In Place of Innovation or Innovation in Place of? : A Review of RPG Game Mistakes

[CZTM]

The RPG world is a realm that I often enjoy delving into, possibly in an attempt to escape my current situations and actually "live" in another world, perhaps. One with a more stable economy built on gold coins or gil.

But I digress. The RPG world is constantly filled with horrible design choices in the modern day, and I've grown quite tired of it. While game designers are more than likely never to stray from wildly sucessful games and their mechanics, I still have the desire (this being Christmas Eve after all) to point out the flaws most of these genre-based games make.

#5: Spam-Inducing Attacks

Nothing makes me more irritated than attacks given to characters in video games, then only using a handful of them throughout the entire game. Case in Point: Final Fantasy X. This game is one that I hold up as the most spammy gameplay in my RPG collection. Roughly ten to twenty minutes into the game, you receive the Summoner Yuna (one of the main characters). After this point, you receive the ability to summon creatures known as Aeons. From there on in, you can almost summon for ever single battle after that (with only a few moderate exceptions when magic can't be used), and win with ease. Especially after each "level" of gameplay, when you obtain new Aeons at different temples across the land. This is the annoyance of most RPG's that I find myself with. You lean one attack, and you use it over and over again to end battles. It irritates me that game developers continue this. While most RPG's aren't based in realism, it would still be nice to have some real-life mechanics in the game. For example, if you were fighting a school-yard bully, and he continuously kept hitting you in the head, I'm sure at some point you'd attempt to move your head. I want an RPG like that. Bosses and monsters that get less damage over time if you use the same attack, and a more wide variety of spells and special abilities to use.

#4 Cut-scene Inducing Agony

I'll admit it. I love cut-scenes. I love them probably more than the actual gameplay itself. But when I'm in the middle of playing a game, it does not help to cut away a player from the controls, zoom in and have a ten minute conversation. It's irritating, especially when you're close to the "big boss" that you're dying to fight. Case in Point: Final Fantasy IV & Persona 3. Each of these games yank controls away from the player at random points on the game world, and cuts to long and usually unskippable cutscenes that take up a lot of time. Persona 3 is especially bad, as it turns into a reading adventure with long streams of text. However, with the vast popularity of the high-quality FMS's in games such as Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid series, game developers will often try to emulate that in hopes of obtaining the same level of success .

#3: Leveling Up For Dummies

Grinding will often be an inevital part of gameplay in RPG's. In fact, it's one of the many reasons that RPG fans play the game itself. However, sometimes the grinding is just ridiculous, with enemies giving often a pitiful amount of experience points for a level up. Even the stronger enemies often give the same amount of experience as weaker enemies, which asks "what?s the point?". Case In Point: The World Ends with You. This game aggravated me in many ways, but none more than this actual reason. I would fight a horde of enemies, all incredibly powerful and strong, barely slipping by, only to gain a paltry amount of experience points to level up my attack badges. Then I'd go fight some weak and pitiful enemy and get roughly the same amount. If games are going to require us to level up in order to keep up with the level of enemies, at least have a good experience curve. Although cliche, I'd love to "get what I paid for".

#2: Story and Gameplay as Opossing Forces

This often "grinds my gears" if you'll forgive the insipid Family Guy reference. I briefly mentioned this earlier, as I hated how the cut scenes in games would take control away from us. This is exactly what I meant in this segment. Most RPG's keep the story aspects safely away from the gameplay aspects. Case in point : Virtually Every RPG does this. The story refuses to be part of the gameplay or vice versa. This seriously needs to change in some way, shape or form. I'm so sick of playing a game, only to then stop playing the game and then listen to the story part of it. A remedy to this solution would be (as I refer to it) as the "Final Fantasy VI" method of gameplay. I suppose Final Fantasy IV did it as well, but VI stuck out to me. Often times, the story was stuck in the actual gameplay. One scene that stood out in particular was a scene where a side-character goes into a fight, and text goes by while he's fighting. Thus, we get the action of the battle as well as plot advancement. Granted, I suppose this could be considered the same as a cut scene before we had cut scenes, but at least we still had a moderate amount of control during the cut scenes.

#1: No More Heroes?

