In Regards to Wild West

[Zontar]

And Zontar seems to be able to take it.

That's an understatement, I honestly enjoyed those threads because each one was funny in their own way.

 

[n0e]

Hello all.

As some of you may have noticed, the Wild West sub-forum is no longer accessible. This is not a glitch, nothing Defy did, but something that we, as a moderation team, have decided to do, and this was something that was not done lightly nor without group consideration and discussion.

Yes, there was a thread a while back to ask the community their thoughts and feelings about what to be done about WW. It was decided to let it be, and let users post how they wish since it was conveyed to us that users were having fun in there and it was an outlet they really appreciated.

However, due to recent threads that range from borderline harassment to outright bullying, we have decided to close it off. What was originally a sub-forum for topic-less threads, whimsy fun, and random shenanigans has now turned vitriolic and unacceptable. It has now turned into a place that some users feel that they can now get away with this behavior and consequences will not happen due to the lawlessness of the sub-forum.

Not anymore, nor will it come back.

Again, this was a decision that wasn't made lightly nor without serious input from the whole moderation team. That being said, if there are threads in WW that should be moved to other forums so that they can still be continued posting in, please do let either myself, or another member of the moderation team know and we will be more than happy to do so.

Cheers.

This is great news! I wish I was able to do it during my tenure.

*glares at Defy management*

So now that its gone we can expect to see you around a lot more, driving interesting threads and making OT a fun place to be, right? ... Right?

Realtalk this is my primary complaint about the whole deal. I barely care about the removal of the ww beyond the fact that responses to anime threads will now be less interesting.

The thing that does kind of get me is that we've got this clump of users, the current CM and many former contributers among them, that really wanted WW gone because it was bad for the site. Its gone now, so are those people gonna get here and start doing stuff to make the forums thrive now that the bad place is gone? Of course not.

I dunno why people with no skin in the game have such powerful opinions on a private subforum of a site they don't use anymore. But this is it, the dragon is dead, killed by our dear blue warriors. Its safe to come out! So is anybody gonna do anything ooorrrr....

I don't know who's messing with you, but I'm no longer an official spokesperson for Defy and the Escapist. I'm assuming you're referring to me because there was never an appointed replacement after my contract with Defy expired?

Wild West was a social experiment that was thrust onto the site without any discussion or feedback from those who frequent it. I was informed of the additional forum the day of its launch and asked to "keep an eye on it." That, along with the idea of a moderatorless forum, were the reasons why the moderators and myself at the time were against its introduction. So much so that one of the veteran members of the moderator team left because they were afraid it would just turn into a haven for bashing moderators and their decisions.

The reason it stayed open during its initial weeks of use is that I gave it positive feedback or rather neutral feedback to my superiors who created it. The reason being is I anticipated it to be on par with 4chan or other websites that are far less worried about posted content. However, most of the posts at the time were the equivalent of calling someone a "doo-doo head!" instead of using the more vulgar term, so I didn't see the harm of how it was used by the community. Of course, that was then. It, like anything else, evolved into something more and became a headache for the volunteer's who are still around doing their damnedest to keep this place thriving for as long as Defy allows them to.

 

[EvilRoy]

This is great news! I wish I was able to do it during my tenure.

*glares at Defy management*

So now that its gone we can expect to see you around a lot more, driving interesting threads and making OT a fun place to be, right? ... Right?

Realtalk this is my primary complaint about the whole deal. I barely care about the removal of the ww beyond the fact that responses to anime threads will now be less interesting.

The thing that does kind of get me is that we've got this clump of users, the current CM and many former contributers among them, that really wanted WW gone because it was bad for the site. Its gone now, so are those people gonna get here and start doing stuff to make the forums thrive now that the bad place is gone? Of course not.

I dunno why people with no skin in the game have such powerful opinions on a private subforum of a site they don't use anymore. But this is it, the dragon is dead, killed by our dear blue warriors. Its safe to come out! So is anybody gonna do anything ooorrrr....

I don't know who's messing with you, but I'm no longer an official spokesperson for Defy and the Escapist. I'm assuming you're referring to me because there was never an appointed replacement after my contract with Defy expired?

Wild West was a social experiment that was thrust onto the site without any discussion or feedback from those who frequent it. I was informed of the additional forum the day of its launch and asked to "keep an eye on it." That's the reason why the moderators and myself at the time were against its introduction. So much so that one of the veteran members of the moderator team left because they were afraid it would just turn into a haven for bashing moderators and their decisions.

The reason it stayed open during its initial weeks of use is that I gave it positive feedback or rather neutral feedback to my superiors who created it. The reason being is I anticipated it to be on par with 4chan or other websites that are far less worried about posted content. However, most of the posts at the time were the equivalent of calling someone a "doo-doo head!" instead of using the more vulgar term, so I didn't see the harm of how it was used by the community. Of course, that was then. It, like anything else, evolved into something more and became a headache for the volunteer's who are still around doing their damnedest to keep this place thriving for as long as Defy allows them to.

