In need of help: Graphic Cards.

[IrrelevantTangent]

Okay, I ran GPU-Z 0.3.4, not sure whether that's the first program or the second, but here's what it said:

Spoiler: Graphics Card

Graphics Card: Xpert 128

GPU: Rage128

Technology: 250 nm

Release Date: 1998

BIOS Version: (C) 1988-99, ATI Technologies Inc. BK3.0.2 VR001...

Device ID: 1002-5050

Subvendor: ATI (1002)

ROPs: 2

Bus Interface: PCI

Shaders: 0 Pixel/0 Vertex

DirectX Support: 6.0/SM0.0

Memory Type: DDR

Bus Width: 128 Bit

Memory Size: 16 MB

Driver Version: ati2mtag 6.14.10.6462 /XP

GPU Clock: 0 MHz

Memory: 0 MHz

Default Clock: 110 MHz

Memory: 55 MHz

ATI CrossFire: Disabled

 

[Agayek]

I have a question...how compatible is the 64-bit version of XP with 32-bit apps and games. which is every app and game that i own. i have a super beefed up rig and i want to be able to go further than 2gigs of ram. even though they ARE ddr3. can someone explain how the 64-bit xp works and what i can do about it? and do i need to do a full reformat before installing that if i get it or can i just install it over thus replacing it.

The biggest thing about it, as far as I'm aware, is that it gives you more room to allocate memory, and a handful of other things. Essentially, it frees up more room so hardware isn't fighting for space/allocation.

I'm using 64-bit vista and it works fine with 32-bit games. There are a handful of 32-bit apps that don't work, but I've yet to encounter any games where that's true.

I'm not sure how it would work with XP, but vista has this thing where it puts all your old files and folders into a "Windows.old" file in your main hard drive (C:\Windows.old\) by default.

 

[Agayek]

Oh wow that thing is old.

Lemme hit up newegg and I'll see what I can find.

Edit: Here's the cards I'd recommend

$57 ATI 3850:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102715R

$100 ATI 4830:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161260

$188 ATI 4870:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102769R


Without knowing your mobo set up, I can't be more precise, but any of those would work fine with WoW, especially the 4870. 2x 4870s in Crossfire is one of the top end GPU set ups available now. If you really don't want to spend even $60, there are probably a handful of cheaper ones, I just don't want to dig through 8 pages of stuff to find it.

Before you order anything though, make sure your motherboard has a PCI-E slot on it. All of these require that. If you have an AGP slot, you're basically SOL and stuck with what you have.

 

[RapidCrash]

Just FYI: these cards have a ton of graphics memory (way above what's needed really), which eats into address space. So if you go with them, you will basically need to use a 64-bit version of Windows. Otherwise the cards limit you to ~2GB of accessible RAM regardless of physical amount of RAM installed, hamstringing your entire machine.

Never has a person said so much for me to understand so little.. Are you saying that without a special windows whatever, there's no point in this graphics card?

Sorry, got a little technical there. Like the other guys said, don't worry about it and just make sure the Windows you get is 64-bit not 32-bit.

You would only need to spend about half as much to get over 80% of the performance of this setup, but I'm guessing your goal is to get (almost) the best you can get pre-assembled from this vendor, and you want the machine to last a good while without having to tinker with it.

Even so, looking at Chillblast's processor lineup for this box, I think you have every reason to drop down to the *lowest* processor offered and save £535. When you look at the technology in the i7 processors, the differences are 1) clock speed, 2) special tinkering features on the highest end model. Chillblast puts a manufacturer overclock on all of the processors and the resulting speeds (3.4GHz on lowest vs 3.6GHz on highest) are indistinguishable in practice. If you aren't going to tinker, that's £535 down the drain.

And drop the network card, it's snake oil. Doesn't hurt, but doesn't help either.

Well just looking at Chillblast's lineup, I would have to refute that. If I'm looking at the same thing you were, then I see an E6550 as the lowest processor. Two things: First of all clock speed is much too low, and overclocking that thing won't pull up anywhere close. Secondly, the difference between 2 and 4 cores is tremendous. Even with my E8500, I still bottleneck the system at anything lower than 3.82Ghz, and 4.62Ghz provides adequate performance, though if I was to use a graphics card as good as a 295, even THAT may bottleneck the system (since OS and other processes share the first core).