Seriously. I'm so sick of each RPG I'm playing having horrible characters and horrible dialogue from them. Let's review the characters from some of the higher rated "characters" in some of the "famous" RPG's. Cloud from Final Fantasy VII was an angst-ridden character, doing everything because his head was "clouded" with false memories. In fact, relationships he once thought he had with those around him were actually never real in the first place. Tidus from Final Fantasy X. His only real backstory was that he had serious daddy issues, and cried a lot. These are not high-end characters. These are quick, cliche copouts from the writing staff. You want to talk about good and well rounded characters? Let's head back a few years ago to good ol' days before discs. Final Fantasy VI had a whole cast of characters to back them up in terms of heroes. Each hero had a unique backstory and motivation to push them forward (although I will admit that the villains were less than compelling in any manner). Chrono Trigger also will stay in my mind forever. Like FFVI, Chrono Trigger was full of heroes that will forever stay in my mind for the rest of my life. Each of them were well characterized, had amazing backstories and amazing adventures. If anything, I want new heroes that will renew my faith in virtues of heroes past.

I know what many of you are going to post. That I spammed the Square Enix and Atlus RPG's, and ignored many of the others. However, there's a reason for that. These series are the ones that I believe are slowly corrupting the entire RPG market. I love the Final Fantasy Series, and Persona is one of my all time favorite games. However, they make horrible design choices continuously, and that in turn (because of their wild success) will influence other designers and how they make their games. This is true in any genre. The world of video games needs new ideas and new innovation for it to find new wings and fly higher in so many different manners.

 

[Dechef]

I agree especially with #5, I just hate it when you're given a crapload of abilities but you're forced into using just a few because they're way more powerful and or efficient.
I don't think the AI is smart enough for this real-life mechanic example of yours, but there are plenty of other ways...

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Interesting discussion of what RPG's do wrong.

Personally I have very few gripes about Cutsceny storytelling, but the time for improvement is upon us and something needs to change.

I definitely agree with your appraisal of "spam attacks," and I've always preferred games where every ability can be useful.

 

[Ronwue]

I am not entirely sure but all these are JRPGs, and I won't go so far as to say that they are all bad, I haven't strayed in that area so much, but it's a bit presumptuous to characterize a whole gender of games on accounts of a small number of them. Especially since your post seems to float only around FF and Personna.

I do agree with most of your points tho, the way that RPGs are developing is worrying. It really has been a while since I saw and RPG I really enjoyed. Sadly developers don't read the escapist.

 

[51gunner]

In reply to the OP:

#5: You're on to something with a system of diminishing returns on the same attack used over and over, but ultimately somebody works out the math and finds the best means of taking an enemy's HP from 100% to 0%. I'd like to use an MMO for an example that I'm familiar with: World of Warcraft. Pick any class, and someone has found the best means of dealing damage, or healing build, or tanking, etc.
It's very hard to avoid having a 'best', and if there is a 'best', someone will find it and it will be used. Still, diminishing returns is a good idea.

#4: I agree wholeheartedly. Developers need to remember that people are playing a game, not watching a movie. Sometimes a cutscene is the best way to deal with the story, but when you consider that both Bioshock and Half Life avoid them entirely (and are well praised), it's demonstrable that removing them entirely is possible. Taking control away from the player is frustrating.

#3: Grinding sucks. An RPG that isn't an MMO should avoid 'grind' entirely, in my opinion. It should be possible at all times to reach the necessary level without labouring pointlessly in immersion-breaking grind. FF7 (a game I've observed, but not really played) completely lost my interest when the whole "planet will be destroyed soon" plot was delayed incessantly for minigames, chocobo breeding, and endless random battles.
A system like Oblivion's was an interesting experiment, but became ridiculous when the game was beatable (and easily exploitable) at level one.

#2: This is largely why I don't take to JRPG's too often.

#1: This is another reason why I don't take to JRPG's too often: I despise the characters. Hell, Jack from Bioshock was better characterized and he doesn't say anything past the intro, and you can see his face all of a couple times in the whole game. I've been told FF x-2 was a particularly bad example, but I've never seen it first hand. It comes down to the point that gaming comes down to playing an ideal role (fulfilling a fantasy), and VERY few people want to be some whinging emo piece of protohuman crap. Antiheroes are fine, if only from the rule of badass. But whinging emo-child? BAH.

 

[CZTM]

Thank you for all the feedback.


