In Regards to Wild West

[Trunkage]

StatusNil getting a warning for stating his opinion in a civil manner demonstrates just what is wrong with the site and it's moderation.

You know this post my be the proof that WW was bad. 1. You didn't insult anyone 2. You actual made an argument. Thanks for adding something to the conversation.
As to your argument, I honestly got through half StatusNil's post before shutting it down. I have to read more to make an appropriate comment. You though, in this post, imply that the mods should change to suit your particular needs. I'm going to have to ask for evidence for change over everyone else.

The problem some have with it though is if it were some other members saying the exact same thing there'd be no consequences for them.

I dont know what you specifically mean by 'it'. My assumption was mods or WW or StatusNil's knock. I'm going to go with mods and that they have no consequences. So on that assumption...
Mods would change things for the community. When people complain about mods, there is some commonality but there are some differences. Well, at least that's what I've noticed. There isn't a big rallying point other than they generally favour left leaning members (personally I dont believe that.) If there was more commonality, there would be more change.

A long time ago, I realised people werent going to do what I want them to do. Governments, corporations, staff memebers (and now my kids.) While I try to hard to change people, I realise that I probably won't make that change. I can change my self easier than I can change another person. That's how I see the mods. They arent going to do whatever I want. I accept that and I move on. (And I think spending your time pointing out how bad mods are will just antagonise them and make them less amenable. That defeats your own arguement.) Compare this to how people treat Trump. They lambast him and that doesnt change his behaviour. In fact, it makes him double down.

But, hey. Maybe I'm just dreaming

I was talking about how certain members can skirt the rules while others can't. It's been a problem for years on this site. We have certain members being passive aggressive and getting away with it. Just a few weeks ago someone was trying to bait me into insulting them over the fact that I had a learning disability. They were trying to antagonize me and I wasn't biting. I think people who try and pull shit like that should get some form of punishment but they don't.

As opposed to being called a cuck for having certain ideologies? Which happen to me a couple of week ago? I'd prefer to be baited than actually insulted. This is not meant to take away from the hurt you are feeling. You feel how you feel. I personally would be glad if that's all I had to ignore, but that comes from my circumstance.

snip.

perhaps there's a 3. You didn't have an ideology that was deemed 'offensive' enough to 'require' an insult. You know, an offensive comment like trans people should have some say in their identity. There were some people who would insult you till you left the conversation in WW. You know, like bullying.

You know what, I didn't call for the end then. I only called for it after Zontar thing. If some on the Left is going to act like some on the Right, it's time to pull up stumps.

It doesn't mean you personally did anything. Whether your Left or Right. It means that it wasn't doing its function. IMO, I'd agree with that

 

[Arnoxthe1]

perhaps there's a 3. You didn't have an ideology that was deemed 'offensive' enough to 'require' an insult. You know, an offensive comment like trans people should have some say in their identity. There were some people who would insult you till you left the conversation in WW. You know, like bullying.

You know what, I didn't call for the end then. I only called for it after Zontar thing. If some on the Left is going to act like some on the Right, it's time to pull up stumps.

It doesn't mean you personally did anything. Whether your Left or Right. It means that it wasn't doing its function. IMO, I'd agree with that

Well, I'm a self-proclaimed furry and I love femboys and trans people. I'm pretty sure I've been open about all that for a long while now. I even posted my fursona in one thread. But I guessed nobody cared enough to harass me... ? I even got a Black Lagoon avatar here. I mean, c'mon people. If anyone's gonna get "harassed", it should be me.

Maybe I should post my fursona again more publicly so I can really make myself a nice target for all these supposed nazis and right-winged nutjobs, am I right?

 

[Zontar]

Man, I go away for two days and come back to find the WW is locked and it's justification was the... 18th? I think it was the 18th. I'll go with 18th. The justification was the 8th callout thread against me.

I didn't even dislike those threads, I thought they where funny. Some where genuinlly funny because they where trying (we all know the ones), while others where funny in the "man people made a thread just to call me that?" kind of way.

I want to make it clear I liked the WW even with its faults, do not approve of its closure, and dispise the fact my name is probably perminatly associated with its closure.