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Oh wow that thing is old.

Lemme hit up newegg and I'll see what I can find.

Yeah, I know, I'm lucky the thing actually runs Internet Explorer, but thankfully for me, I have FIOS high-speed internet so that's taken care of. It's the whole playing-computer-games bit that's hard.

 

[Theo Samaritan]

It already affects anyone who has at least 4GB of physical memory. Out of 4GB of physical memory, 3.2GB is usable on my 32-bit Vista. I have a 512MB nVidia card, and obviously the driver eats address space in 1:1 ratio to VRAM.

I was referring to on board GFX card memory, unless you know of any solo cards with 4gb of GDDR on it. Fair play on the rest, however after running some DX9 games with a 3gb memory allocation allowance in vista Im unsure about the ram tank on it.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Oh wow that thing is old.

Lemme hit up newegg and I'll see what I can find.

Edit: Here's the cards I'd recommend

$57 ATI 3850:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102715R

$100 ATI 4830:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161260

$188 ATI 4870:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102769R


Without knowing your mobo set up, I can't be more precise, but any of those would work fine with WoW, especially the 4870. 2x 4870s in Crossfire is one of the top end GPU set ups available now. If you really don't want to spend even $60, there are probably a handful of cheaper ones, I just don't want to dig through 8 pages of stuff to find it.

Before you order anything though, make sure your motherboard has a PCI-E slot on it. All of these require that. If you have an AGP slot, you're basically SOL and stuck with what you have.

Well, I did download both programs that Nutcase recommended, so is there anything in particular from the GPU-Z 0.3 program that you need me to look up?

 

[Agayek]

Well, I did download both programs that Nutcase recommended, so is there anything in particular from the GPU-Z 0.3 program that you need me to look up?

Run the CPU-Z program, not GPU-Z, and click over to the "Mainboard" tab, 3rd from the left. On the 3rd row down, it will list "Chipset". That is the information needed to find out what interface slots you have.

And surprisingly, newegg still has some AGP cards, so I'm looking up a couple of those for you if it's needed.

Edit:
http://www.bizrate.com/graphicscards/ati-xpert-128-16-mb-graphics-card--pid5101105/

Ugh. I'm not sure I can help you. The closest I can find to the slot you're using for that is an AGP 4x/8x, while you're using AGP 2x. I don't know what the compatibility between the two is, so you may just be fucked unless you get a whole new computer.

 

[not a zaar]

For example, you're buying an i7 quad core CPU for what is obviously a gaming computer, when games these days support 2 cores at most (and some of them not even that!)

Buying a MoBo with socket 1366 or the AMD equivalent would be the only sound choice now, if you want a future proof system. Buying one with LGA775, would result in having to not only replace your CPU, but also your MoBo, when the time comes for an upgrade in a year or two.

Besides, the i7 isn't that much more expensive than the high-end Core2Quad, but the performance is much better. The only big investment would be the MoBo, which, as I already said, you'd have to replace anyway if you decide to upgrade the CPU within the next two-three years.

There's no such thing as a future-proof system. It's a much wiser choice to go with LGA775 now, with a nice Core 2 like the E8400. Then in a few years when games and common apps start actually supporting quad core processors you can still use the same mobo and just put in a high end C2Q, which at that time will be a mid-range or even budget choice. These LGA775 mobos support even up to 16 gigs of DDR2 ram so it's not like you're going to have to replace them any time soon.

 

[solidstatemind]

Oh wow that thing is old.

Lemme hit up newegg and I'll see what I can find.

Edit: Here's the cards I'd recommend

$57 ATI 3850:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102715R

$100 ATI 4830:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161260

$188 ATI 4870:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102769R


Without knowing your mobo set up, I can't be more precise, but any of those would work fine with WoW, especially the 4870. 2x 4870s in Crossfire is one of the top end GPU set ups available now. If you really don't want to spend even $60, there are probably a handful of cheaper ones, I just don't want to dig through 8 pages of stuff to find it.