"Well now this feels like a FFVI character love letter"

- Pretty much that to be honest. I will raise Final Fantasy VI to be the last "proper" final fantasy game. Once they went 3D, everything went crap wrong. In fact, that game had some of my favorite video game heroes of all time. Granted, like I stated, the villains suck in characterization (being evil for the sake of being evil), but I will accept that because everything else was done very well.

" I've been told FF x-2 was a particularly bad example, but I've never seen it first hand."

- Yes. yes it was bad. Very very bad. It took the one only good character in that game (Yuna), and turned her into a whiny twat. Seriously, I about crapped my pants when I saw the opening sequence when it first came out. It took the serious, down-to-earth religious child and had her singing in a skimpy outfit (later battling in other skimpy outfits), screwing everything up.

"I am not entirely sure but all these are JRPGs, and I won't go so far as to say that they are all bad, I haven't strayed in that area so much, but it's a bit presumptuous to characterize a whole gender of games on accounts of a small number of them. Especially since your post seems to float only around FF and Personna."

- The point of the post was to show the stink in the RPG genre. Square Enix sticks out in my mind as the hugest stink in the industry at the moment, so I characterized around that company. Granted, I should have gone into other companies, but the Final Fantasy Series is the most well known series, and people would more than likely know what I'm talking about in lieu of a hidden gem that people probably wouldn't know or have played.

I'll keep all of that in mind for future reviews, as I plan to have a genre-based review of FPS games, adventure games and all the ones that I find interesting. Thank you for all of your comments, and a Merry Christmas to you all (if don't celebrate Christmas, then Happy Holidays).

 

[wahi]

The RPG world is a realm that I often enjoy delving into, possibly in an attempt to escape my current situations and actually "live" in another world, perhaps. One with a more stable economy built on gold coins or gil.

But I digress. The RPG world is constantly filled with horrible design choices in the modern day, and I've grown quite tired of it. While game designers are more than likely never to stray from wildly sucessful games and their mechanics, I still have the desire (this being Christmas Eve after all) to point out the flaws most of these genre-based games make.

#5: Spam-Inducing Attacks

Nothing makes me more irritated than attacks given to characters in video games, then only using a handful of them throughout the entire game. Case in Point: Final Fantasy X. This game is one that I hold up as the most spammy gameplay in my RPG collection. Roughly ten to twenty minutes into the game, you receive the Summoner Yuna (one of the main characters). After this point, you receive the ability to summon creatures known as Aeons. From there on in, you can almost summon for ever single battle after that (with only a few moderate exceptions when magic can't be used), and win with ease. Especially after each "level" of gameplay, when you obtain new Aeons at different temples across the land. This is the annoyance of most RPG's that I find myself with. You lean one attack, and you use it over and over again to end battles. It irritates me that game developers continue this. While most RPG's aren't based in realism, it would still be nice to have some real-life mechanics in the game. For example, if you were fighting a school-yard bully, and he continuously kept hitting you in the head, I'm sure at some point you'd attempt to move your head. I want an RPG like that. Bosses and monsters that get less damage over time if you use the same attack, and a more wide variety of spells and special abilities to use.

#4 Cut-scene Inducing Agony

I'll admit it. I love cut-scenes. I love them probably more than the actual gameplay itself. But when I'm in the middle of playing a game, it does not help to cut away a player from the controls, zoom in and have a ten minute conversation. It's irritating, especially when you're close to the "big boss" that you're dying to fight. Case in Point: Final Fantasy IV & Persona 3. Each of these games yank controls away from the player at random points on the game world, and cuts to long and usually unskippable cutscenes that take up a lot of time. Persona 3 is especially bad, as it turns into a reading adventure with long streams of text. However, with the vast popularity of the high-quality FMS's in games such as Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid series, game developers will often try to emulate that in hopes of obtaining the same level of success .

#3: Leveling Up For Dummies

Grinding will often be an inevital part of gameplay in RPG's. In fact, it's one of the many reasons that RPG fans play the game itself. However, sometimes the grinding is just ridiculous, with enemies giving often a pitiful amount of experience points for a level up. Even the stronger enemies often give the same amount of experience as weaker enemies, which asks "what?s the point?". Case In Point: The World Ends with You. This game aggravated me in many ways, but none more than this actual reason. I would fight a horde of enemies, all incredibly powerful and strong, barely slipping by, only to gain a paltry amount of experience points to level up my attack badges. Then I'd go fight some weak and pitiful enemy and get roughly the same amount. If games are going to require us to level up in order to keep up with the level of enemies, at least have a good experience curve. Although cliche, I'd love to "get what I paid for".