 

[Marik2]

Tomorrow I will go to the library to write my opinion on this. I have a lot of suggestions and concerns about all of this.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Tomorrow I will go to the library to write my opinion on this. I have a lot of suggestions and concerns about all of this.

I wouldn't waste your time. The site team is adamant about this.

 

[Marik2]

Tomorrow I will go to the library to write my opinion on this. I have a lot of suggestions and concerns about all of this.

I wouldn't waste your time. The site team is adamant about this.

True, but I still want to be thorough with my opinion.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should" isn't a compelling argument in this case.
Defy holds the keys, they could turn this place off tomorrow, that's their choice and whether or not they should is a matter up for debate that involves details us regular users don't have access to. The mods moderate the forums, stuff like this is literally their entire bloody job, and just because the users said "We want this!" doesn't mean the moderation team has to abide by it to infinity and beyond. There are limits to things, and whether you like it or not a limit has been reached, and this limit is not and will not be dictated by the common user. This forum is not a democracy. That the moderation team allowed users to give their input months ago was a courtesy to us.

The moderators moderate the forums, according to the pre-existing rules. That job does not entail creating new rules or removing existing subforums at will. Why should the moderation team have full autonomy over the direction of the site? They have no legitimate claim to the power they currently wield. They aren't the owners of the site, nor have they been employed by the owners to act as directors. They are simply ascended users. People, like you or me, who were semi arbitrarily chosen to act as enforcers of pre-determined rules. They currently have no oversight, little transparency, and are the sole distributors of moderation power. Everybody here has been here for years, this is as much our home is it is theirs. Just because someone was handed the keys to the bus doesn't mean they get to drive it wherever they want. What gives them the right to decide the future of the site on their own?

I'm pretty sure the rules have been amended since Defy all but abandoned the site. In any event the mods are the only ones left who can do anything. Why don't you volunteer to join the moderation team? That way you'll have a say in what goes on around here. I'd do it, but I don't want to deal with the stress.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Man, I go away for two days and come back to find the WW is locked and it's justification was the... 18th? I think it was the 18th. I'll go with 18th. The justification was the 8th callout thread against me.

I didn't even dislike those threads, I thought they where funny. Some where genuinlly funny because they where trying (we all know the ones), while others where funny in the "man people made a thread just to call me that?" kind of way.

I want to make it clear I liked the WW even with its faults, do not approve of its closure, and dispise the fact my name is probably perminatly associated with its closure.

I wouldn't stress too much about it. The wild west was doomed from the start.

 

[n0e]

Hello all.

As some of you may have noticed, the Wild West sub-forum is no longer accessible. This is not a glitch, nothing Defy did, but something that we, as a moderation team, have decided to do, and this was something that was not done lightly nor without group consideration and discussion.

Yes, there was a thread a while back to ask the community their thoughts and feelings about what to be done about WW. It was decided to let it be, and let users post how they wish since it was conveyed to us that users were having fun in there and it was an outlet they really appreciated.

However, due to recent threads that range from borderline harassment to outright bullying, we have decided to close it off. What was originally a sub-forum for topic-less threads, whimsy fun, and random shenanigans has now turned vitriolic and unacceptable. It has now turned into a place that some users feel that they can now get away with this behavior and consequences will not happen due to the lawlessness of the sub-forum.

Not anymore, nor will it come back.

Again, this was a decision that wasn't made lightly nor without serious input from the whole moderation team. That being said, if there are threads in WW that should be moved to other forums so that they can still be continued posting in, please do let either myself, or another member of the moderation team know and we will be more than happy to do so.

Cheers.

This is great news! I wish I was able to do it during my tenure.

*glares at Defy management*

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

But now where will I go to watch blatantly transphobic racists pretend to be Nazis for fun?

 

[Elijin]

Okay, Im indifferent to the fate of the WW, but...

chocolate pickles both contributed to the topic, and even socialised amicably with another user. The fact that is worth remarking is a statement in itself.

Also while the free for all that WW was is dumb, someone was moderated for calling another user a jerk in this topic. This has been a long time problem with The Escapist, we're not in kindy. There's a difference between abuse and hostility and calling someone who is being a jerk, a jerk (or even pointing out their behaviour is sort of jerky). Theoretically we're all above grade school, so why the grade school draconian rules?

