In Defense of Brute Strength...

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

there is a lot of criticism of the "hit him harder" type stories, just look at how Superman is seen as a 'boring' character, because he never really trains or requires magical items to destroy his villains (in the movies/cartoons anyway) he just... hits them harder, and this time it works.


Despite the kick ass speech it basically boils down to "Oh no, he's too strong - Wait, I'll just use the rest of my strength" Which kind of negates the threat of the villain in the first place, which was a criticism I have heard of the Avengers, being a team composed of very powerful people against waves of endless mooks, and with Loki not really being a major physical threat, the biggest problem they had were the nukes launched by their own side

I've always taken heroes like that in a certain way.

I mean, supposedly Superman had to train himself to always limit himself. A nightmare of his could possibly shatter the world if he thrashes about too much.

He spends his entire life to limit and limit and limit what he has, letting it out in little peeks because not only is that all that's necessary, but he doesn't know what will happen if he lets out more. How comfortable would you be walking on Earth if your arms could shatter planets, let alone what your legs could do?

OT, my favorite example of this Spiderman taking it to Firelord. Here [http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/43640/1028038-amazing_spiderman_270_20.jpg], Here [http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/43640/1028039-amazing_spiderman_270_21.jpg], and Here [http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/43640/1028040-amazing_spiderman_270_22.jpg]. It might as well been called Spiderman Limit Break. It's full of bullshit. It makes no sense. It should have never, never, NEVER happened. But spiderman went off and whooped some ass. Nice.

PS. Should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

 

[the December King]

A perfect example of this would be in FMA:B when...

Spoiler

Roy Mustang combusted the living fuck out of Envy

There's just gotta be the right tone for it if you wanna viciously destroy the evil doer. Also a bit of a plot device, like you've gotta catch em or something. It sure as hell is satisfying to watch though, the badder the villain the better,

I personally found that satisfying because I had seen the earlier (?) Full Metal in which Envy and her fellow Simulacrums were near invincible, were never really stopped that first go round, and proved their intentions time and again by slaughtering innocents and such.

But, in the context of a Horror setting, for example, a brute force solution can completely change the tone to the point that it isn't even the same genre. 'Aliens' would be a good example of that, more Sci-Fi Action than Horror, despite it's roots. My personal take on brute force in Horror is that if the protagonists beat up or easily manipulate the the antagonist I usually am no longer invested, even if the commentary is something along the lines of how far protagonists can slip into madness/evil/whatever, or "who IS the antagonist here?" type narratives.

But thats how I feel about Horror, which despite it's often crass elements, to me is usually more refined than Action.

I am more and more leaning towards not being a fan of Action movies, I am finding, and this is a good example of what I dislike.

In short, I find brute strength reckless and uncontrollable, which makes it better for a villain to use.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Yeah, it seems pretty common these days for fantasy novels these days to be Lord of The Rings clones. Involving weak characters(often teenagers) have to go on a looooong journey from point A to point B to do a thing with a thing behind the bad guys back to save the world.

Personally I wish there were more Conan The Barbarian type of stories. I never found those boring.

 

[FPLOON]

Well, first off, you have to find some way of making the immortal antagonist mortal enough for the protagonist to actually do some damage, at least... Last thing you want see is the protagonist barely lay a singe scratch on said antagonist due to them being immortal as fuck on a broken scale akin to invulnerability... The whole point of the Macguffin in the first place is so that both sides either have a change of "dying" straight outright and/or, in this case, for both sides to be at a fair-enough advantage to go blow-for-blow in the brute force category...

Besides, in most stories (I think), immortality comes with regeneration in some way, shape, or form... So, even if you could burn them down to dust, scatter the dust, and, just to be more careful, burn the dust to nothingness, you still have them still regenerating back to their original form since last time I check, we can't destroy energy, but we can convert it into something else in some way, shape, or form... unless plot says "fuck logic", in which case you're right 111% that it should just be a battle of brute strength and nothing else...

 

[Leemaster777]

I know it's been stated already, but OP has basically just described the ending to Gurren Lagann:


And that was satisfying as hell.

Personally, I think using brute force as a means of beating the final baddie is a perfectly fine way to go about things... but it's used best when it's used to signify a character's growth. Again, I think Gurren Lagann handled this kind of thing perfectly.

 

[Johnny Impact]

I'm reminded of the Devils from Ninja Scroll, Tessai and Gemma in particular.

Hitting a man made of rock is just going to break your hand. Unless of course the writer has the protagonist learn some bullshit "thousand stone smashing fist kung fu strike!" secret technique. Which didn't happen: Jubei found a way around Tessai's invulnerability using wits and accuracy, not strength. Even then, it was not he who killed Tessai, it was somebody else's sneaky power.

With a guy like Gemma you're pretty much fucked. Punching him harder simply isn't going to work. Punching him just long enough to keep him in place while a more permanent solution arrived was basically what happened. Brute force, however vigorously applied (and it was applied in quite ridiculous quantities by Jubei and Gemma both https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9lDe6lEAM4), was only a delaying tactic.

My favorite example of brute force winning is probably the end of The Matrix. Moving beyond the machine allows Neo to invalidate all programmed limits for speed, strength, and awareness. Effectively "breaking the game," he dispatches the seemingly invincible Smith with contemptuous ease. Though he is later taunted for "using all the muscles except the one that matters," it's hard to deny the effectiveness of simply beating one's opponents to death.

Also, see above post. Gurren Lagann and Determinators FTW.