#2: Story and Gameplay as Opossing Forces

This often "grinds my gears" if you'll forgive the insipid Family Guy reference. I briefly mentioned this earlier, as I hated how the cut scenes in games would take control away from us. This is exactly what I meant in this segment. Most RPG's keep the story aspects safely away from the gameplay aspects. Case in point : Virtually Every RPG does this. The story refuses to be part of the gameplay or vice versa. This seriously needs to change in some way, shape or form. I'm so sick of playing a game, only to then stop playing the game and then listen to the story part of it. A remedy to this solution would be (as I refer to it) as the "Final Fantasy VI" method of gameplay. I suppose Final Fantasy IV did it as well, but VI stuck out to me. Often times, the story was stuck in the actual gameplay. One scene that stood out in particular was a scene where a side-character goes into a fight, and text goes by while he's fighting. Thus, we get the action of the battle as well as plot advancement. Granted, I suppose this could be considered the same as a cut scene before we had cut scenes, but at least we still had a moderate amount of control during the cut scenes.

#1: No More Heroes?

Seriously. I'm so sick of each RPG I'm playing having horrible characters and horrible dialogue from them. Let's review the characters from some of the higher rated "characters" in some of the "famous" RPG's. Cloud from Final Fantasy VII was an angst-ridden character, doing everything because his head was "clouded" with false memories. In fact, relationships he once thought he had with those around him were actually never real in the first place. Tidus from Final Fantasy X. His only real backstory was that he had serious daddy issues, and cried a lot. These are not high-end characters. These are quick, cliche copouts from the writing staff. You want to talk about good and well rounded characters? Let's head back a few years ago to good ol' days before discs. Final Fantasy VI had a whole cast of characters to back them up in terms of heroes. Each hero had a unique backstory and motivation to push them forward (although I will admit that the villains were less than compelling in any manner). Chrono Trigger also will stay in my mind forever. Like FFVI, Chrono Trigger was full of heroes that will forever stay in my mind for the rest of my life. Each of them were well characterized, had amazing backstories and amazing adventures. If anything, I want new heroes that will renew my faith in virtues of heroes past.

I know what many of you are going to post. That I spammed the Square Enix and Atlus RPG's, and ignored many of the others. However, there's a reason for that. These series are the ones that I believe are slowly corrupting the entire RPG market. I love the Final Fantasy Series, and Persona is one of my all time favorite games. However, they make horrible design choices continuously, and that in turn (because of their wild success) will influence other designers and how they make their games. This is true in any genre. The world of video games needs new ideas and new innovation for it to find new wings and fly higher in so many different manners.

hey op nice post. here are the examples that i love the most to cite.
#5 in neverwinter nights 2, you get qara a sorcerer and once she joins your party you've effectively won the game, especially if you are yourself playing as a sorcerer, just keep spamming large aoe fireballs and stuff.
#4 bioware are the worst offenders in this case. in every game that i have played, that was published by them, there was just so much verbal diarrhoea(so to say)
#3 leveling up is either too slow, jrpg's especially, or too fast, fallout3 on very hard. wats it with story quests giving thousands of xp all at once? however the aforementioned neverwinter nights 2 is rather nice here as the game has virtually no grinding.
#2 almost every rpg as op said.
#1 the hero backstories are so lame(for lack of a better word). every story i have played is always so cliched. except maybe for Kotor. darth friggin revan. wow. but then they went and fucked that up in kotor 2 with all the shite about the exile or whatever. the lamest of course is oblivion. a prisoner again and in a cell too. atleast the guy in the cell facing you gets wat he deserves. make fun of me will ya? i mean morrowind was a real proper story, even though you were a prisoner in that too.

 

[CmdrGoob]

Good list. It's the combination of both that is particularly bad. I can stick with a game with clunky gameplay if it has a good story or vice versa, but when the gameplay is grind & spam and the main characters are lame unlikable cliches then the whole thing is in serious trouble.

 

[xitel]

These are exactly the reasons I HATE JRPGs. Seriously. I'm sick and tired of them. I don't mind grinding in some games, if I can actually do something while I grind. Like shoot enemies with guns. Not hit the X button to click "Attack".