I'm responding to you basically you are what I expect to be an unfortunate norm when it comes to reactions about the wild west being gone, rather than as any official capacity you have now or in the past. You weren't really around while the WW existed after you left your position, you're here for a moment or two now, you probably aren't going to be here in a couple days. I don't hold anything against you for that, god knows I'm not making an effort to do much positive on this site, and I have no real intention to alter that inertia.

I'm speaking in reference to the fact that we've got a lot of people (at the time of the vote, and now a few but less at the time of dissolution) that had a lot to say about the WW despite not really interacting with the forums at large for a long time. If I actually believed killing the WW or R&P as some have suggested would actually help inject some life into the site I would have sharpened the axe myself. Now that the axe is down, I really want to think a lot of those people are going to come back to the site, as regular users or as new blue/gold members, and help things out. Whether that help comes in the form of extra hands on moderation, or just regular old posts injecting some life into a slow dry forum. New topics, new opinions etc.

But we all know that ain't happening, and I think that's disappointing. The objections were on moral grounds, maybe with some thought to the health of the site, but thought in the manner of "thoughts and prayers" as opposed to "being the positive change you want to see".

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Though I do not think I ever posted anything there that could not really be posted elsewhere, I am sad for it to go because it allowed for a space where people could feel free to speak openly about their opinions for better or worse without hindrance. Though I may have felt more at liberty to speak openly, I actually enjoyed seeing what other people said when they were not "worried" about their reply being policed. I usually posted things there that I wanted peoples honest open opinions on without them feeling the need to hold back to help me better understand a perspective that I often have difficulty understanding. It is a good thing to have people discussing opposing viewpoints, it is when they stop discussing matters all together, or feel that they are not able to talk about things that people should worry. Yes, some people said/did some awful things there that I chose to ignore/not participate in for the most part but I do not think that warrants throwing the baby out with the bath water. I understand why they felt it "for the best", but still wish there was an alternative to completely shutting it down.

I'm sad that Saelune can no longer tell off chocolate pickles in the call out thread.

And I was waiting for to respond to the trans thread.

Why? That topic made them no friends. Even people who don't like me defended me.

If anything, I'd care more to respond to StatusNil's misconception that I am going to be secretly unpunished. Cause uh, has not happened yet. I mean hey, I got a warning around the same time another user made a callout topic against me in R&P. Did THEY get in trouble? No. Thread locked, but no warning.

No, I am not in bed with the mods, certainly not these days anyways. There was a brief time where everyone was getting leniency though, but that passed.

At the top of the Off Topic forum they have this thread:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1027789-IMPORTANT-READ-THIS-ANNOUNCEMENT-LINK-TO-NEW-APPEALS-SYSTEM-REPAIR-YOUR-HEALTH-BAR-HERE

The health bar marks used to drop off on their own after 6 months with no warnings. After 6 months one mark would drop if you stayed out of trouble. That stopped working so now you have to email them and tell them to look at your account to do it manually if it bothers you and you want it corrected.

( Off topic: I have been wondering where you went after I got back glad to at least see you poking your nose around.

Awwww, man. I never got a callout thread made against me. And I tried so hard.

Thanks, Obama.

I guess we are not "controversial enough" to get a call out thread. Maybe we should be more "edgy" or like drunk post or something. XD

As was done with Wynn, effort should have been made remove those trouble makers. It feels an awful lot like this was the plan all along given it's something people in charge have been trying to do repeatedly.

Wynn's case was an extreme situation because he was literally breaking the site. They can't simply "remove" the troublemakers because the entire point of Wild West was that it had no moderation aside from removing any porn, illegal content, or site breaking. Do you not remember the response to Wynn's Pub Club being revoked??? People were going all "Well if they can just revoke Pub Club like that then what else can they do???"

Nonsense.

His posting of HTML in posts was done months before he had his PubClub privileges revoked, was suspended and subsequently banned. He stopped this behavior after having been told not to do it anymore. He wasn't removed from the site because he was a danger to the site, although it makes for a convenient excuse, apparently.

I thought he was banned due to them telling if he posted one more auto play video that he would be banned and he did it anyways after the warning he received due to spam posting tons of autoplay videos in them that were causing problems.

But then again, I wasn't really keeping close track of everything that happened at the time, just remember the hell of trying to open those threads and seeing the mods warn him and him then being gone and everyone talking about it.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I guess we are not "controversial enough" to get a call out thread. Maybe we should be more "edgy" or like drunk post or something. XD

We could both get a callout thread if we married each other.
That would turn some heads.

