In Search of Great Tactical RPGs

[aozgolo]

A genre I really want to love, but often am left wanting is the Tactical or Strategy RPG. Those games where developing characters and a strong focus on story are still there, but has a more combat-focused edge with group battles being the big thing.

I set the bar fairly high early on when I really go into the genre with Final Fantasy Tactics and it has become the primary game by which I compare all other Tactical RPGs to. This had more often than not left me disappointed with a game and unable to get into it. While there's been a few others I have enjoyed like Ogre Battle, King's Bounty, and the Disciples series (which is a lot more strategy than RPG) I crave something with the complexity and story of FFT.

The kind of complexity I am talking about is in terms of how much control you have over your units both in and out of battle, being able to not just shape their jobs but skills to make them unique and the level of content available, having tons of maps to fight on, lots of quests, side activities, and a really engaging story. Also due to my love for FFT I find flat grid battle maps to be very boring, although not a deal breaker.

So I'm curious if people can recommend to me some great Tactical RPGs to get into and some of their interesting or unique features? I have a PC, PS3, PS2, DS, Gamecube and PSP available to me but I'll listen to recommendations on any system.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

The Disgaea series of games may be up your street. I've only played the forst one, but I enjoyed it a lot and the story was actually very good, particularly it's sense of humour, for the most part. It's more fun/junk-food style tactics than tension based (i.e. you can pick up your characters and throw them), but it's still good.

Vandal Hearts is another game I remember enjoying, but it's been that long since I played it I couldn't say if it still holds up or not.

And of course, you've always got the legendary classics Shining Force 1 & 2. Cliche stories, and simplistic battles, but very, very engrossing.

 

[kylroy]

I surely can recommend the Icewind Dale series, as it is D&D and has an emphasis on tactical battles. Jagged Alliance games come to mind, where you can hire very unique and also hilarious mercenary personalities.

If you want something more recent just take the Blackguards series. it is based on the german RPG system "The Dark Eye" and has wonderful and sophisticated tactical battles.

just play all of the above. you won't regret it!

 

[ExDeath730]

There are some good ones already, but, why not Fire Emblem?

Ok, it's a lot more focused in tactics than in RPG, and the permadeath thing can be a little dauting, but it's a very fun game, and you will probably have some good times with it, if possible try to play Path of Radiance, Awakening, or if you can, the two for GBA are very good, specially the one called just Fire Emblem, the good thing there is that two of the three "Lords" (Lyn and Hector) are beasts, so you don't have the problem you have in other games, were the lord sucks.

Another thing, Age of Wonders 3, is more focused in turn-based strategy, but there is a lot of RPG elements to it, and it's quite fun for a mix of Civlization + Heroes of Mighty and Magic, Fallen Enchantress is another game that is like that, and it's also pretty good, maybe even better than Age of Wonders 3, it's more RPG focused than the other, but still with the strategy roots.

Lastly, there is Valkyria Chronicles, don't watch the anime, it sucks, but play the game, it rocks. Some really good characters, fun story, but it's like Fire Emblem, it's chapter focused, but the battles are good, the mechanics are solid and it will make you think and care about your soldiers.

 

[thoughtwrangler]

The Disgaea series of games may be up your street. I've only played the forst one, but I enjoyed it a lot and the story was actually very good, particularly it's sense of humour, for the most part. It's more fun/junk-food style tactics than tension based (i.e. you can pick up your characters and throw them), but it's still good.

I'm going to second Disgaea, though I've only played 1&2. There are some who say, reasonably, that most of the battles can be powered through by leveling, but that's the beauty of it. There are so many different ways to approach a battle, and you have control (via reincarnation) as to how your characters develop, which abilities they retain, etc.

Also, it rewards power-gaming without making the game too easy. There's an astounding amount of postgame and bonus content.

There are some good ones already, but, why not Fire Emblem?

I agree with you that Fire Emblem is a good game, but the tactics you're given revolve more around positioning and timing. These two things are far more crucial and exploitable than they are in FFT, for example. So I concur that it has quite a bit of depth. It's a lot of fun, and the OP might enjoy it (especially the story), but I think it scratches a different itch, gameplay-wise.

For example, in Final Fantasy Tactics, your mage can choose which spell to cast, which square to cast it on (so it's direct or indirect, hits all enemies, focuses on one, etc.) If they dual-classed with Priest abilities, they can heal a nearby party member or choose to cast "Shell". Your Knight can choose to Shield Break, or you can retain squire abilities and abuse "rock throw" to grind for Job Points (hey now, everyone's done it.)

