected me," means "She said 'no' to my offer for a relationship." "She friendzoned me," means "She chose to trap me in this state where I'm only her friend and never have a chance to be anything more."

"Friendzone" blames women for their feelings. Which is a shitty thing to do.

No. It. Doesn't. There is no implication of a trap or blame at all. Some people choose to use it in such a way that it does but there isn't one intrinsically linked to the word friendzone. And many use it without said implications.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pnMWvbFpS8
=> first time I ever came in contact with the word "friendzone". And guess what no blame is being put on the woman. All the blame is actually put on the friendzoned in this particular example.

(and according to knowyourmeme that's where the word came from http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/friend-zone )

Ye gods but I'm sick of this strawman. Not a single person in this thread has told you what you can or cannot say, only that you'll be judged for how you choose to express yourself. Don't be so quick to pretend the thought-police are coming for you.

I'm not talking about "can" as in legally "can". But morally. Obviously you think using the word friendzone is "bad". And since your initial explanation would also make the use of "she rejected me" wrong as well I wouldn't call it a strawman. Just a logical implication.

 

[LostAlone]

The whole friendzone thing is complex. For the most part it really is the product of possessive people with pretty bad social skills who don't really know what romance is, but are convinced that hanging around in the peripheries of someone's life might at some point create it.

On the flip side I've known a small but non-zero number of people (male and female) who absolutely loved how they got treated as a result of being around friendzoned people, getting attention and whatever they wanted because they knew that their various suitors hadn't given up hope of one day graduating into their pants. If you run into these people, tell them to go fuck themselves.

At it's core, being in the friendzone means that you can't be bothered to look elsewhere for romance in your life; getting so committed to someone way way way before you should do. That's part of being a teenager, but what you're supposed to do is go elsewhere. Meet some new people. Change as a person. Find new and exciting things to do with your time.

No-one is ever in the friendzone because their crush put them there. They are there because they chose to stay there. You bounce off enough people, you will make some sparks. As soon as you learn to not be too precious about individual people your life improves a thousand fold. Learn to be your own person, not just with the same people in the same places every day. Go somewhere new, do something else. One new friend will introduce you to their friends, and to their friends, and to their friends.

The friendzone is in your head, and as soon as you figure that out things will improve.

Oh as a final thought, carefully phrased- Drinking and doing drugs was one of the best things I ever did. Naturally it would be irresponsible of me to suggest you young people start doing it, but my experiences of life became radically better when I did. The pursuit of intoxication was the single driving factor in almost everything I and my friends did when I was a teenager, and doing so brought me into contact with a vastly larger number of people. There's some serious therapy value of getting drunk and deciding that Jody was a ***** all along anyway.

 

[Risingblade]

When did friendzone turn from friend wanting to stay friend to random chick not wanting to put out?

 

[Random berk]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

I met a girl a short time back who I became instantly attracted to, and who I know was at least some bit attracted to me. I asked her out on the first night, and we spent the next month together, during which we had quite a bit of fun. For the first time in several years, I felt like I had a real connection with her.Then I had to leave the country for a period of time (I'm doing an MSc lasting a year, but I can get back home once a month or so, not exactly an extended tour of duty) She then said that although she wanted to still hang out with me whenever I was back home, she only wanted to be friends and that she wanted to meet other men. I was completely opposed to this idea and wanted to maintain the relationship if she would only wait a short time between return trips (and it isn't unreasonable, my first gf and I lived in different counties, had much longer times apart than this and still had a long and happy relationship for our age), but short of getting agitated about it and giving her a better reason to end it, I could only let her have her way.

So now I'm here with one less reason to go home, she's doing her own MSc at home, happy in the company of whoever else she wants, but it's ok because we're just 'friends' now. Is this not basically a friendzone situation?

EDIT: I have no doubt that you'll bring up the distance thing as a flaw in my argument, but I reiterate that if she was willing to make the same effort that I'm willing to make, this would not be a big obstacle. I can get cheap flights back to Ireland, a short distance away, and haven't got much of a life here, so I could do it every other weekend if that's what it took. There's also Christmas which we'd both be at home for, and even a number of my friends who are doing much harder degrees right now have said they want to fly over and visit me at some point, which she could also do. It's really not much of a dealbreaker as far as I can see.

 

[krazykidd]

There is no such thing as friendzoned . People need to man up and stop being afraid of rejection. Ask a girl out . 50/50 chance she says yes . If she says no , move on. How is this so hard? I swear i have never heard so much "friendzone" talk, than on this site . Guys are turning into wimps.

I met a girl a short time back who I became instantly attracted to, and who I know was at least some bit attracted to me. I asked her out on the first night, and we spent the next month together, after which time I had to leave the country for a period of time (I'm doing an MSc lasting a year, but I can get back home once a month or so, not exactly an extended tour of duty) She then said that although she wanted to still hang out with me whenever I was back home, she only wanted to be friends and that she wanted to meet other men. I was completely opposed to this idea and wanted to maintain the relationship if she would only wait a short time between return trips (and it isn't unreasonable, my first gf and I lived in different counties, had much longer times apart than this and still had a long and happy relationship for our age), but short of getting agitated about it and giving her a better reason to end it, I could only let her have her way.

So now I'm here with one less reason to go home, she's doing her own MSc at home, happy in the company of whoever else she wants, but it's ok because we're just 'friends' now. Is this not basically a friendzone situation?

I don't think that counts because you actually had the girl . Not for a long time because of circumstances. From what i understand, you asked her out , she said yes, then spent the next month seeing each other . From what i gathered about the subject that doesn't count ( i could be wrong though).