 

[PointlessKnowledge]

I guess we are not "controversial enough" to get a call out thread. Maybe we should be more "edgy" or like drunk post or something. XD

We could both get a callout thread if we married each other.
That would turn some heads.

If we get the Wild West back, I'll make a call out thread for both of you. Filled with dumb insults and mean words.

It'll be glorious!

 

[Drathnoxis]

I'm pretty sure the rules have been amended since Defy all but abandoned the site. In any event the mods are the only ones left who can do anything. Why don't you volunteer to join the moderation team? That way you'll have a say in what goes on around here. I'd do it, but I don't want to deal with the stress.

There hasn't been any changes to the CoC, or we all would have had to re-agree again.

The mods do not, nor have they ever accepted volunteer offers to the moderation team. It's even been stated that volunteering is likely to reduce your chances.

No we wouldn't have. I'm pretty sure it's been amended several times since I joined, back when we still had a staff to do that, and I don't recall ever having to re-agree to anything.

Well that's news to me.

Well then you are misremembering. Whenever there has been a revision to the CoC, when you log on the CoC pops up immediately and you need to type I AGREE at the bottom. One of the CMs in the past even stated that they don't make revisions to the CoC lightly because then they need to make everybody type I AGREE again. I can't find that though or anything from the threads about the new CoC before the last :/


What I did find was:

As everyone will have noticed, the new Code of Conduct has been rolled out today. (Random day too, right?)


(source) http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/703.935682-New-Code-of-Conduct#23556220

"As everyone will have noticed." Because it popped up as soon as they logged on.

True, but also, sucks to be them if they don't read the rules they agreed to.

(source) http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/703.935682-New-Code-of-Conduct#23556442

Because you have to agree to the rules, every time, or you can't use the site.

And also from a thread in 2012:

I see a few of the comments essentially say "you can't find an answer, comedy is subjective". To that I'll point out two things; first, everything discussed on this show is every bit as subjective. Secondly, the show is named No Right Answer.

As for the best of the two, George Carlin. By a mile.

Edit: Define irony. I need to agree to the new forum rules. I quote "You can disagree with whatever you like but using large amounts of obscene language and CAPS is against our policies". They then make me type I AGREE in all caps.

They even quote part of it.
[hr]
Also for good measure. Here's a quote from ex-mod Katherine Kerensky verifying my other point:

Quite correct, asking was a one way ticket to not becoming a mod, and suggesting people does little better.

So, let's not turn this thread into a begging to be empowered thread.
Instead, let's talk about my good points, like my fantastic hair, lovely blue eyes, and completely humble nature.

(source) http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/706.1015319-Mods-what-the-heck-Were-doing-this-again?page=3#24111442

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'm pretty sure the rules have been amended since Defy all but abandoned the site. In any event the mods are the only ones left who can do anything. Why don't you volunteer to join the moderation team? That way you'll have a say in what goes on around here. I'd do it, but I don't want to deal with the stress.

There hasn't been any changes to the CoC, or we all would have had to re-agree again.

The mods do not, nor have they ever accepted volunteer offers to the moderation team. It's even been stated that volunteering is likely to reduce your chances.

No we wouldn't have. I'm pretty sure it's been amended several times since I joined, back when we still had a staff to do that, and I don't recall ever having to re-agree to anything.

Well that's news to me.

Well then you are misremembering. Whenever there has been a revision to the CoC, when you log on the CoC pops up immediately and you need to type I AGREE at the bottom. One of the CMs in the past even stated that they don't make revisions to the CoC lightly because then they need to make everybody type I AGREE again. I can't find that though or anything from the threads about the new CoC before the last :/


What I did find was:

As everyone will have noticed, the new Code of Conduct has been rolled out today. (Random day too, right?)


(source) http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/703.935682-New-Code-of-Conduct#23556220

"As everyone will have noticed." Because it popped up as soon as they logged on.

True, but also, sucks to be them if they don't read the rules they agreed to.

(source) http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/703.935682-New-Code-of-Conduct#23556442

Because you have to agree to the rules, every time, or you can't use the site.

And also from a thread in 2012:

I see a few of the comments essentially say "you can't find an answer, comedy is subjective". To that I'll point out two things; first, everything discussed on this show is every bit as subjective. Secondly, the show is named No Right Answer.

As for the best of the two, George Carlin. By a mile.

Edit: Define irony. I need to agree to the new forum rules. I quote "You can disagree with whatever you like but using large amounts of obscene language and CAPS is against our policies". They then make me type I AGREE in all caps.

They even quote part of it.

Ok, fair enough. No surprise I'm misremembering. I never log off and my memory is faulty.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I missed Fox12s rampage

Wait, what? Aww man, I missed it too!

And now he's banned? But his bar isn't even full. That sucks. But he wasn't really coming around much anymore anyway. Basically just another one of those Discord group self bans.