Fire Emblem doesn't have quite that degree of control. It's still very deep, just in vastly different ways. Still a fine and worthy series though I think the permadeath raises the stakes and makes things very rewarding.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Divinity: Original Sin is a very recent and very excellent example of tactical RPG, and so far holds the most intricate elemental system, every single element and combination has an affect on the world and combat (even pools of blood from your enemies/possibly allies is considered as a liquid).
But this is not a JRPG, if you are looking for grind this simply doesn't have it, the world always comes with a very specific number of characters/enemies, you can always find a fight somewhere new(even butcher peaceful towns if you want) but running around aimlessly in hopes for random encounters will always leave you empty handed.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

I recommend Shadowrun: Returns/Shadowrun: Dragonfall, especially Dragonfall which is better than Returns. If you haven't heard of Shadowrun it's Cyberpunk in a world where magic and magical creatures have returned to the earth, Returns is set in Seattle and Dragonfall Berlin. It's turn based combat with a squad in a way that's very similar to XCOM Enemy Unknown if you've played that. It also has a pretty neat story, classless character development and that sort stuff.

Dragonfall improves pretty much everything about the base game including having a proper RPG party instead of hiring nobodies, the Director's Cut of it which I haven't played yet (but it's the version you'll get if you get it now) also lets you chose how you level your party members.

 

[hybridial]

Well, I'll start with a very unique recommendation that admittedly isn't on any of the systems you mentioned, it is on the original Xbox. But that system isn't expensive to buy second hand and I feel it's totally worth it for these two games alone, plus as a system it had quite a lot of decent games. I rate it much better than the 360 ever was anyway.

Kingdom Under Fire: The Crusaders and Kingdom Under Fire: Heroes. Now these games have a gameplay style that I just have never seen done before. It combines elements of RTS, hack and slash action and RPG upgrading mechanics. It is a very tactical game and I think what I would say is it's a lot like Icewind Dale/Baldur's Gate except you're using an army to fight another army instead of a party to fight a mob. You can't really pause and issue commands though but that for the most part is fine. You might have heard about Kingdom Under Fire II which is in development but eh, that started out looking like a worthy sequel and has morphed into something that looks nothing like these games. They involve controlling a number of combat units, and each one is very highly customisable, as you obtain them through the story. You can completely alter their job, their officer who in turn is individually customisable, Your protagonist who will be doing the hacking and slashing, gear, skills, all that stuff. It's really something special. In the battles themselves, they operate around a rock-paper-scissors system roughly speaking, with certain units being strong against others. Calvary for example can do heavy damage to normal melee or ranged units with their charges, but Spearmen or Axe-Orcs will counteract them and obliterate them. Ranged will destroy aerial units. There's so many awesome fantasy warfare units to, from Giant Scorpions to Paladins to Calvary archers. And all this comes with a bitchin' metal soundtrack and a legitimately cool story that feels very different to the usual LotR fantasy stuff.



Otherwise, I would recommend Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate. They are isometric, real time combat games that offer tactical pausing. IWD is pretty linear but lets you customise a party of up to 6 characters top to bottom. Baldur's Gate has you create a single character and then recruit people from well, quite a large pool really (30 characters in BGEE, 24 in BGEE2), and in those games you experience a much more open ended story driven experience. Both are definitely strong tactical games, and are excellent experiences.

And Shadowrun, already mentioned.

Shining Force 1 and 2 - These games are like FFT/Fire Emblem but has traditional town exploration parts which I liked. Good stories, simple but dependable combat, they're good clean fun.

Stella Deus: Gate of Eternity - probably the most FFT like suggestion, it is basically very similar, but has it's own aesthetic style and story approach.

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor - SMT brought into SRPG territory. The superb press turn system from Nocturne returns, and it has a unique demon recruitment and fusion mechanic. Very deep, great story, highly recommended.

 

[aozgolo]

Also check out Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm. Both excellent!

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Expeditions: Conquistador is a really nice one. Excellent writing/dialogue, great setting (Spanish conquest/exploration of America), fantastic visual design and assets and the combat is rather simple but very enjoyable. I'd recommend it easily. I had a great time with it myself.

 

[asdfen]

Disgaea 1,2,3,4,d2
Makai Kingdom
La Pucel tactics
Phantom Brave
vandal hearts
Valkyria Chronicles
XCOM UFO DEFENSE (the excelent original still fun to play today)
xcom terror from the deep (the best game in this genre imo)
xcom enemy within (new shittier game but still good)
Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes
fantasy wars (very hard)
Growlanser


all of the games aboe I have enjoyed imensly

ps2/ps1 has a ton of good tbs a lot rereleased on psn and playable on ps3

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I recommend Shadowrun: Returns/Shadowrun: Dragonfall, especially Dragonfall which is better than Returns. If you haven't heard of Shadowrun it's Cyberpunk in a world where magic and magical creatures have returned to the earth, Returns is set in Seattle and Dragonfall Berlin. It's turn based combat with a squad in a way that's very similar to XCOM Enemy Unknown if you've played that. It also has a pretty neat story, classless character development and that sort stuff.