 

[Phasmal]

After hearing such bitterness from so called `nice guys` I've kind of lost all sympathy.
It's pretty damn easy to garner sympathy by pretending something was more than it was. Having it happen to you is not pleasant.
Sure. Someone not returning your feelings is hard. But you aren't `friendzoned`, you're rejected. Getting rejected hurts but lying to yourself doesn't help any.

 

[Quadocky]

I subscribe to the belief there is no such thing as the friendzone. If someone is not romantically interested in you, they are not romantically interested in you.

Fact is, on top of this we will always 'want' but sometimes we can't have what we want. Its even more difficult in the age of the internet when so many people are visible and it become easy and quick to communicate and as quick to be rebuffed and ignored.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

There is no such thing as friendzoned .

This right here is the only problem I have with arguments against.

Short of Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny, any time you say "There is no such thing," you are almost certainly wrong, especially in terms of social situations.

With 6 [i/]billion[/i] people on Earth, it's downright silly for anyone to think they can speak for every interaction between every man and woman around the world.

Men take advantage of women, women take advantage of men.

Perspective, people. Perspective.

Edit: Also, the arguments for and against are fairly dumb anyway as the word is so incredibly loosely defined, most people aren't even arguing over the same topic.

 

[TehCookie]

I hate the friendzone since it implies men and women cannot be friends and the only reason for different genders to get together is sex.

I'm willing to bet most of the people you hang out with are in the friendzone, and the feeling is mutual. Assuming you're a straight man, if one of your guy friends confessed to you what would you do? You're not attracted to men so I'd guess you'd reject them, but would you never want to see him again or would you still want to hang out just as friends? (If you're homosexual or female, switch the genders for the same idea.)

Since people are different, the person who confessed may not want to hang with someone they love but cannot be with or you may find it to awkward to hang with someone who likes you that way. I've been friendzones and I have friendzoned people, it sucks but people need move on. It's not someone's fault, sometimes shit doesn't go the way you want it to.

 

[DarthSka]

The way I define is as follows: person is friends with other person. person develops romantic feelings for that person. person pursues a romantic relationship with that person. person is rejected by other person as the other person wishes to remain friends only.

And that's pretty much it. Does it happen? Definitely. Can it lead to hurt feelings, sadness, etc? Yes, and quite understandably so. Do some take it to an even worse level by becoming bitter and making the other person seem like the bad guy/girl for not reciprocating their feelings? Sadly, yes as well. However, this is not always the case and just because some people use the term same as them does not mean they are holding a grudge or saying they were entitled to that person's love. I've had personal experience with this as a guy who 'friendzoned' a girl back in my high school days. I didn't literally tell her no, but just me asking another girl out made it clear I suppose, which led to the end of our friendship. She wasn't overly angry or bitter at me, it was just the fact that with her feelings, it hurt too much to try to maintain any other type of relationship with me. I found that sad, but also understandable. If not being with a person romantically causes too much emotional distress, it can be better to just break off all ties in an attempt to move on.

 

[J.McMillen]

As someone who has 'friendzoned' quite a few lately, I understand you. However, they aren't necessarily complaining due to entitlement. They might just really like you and wish you would reconsider.

I think this is a big part of it. That many people who complain about being 'friendzoned' feel that others won't take a step back and reconsider them as a potential interest. I've done it, met a woman who at first didn't interest me but after getting to know them, changed my mind. Unfortunately, those qualities that made me change my mind are also the reason they almost all had boyfriends or husbands.

Relationships can take time, and I think a lot of people just aren't willing to put in a little work when they other person doesn't wow them right off the bat. Maybe if people would consider going out with the person on a casual 'get to know you' date (i.e. date zero) they might find the person more interesting, or not. And if not, at least they put a little effort into their decision and didn't dismiss them outright for whatever reason.

Remember, love is blind and sometimes stupid. That's why you've got to take some chances.

 

[Feedmeketamine]

I love the friendzone, gives you time to get to know girls/boy before you bone em. I go by the philosphy that if youre my friend, i am willing to bone you, should the situation arise. However i do have some very unattractive friends but theres always my stash of viagra.

 

[Arkenangel]

That's not what the word means though. The term refers to when a person fancies another person but are considered nothing more than a friend. It's nothing to do with 'vagina slot-machine' (protip: if romance were just sex Romeo could have bought a whore and that have been the end of it)and it has everything to do with different people wanting different things.

Sure, and I have no quandary with a person being hurt by rejection. At the same time however, it is equally dishonest to present the term as *purely* meaning a genuinely lovey-dovey happy relationship. Whether you like it or not, the term has sexual connotations, and an even stronger association with the entitled idea of 'I was really nice to her, therefore I DESERVE friendship/a relationship/cuddles/whatever. Anything but her friendship. It's not the sexual aspect I have a problem with, it's the attitude that my friendship (which I very rarely offer) isn't enough for preciouskins.

The way I see it, if a person *genuinely* likes me, they will do all of that shit (spending time with me, listening to me rant, etcetcetc) because that is it's own reward. They won't expect anything in return, be it sex or a relationship.

That is the definition of a nice guy, whereas a "nice guy" always has an agenda. Kindness stops being kindness the very moment it becomes conditional.

If you're going to blame it on anything I'd start with the Disney assumption that all you have to do is be a great person and people will suddenly notice you and the insane fear of confrontation that leads people to not shoot others down cleanly.

If you're as pathetically naive to believe the above true, you deserve blame. End of.

EDIT: Can't state that enough; I don't ask people out on the basis of how likely I am to get to fuck them and I've always found it slightly depressing how many women online seem to think that's how guys work. It's almost never about sex and more out of general attraction and affection. Just to reiterate; sex isn't that big a deal to all of the men I know, it doesn't rule us like that.

In my experience, the above is absolutely true; I disagree vehemently with the perception of men being sex-obsessed and 'anything to get it'. At the same time, I reserve the right to criticize the few who see it as an inalienable right.