I'll miss Fox though :/

 

[IceForce]

I missed Fox12s rampage

Wait, what? Aww man, I missed it too!

I saw it.

He spammed the forum with a large number of new threads (just like the bots do, because there's still no measures in place to stop someone from doing that), and every thread was full of Rule 34 Erin Stout.

A strange way to go out.

 

[Callate]

But where will I go to hear people being called Nazis now?

(Looks behind him at the rest of the Internet)

...Never mind.

 

[vallorn]

I missed Fox12s rampage

Wait, what? Aww man, I missed it too!

I saw it.

He spammed the forum with a large number of new threads (just like the bots do, because there's still no measures in place to stop someone from doing that), and every thread was full of Rule 34 Erin Stout.

A strange way to go out.

You wouldn't understand.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

OK, little test. Can I still post in this subforum?

 

[vallorn]

Removed innocent and humourous joke

I have found the perfect image to summarize my feelings surrounding this whole shebang and the apparent willingness to swing hammers at anything which moves.

Seriously, when a joke like Lost Gryphon's gets someone put on probation things are kinda fucked up, and, well, there's no WW to talk about weird things like this anymore, so I hope there's a replacement. Even though I probably hope in vain since the initial post on this thread shows that people would rather delete an entire forum than deal with long running problems in this forum's overall community.

 

[vallorn]

OK, little test. Can I still post in this subforum?

We're in Off Topic but yeah I see your post.

 

[chocolate pickles]

Again, this was a decision that wasn't made lightly nor without serious input from the whole moderation team.

.

So the views of all the mods mattered, but those of the community weren't worth anything?

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

OK, little test. Can I still post in this subforum?

We're in Off Topic but yeah I see your post.

I was actually testing to see if I could post anything at all, not just if could still post outside of the WW. Been having problems with 504 errors lately. Seems that one went through, most of my other recent ones haven't.

EDIT: ok, seems things work for me again. Odd.

 

[vallorn]

Hey, whoever removed the extra warnings on Lost Gryphon. Good on you anonymous moderator who I will continue to credit as being Tippy until told otherwise. Yes, even if Tippy isn't a mod he should still get credit, he's just a swell dude.

 

[JoJo]

I can't tell if it's an innocent mistake or an intentional disproportionate retribution on part of the moderation team.

Either way, I don't think this action endears you to the general public... in a thread that is already guaranteed to not endear to the public.

Hell, I understand axing WW sooner or later (despite being one of its prime defenders) but people like evil roy bring up a good point: What will you do now? Because the forums are in dire straights and merely axing one of your boards wouldn't fix anything. It's just throwing a blanket over the underlying the problem and honestly what I am seeing in this thread is that the people who hold the hammer have more interest smacking others with it than correcting the quagmire state of the site.

I looked at Gryph's record, and he appeared to have been hit three times in short succession for the same post. Either a site hiccup, or the mod giving out the infraction didn't think it went through. Either way, it should be fixed now.

And of course, we wish as much as anyone that site activity would increase again. The truth is, though, that there is little we can do to pull in new users without new professional content, which is something only Defy can provide. Having access to the backend of the site, I can see that traffic peaked in March 2012, with a slow decline ever since (well, there was a cliff-like drop in late 2014 when Jim and Bob left). To turn that around would be a lot to ask of a group of unpaid volunteers. Still, you never know. Maybe we'll be bought out by some rich sponsor who will pump money and content back into the site. And who will give free holidays to the mods as thanks for all their hard work... ;-)

 

[chocolate pickles]

I can't tell if it's an innocent mistake or an intentional disproportionate retribution on part of the moderation team.

Either way, I don't think this action endears you to the general public... in a thread that is already guaranteed to not endear to the public.

Hell, I understand axing WW sooner or later (despite being one of its prime defenders) but people like evil roy bring up a good point: What will you do now? Because the forums are in dire straights and merely axing one of your boards wouldn't fix anything. It's just throwing a blanket over the underlying the problem and honestly what I am seeing in this thread is that the people who hold the hammer have more interest smacking others with it than correcting the quagmire state of the site.

I looked at Gryph's record, and he appeared to have been hit three times in short succession for the same post. Either a site hiccup, or the mod giving out the infraction didn't think it went through. Either way, it should be fixed now.

And of course, we wish as much as anyone that site activity would increase again. The truth is, though, that there is little we can do to pull in new users without new professional content, which is something only Defy can provide. Having access to the backend of the site, I can see that traffic peaked in March 2012, with a slow decline ever since (well, there was a cliff-like drop in late 2014 when Jim and Bob left). To turn that around would be a lot to ask of a group of unpaid volunteers. Still, you never know. Maybe we'll be bought out by some rich sponsor who will pump money and content back into the site. And who will give free holidays to the mods as thanks for all their hard work... ;-)

Or maybe just let us have fun and enjoy the site as it dies?