Before you order anything though, make sure your motherboard has a PCI-E slot on it. All of these require that. If you have an AGP slot, you're basically SOL and stuck with what you have.

EDIT: NM, you confirmed it later. But yeah, he can't use those cards. Surprisingly, there are some AGP/PCI cards that, if nothing else, have more powerful GPUs and more memory. Frankly, I'm surprised WoW doesn't look like the proverbial 'powerpoint slide show' on a Rage128

He's going to have to select something from <url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048%201069609642&name=PCI>this list or <url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048%201069609639&name=AGP%204X%2f8X>this one. But hey, the upside is that even the best will probably run ya under $100.

 

[Agayek]

WHOA WHOA WHOA! Danger Will Robinson! Small problem: his graphics interface is PCI not PCI-E.

He's going to have to select something from <url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048%201069609642&name=PCI>this list

Gah, I missed the interface on that other post.

If it's PCI, go with a $37
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131082R

Should run WoW just fine, and is nice and cheap.

All the shit I've found on the Xpert 128 though says AGP though. Bleh, the GPU-Z readout is probably more accurate.

 

[solidstatemind]

WHOA WHOA WHOA! Danger Will Robinson! Small problem: his graphics interface is PCI not PCI-E.

He's going to have to select something from <url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048%201069609642&name=PCI>this list

Gah, I missed the interface on that other post.

If it's PCI, go with a $37
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131082R

Should run WoW just fine, and is nice and cheap.

All the shit I've found on the Xpert 128 though says AGP though. Bleh, the GPU-Z readout is probably more accurate.

Well, tbh, all the 'Rage128' GPUs I normally see are integrated on the motherboard (and thus connected via the PCI bus-- that is usually only on business-class servers these days, however), which means that he probably has a AGP slot on that mobo, but it's unpopulated. The CPU-Z, you should be able to find out for sure if he has an AGP slot or not. But tbh, the difference in performance between using the AGP slot or a PCI slot is going to be minor at this point.

 

[Nutcase]

Even so, looking at Chillblast's processor lineup for this box, I think you have every reason to drop down to the *lowest* processor offered and save £535. When you look at the technology in the i7 processors, the differences are 1) clock speed, 2) special tinkering features on the highest end model. Chillblast puts a manufacturer overclock on all of the processors and the resulting speeds (3.4GHz on lowest vs 3.6GHz on highest) are indistinguishable in practice. If you aren't going to tinker, that's £535 down the drain.

Well just looking at Chillblast's lineup, I would have to refute that. If I'm looking at the same thing you were, then I see an E6550 as the lowest processor. Two things: First of all clock speed is much too low, and overclocking that thing won't pull up anywhere close. Secondly, the difference between 2 and 4 cores is tremendous. Even with my E8500, I still bottleneck the system at anything lower than 3.82Ghz, and 4.62Ghz provides adequate performance, though if I was to use a graphics card as good as a 295, even THAT may bottleneck the system (since OS and other processes share the first core).

The lowest option I saw on that box was the i7 920 overclocked to 3.4GHz, so I have no idea what you were looking at.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Well, I did download both programs that Nutcase recommended, so is there anything in particular from the GPU-Z 0.3 program that you need me to look up?

Run the CPU-Z program, not GPU-Z, and click over to the "Mainboard" tab, 3rd from the left. On the 3rd row down, it will list "Chipset". That is the information needed to find out what interface slots you have.

And surprisingly, newegg still has some AGP cards, so I'm looking up a couple of those for you if it's needed.

Edit:
http://www.bizrate.com/graphicscards/ati-xpert-128-16-mb-graphics-card--pid5101105/

Ugh. I'm not sure I can help you. The closest I can find to the slot you're using for that is an AGP 4x/8x, while you're using AGP 2x. I don't know what the compatibility between the two is, so you may just be fucked unless you get a whole new computer.

1. Okay, now running CPU-Z instead.

2. Okay, for 'Chipset', it says:

VIA, PT800 (VT8754), Rev. 82.