I have one RPG for you which eliminates the top four of your concerns in one clean sweep.

Fallout.

It's built around a completely different base to the JRPGs that you reference here.

Note that Fallout is not a JRPG. that's why it fixes the problems that JRPGs have.

 

[ZeroMachine]

#4 bioware are the worst offenders in this case. in every game that i have played, that was published by them, there was just so much verbal diarrhoea(so to say)

Actually, his point was that they never combine cutscenes with gameplay. Bioware games make cutscenes and conversations an integral part of the gameplay. Say one thing wrong and you might lose something, or someone. But, I will agree. They talk a LOOOOOOOOOOOT.

 

[wahi]

#4 bioware are the worst offenders in this case. in every game that i have played, that was published by them, there was just so much verbal diarrhoea(so to say)

Actually, his point was that they never combine cutscenes with gameplay. Bioware games make cutscenes and conversations an integral part of the gameplay. Say one thing wrong and you might lose something, or someone. But, I will agree. They talk a LOOOOOOOOOOOT.

oh yeah right i missed that. the worst thing is that there are times in each bioware game, where, there will be a long dialogue and you'll get attcked promptly afterwards, at times even by your own team members. and if its the first time you're playing the game aaand you have no clue that it will come to a fight and you promptly get killed. cheap, very cheap. and they use this teammates turning their back on you in almost every game they make

 

[Izakflashman]

Good review. Although it felt far to Yahtzee in #2. And I'm glad you made that last statement at the end. Or it would have given me something to moan at you about. Ha ha. But it is true sadly that these games will have some sort of effect on future RPGs.

The hero's point you were making, I always just past it off as being a Japanese thing to do. Thinking their all lofty up there with their feelings, when it just comes out looking like drivvel.
I never had to do to much grinding in TWEWY, I felt kinda bad sometimes that I didn't. I always managed to squeak by. Every now and again I would kill a whole bunch, but it never felt like a grind per say.

 

[JMeganSnow]

A system like Oblivion's was an interesting experiment, but became ridiculous when the game was beatable (and easily exploitable) at level one.

You cannot "beat" Oblivion at level 1, as there is a quest that is part of the main quest line that *requires* your character to be at least level 2.

The main thing that bothers me about Oblivion is that the main plot feels like it's taking place in an entirely different world from all the other plot lines and side quests. You're told repeatedly that time is of the essence, yet nothing happens if you wander off and do other things for however long it suits you. I think that if a game mentions time limits at all in any way, they should either take it seriously OR have no obvious in game time passage (i.e. time only passes during cut scenes or between events, but when you're in control it's the same day that just happens to be particularly full of activities).

They *could* have integrated the entire thing beautifully with just a few changes. For instance, at the beginning, instead of going through the lengthy and tedious intro where they introduce the main plot and you watch the Emperor getting killed, you could have just *found the corpse with the amulet* and no clue as to where to go or what to do with it--and no one to tell you, either. That would have led much more plausibly to you climbing out of the sewers and just wandering off to explore, since you really wouldn't have any other idea what to do.

The other plot points could have been similarly served by you stumbling on them rather than being herded into them by NPC's and journal entries, and the characters insisting that you needed to *hurry* would have retained verisimilitude--because you WERE hurrying BY adventuring and exploring to try and find what they needed. Instead, with the lead-by-the-nose method, you wound up either rushing through the plot without really enjoying the game or putting off *the end of the world* more or less indefinitely so you could go hunt rats and collect treasure.

I'd like to see more evidence of this sort of thought on the part of developers. Mass Effect had a monstrously annoying situation where you can get an entire description of the Rachni (including a picture!) before you encounter them, but when you DO finally find them your character is still "duh, I don't know what those are!" YOU HAVE A FREAKIN' PHOTOGRAPH IN YOUR FREAKIN' JOURNAL YOU 'TARD!!!

And how many times have you played The Hero or The Leader--yet you're still being bossed around by your subordinates because your character doesn't know anything about anything? There are more ways to learn about a game world than going up to NPC's and saying "Tell me about frogs." "How do the frogs work?" "Can you give me a frog tutorial?"

 

[wilsonscrazybed]

Much more of an essay, moving to gaming discussion.