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Real talk: As someone who has struggled with suicide (and lost a family member to it) it saddens me that anyone would encourage another to end their life, even in jest.
The letters "KYS" should stand for "Kiss your spouse" or "knit your sweater" not something harsher.

Behind you all the way on this one.

 

[chocolate pickles]

It's been pretty open that we're it and that we answer to the CM, and we've very much aware of that fact. As a matter of fact, Defy could just decide to shut this place down without warning and there isn't anything we can do about it.

As I have stated multiple times, due to what was going on in WW we revisited the issue and that was what we decided. You can dislike it all you like, but those are the facts.

Very well, but, you don't get the right to call it "Not a powertrip" when you response to the fact you've broken what the users voted on, and what was previous promised by the current staff is "Too bad if you don't like it".

Definitely siding with Fiz on this one. You did the exact opposite of what people wanted, and then essentially say too bad, I'm the man in charge? Sounds like a power trip. And people wonder why half my posts of the WW were ragging on the mods. By the looks of it though, the Wild West is now actually spilling out to the rest of the forum. Congratulations: rather than flushing the turd, you smeared it all over the walls. Ain't gonna be concentrated in any particular area, but oh boy you don't want to touch anything.

 

[bluegate]

As was done with Wynn, effort should have been made remove those trouble makers. It feels an awful lot like this was the plan all along given it's something people in charge have been trying to do repeatedly.

Wynn's case was an extreme situation because he was literally breaking the site. They can't simply "remove" the troublemakers because the entire point of Wild West was that it had no moderation aside from removing any porn, illegal content, or site breaking. Do you not remember the response to Wynn's Pub Club being revoked??? People were going all "Well if they can just revoke Pub Club like that then what else can they do???"

Nonsense.

His posting of HTML in posts was done months before he had his PubClub privileges revoked, was suspended and subsequently banned. He stopped this behavior after having been told not to do it anymore. He wasn't removed from the site because he was a danger to the site, although it makes for a convenient excuse, apparently.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Too bad. Though i can't say i'm particuralry surprised, i'm still gonna miss some aspects of it.

Would there be a possibility for a WW Lite subforum in the future? Where insults, bullying, and callout thread nonsense doesn't fly just as in the other subs, but content rules are more lenient?

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

So that's it then, huh? One mean name and off with their heads?

Only if it's Zontar

the mods put too much work into burying his past infractions and bringing him back for people to make a callout thread against him

Racism? Fine. Sexism? Just fine. Transphobia? Of course it's fine. Homophobia? Oh you know it is already fine. Calling someone a mean name? Hey now, slow down there bud.

Remember the bleach drinking phase WW and R&P went through?

nothing like telling people to kill themselves in meme format

I still have my "bleached" avatar saved somewhere. First time someone edited it for me, and it came out really neat.

 

[StatusNil]

All these mods and even the Community Manager are volunteers trying to keep this sinking ship from sinking faster. Regardless, they've been given the authority to manage the community, which is about as easy as herding cats with this site.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "they have taken upon themselves the authority to manage the community". That's how it seems to be, that they have no connection to the owners of the site, no responsibility to anyone etc.

Now, you may well applaud the volunteer spirit. But it doesn't change de facto control into anything more. That's not even a judgment, merely an observation of what I understand to be the facts.

 

[JoJo]

All these mods and even the Community Manager are volunteers trying to keep this sinking ship from sinking faster. Regardless, they've been given the authority to manage the community, which is about as easy as herding cats with this site.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "they have taken upon themselves the authority to manage the community". That's how it seems to be, that they have no connection to the owners of the site, no responsibility to anyone etc.

Now, you may well applaud the volunteer spirit. But it doesn't change de facto control into anything more. That's not even a judgment, merely an observation of what I understand to be the facts.

That is not quite true. Before he departed to the West, the last staff member Encaen gave us explicit permission to manage the site: not just the forums, but also the content feed too. That's why we have access to the IMS, mods did not have access to the back-end of the site before the majority of staff were laid off.

 

[Saelune]

What I miss? *sips drink*

 

[Worgen]

What I miss? *sips drink*

Mostly threads insulting zontar or zontar making troll threads. Probably, I haven't been paying much attention.