3. Are you sure that's necessary? For the WoW free trial that I've been using- not that that's the account I'm going to upgrade or anything since I recovered my higher-level old account- things have been running *kinda* smoothly with all the graphics options turned down as low as they can go; there's just some lag when walking, running, or other activites outside, and inside, the problem isn't as bad. I really don't want to have to spend $1000-2000 on a whole new computer...

 

[Agayek]

1. Okay, now running CPU-Z instead.

2. Okay, for 'Chipset', it says:

VIA, PT800 (VT8754), Rev. 82.

3. Are you sure that's necessary? For the WoW free trial that I've been using- not that that's the account I'm going to upgrade or anything since I recovered my higher-level old account- things have been running *kinda* smoothly with all the graphics options turned down as low as they can go; there's just some lag when walking, running, or other activites outside, and inside, the problem isn't as bad. I really don't want to have to spend $1000-2000 on a whole new computer...

It's only to find out for sure which interface ports you have with your video cards.

If I read what I found correctly, the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131082R should work fine. It's a $37 ATI 2400. You should be good with that. Absolute worst case scenario, I missed something completely and you have to return the card, and newegg has amazing RMA/return policies, so you'll be fine.

 

[RapidCrash]

Even so, looking at Chillblast's processor lineup for this box, I think you have every reason to drop down to the *lowest* processor offered and save £535. When you look at the technology in the i7 processors, the differences are 1) clock speed, 2) special tinkering features on the highest end model. Chillblast puts a manufacturer overclock on all of the processors and the resulting speeds (3.4GHz on lowest vs 3.6GHz on highest) are indistinguishable in practice. If you aren't going to tinker, that's £535 down the drain.

Well just looking at Chillblast's lineup, I would have to refute that. If I'm looking at the same thing you were, then I see an E6550 as the lowest processor. Two things: First of all clock speed is much too low, and overclocking that thing won't pull up anywhere close. Secondly, the difference between 2 and 4 cores is tremendous. Even with my E8500, I still bottleneck the system at anything lower than 3.82Ghz, and 4.62Ghz provides adequate performance, though if I was to use a graphics card as good as a 295, even THAT may bottleneck the system (since OS and other processes share the first core).

The lowest option I saw on that box was the i7 920 overclocked to 3.4GHz, so I have no idea what you were looking at.

I was probably looking at a different setup then. Either way, the i7 920 is pretty good. I think that once games start utilizing 3 or more cores, those quads are going to start shining.

 

[Nutcase]

The_Oracle, please check these from CPU-Z and post here:
CPU tab -> Processor -> Name
Memory tab -> General -> Size

From the chipset info you posted, I'm guessing you have a Pentium4 processor, which is pretty much enough for WoW. But there's a good chance you are short on memory and should get some along with the graphics upgrade. WoW needs at least 1GB to behave well.

Also, for your information - should it come to computer replacement, you don't need to spend $1000-2000. Even a $600 Mac mini, tiny and not built with games in mind, will run WoW decently. A $600 PC optimized for gaming can be good for *new* games, and will run WoW with full detail at any resolution.

My own computer, built a year ago, would have cost about $700 for the performance. It only ended up costing more because I was concerned with making it totally silent and looking good with the rest of my interior.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Okay:

Processor Name: Intel Celeron 325
Size: 256 MBytes

 

[Nutcase]

Okay:

Processor Name: Intel Celeron 325
Size: 256 MBytes

As I thought. Processor is fine for WoW, but you are badly bottlenecked by both memory and graphics. In addition to a new graphics card, you want this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820159108
Takes you to 1.25GB or 1.12GB depending on whether you have a free slot or if you need to toss an old memory chip out of the way.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Okay:

Processor Name: Intel Celeron 325
Size: 256 MBytes

As I thought. Processor is fine for WoW, but you are badly bottlenecked by both memory and graphics. In addition to a new graphics card, you want this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820159108
Takes you to 1.25GB or 1.12GB depending on whether you have a free slot or if you need to toss an old memory chip out of the way.

So what do you think are the cheapest options for reducing or negating the lag problem? Ideally I'd like to spend $40 or less.