Dragonfall improves pretty much everything about the base game including having a proper RPG party instead of hiring nobodies, the Director's Cut of it which I haven't played yet (but it's the version you'll get if you get it now) also lets you chose how you level your party members.

Don't forget the whole part of the game that is basically download more content from the Workshop to play through. There's some really well done fan-made content and even a remake of the SNES game (I'd prefer a remake of the Genesis version but still, its pretty good). Very well done, surprisingly well in my opinion. I'd definitely say one of the better recent tactical RPGs.

 

[Guffe]

The Fire Emblem series.
If you have a DS then go to the Eshop and starts looking. At least for the WiiU there are old ones (GBA) which have been "translated" so I can Dl them and play them on the WiiU, and then the DS has a few good FE titles itself too, which I haven't played myself due to not owning a DS. But rumours tell me they are great

 

[snekadid]

You have a PSP, have you played Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together? Its basically FFT with a changeable story. It's extremely good.

 

[jedisensei]

You have a PSP, have you played Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together? Its basically FFT with a changeable story. It's extremely good.

Seconded. Also, the FFT: War of the Lions for PSP is a slightly enhanced remake with a couple new classes.

I'll also second the XCOM games (Enemy Within in particular has 'tons of maps & customizable skills' OP is interested in) -- the first ones I found REALLY hard to get into, frankly, and not just because of the daunting challenge.

The Banner Saga is also an enjoyable tactical RPG for the PC, but it lacks the terrain aspect, really, and is quite short. I'd nevertheless highly recommend it for it's style & music, alone.

Lastly, even though OP said they don't have Xbox, I am obligated to mention Operation Darkness, which is genuinely terrible and yet one of my favorite tactical RPGs on any system. It's soooo, sooo bad...but strangely compelling.

 

[aozgolo]

Thank you for the suggestions everyone (keep em coming!) I have a lot of Tactical RPGs already, the problem is knowing where to start. I'll give a quick rundown on what I already own:

PSP:

Disgaea Afternoon of Darkness
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together

PSN:

Saiyuki: Journey West

PC:

Agarest Zero
Agarest Generations of War
Agarest Generations of War 2
The Banner Saga
Disciples
Disciples II
Disciples III
Fallout Tactics
XCOM: Enemy Unknown
Valkyria Chronicles
The Last Remnant
Grotesque Tactics
Grotesque Tactics 2

GBA:

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance



Of those mentioned only a few have I played more than an hour or two (FFT, FFTA, and Disciples 1) There's many others I want to try like Growlanser, Ragnarok Tactics, Gungnir, Fire Emblem, and the like.

I also have played Icewind Dale and Shadowrun Returns games before but I consider those more party-based RPGs and even though they have tactical depth, aren't really what I'd classify as true "Tactical RPGs" though I'm sure that definition is a bit loose so others might think so.

 

[DoPo]

Disciples
Disciples II
Disciples III

I've not played 1 and 3, but I've played 2 and I'd like to comment on these - they aren't really RPGs - they are just turn based games. Though there is a lot of levelling up ans such. D2 was a great game, definitely play through the two expansions - Guardians of the Light and Servants of the Dark (I've not played the elven expansion).

D3 was generally not liked (hovering around average and never above it, from what I've heard), as far as I gathered. And there are, like 3 different versions of it floating around - Complete, Gold and something else (names may not be exactly the same). I've seen feedback that one of them is good but...well, I had lost interest by that point. But if you can track down which one it is, somebody mentioned it's "what Disciples 3 should have been" (I'm paraphrasing).

XCOM: Enemy Unknown

I think it's an AWESOME game. Definitely do play the expansion - Enemy Within, instead of vanilla. Switching on the Ironman mode makes the things even more exciting, though if you're not into save scumming, the normal game is quite fine, too. I'd actually suggest playing without Ironman, at least at first, because there are some...odd stuff that you may encounter. Here is an example:

Further into the game you can unlock an armour that comes with a grappling hook and it's a great thing, as it allows you even more positioning. Only, occasionally you'd tell the soldier to hook onto a roof, they'd point at it, shoot...and be reeled off in a completely different direction. It doesn't happen often but you can see it. And the worst part is, that if this happens, YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'D GO! I had one soldier, my sniper to be precise be reeled off under a tower instead on top of it. And I do mean "under" - she just plunged into the ground and kept going. It's like she went into Hades.

But other than that and, like, couple of other bugs, I still love the game. I wouldn't call in an RPG but I'd see why you'd want it. I'd definitely recommend giving it a go.

 

[Oroboros]

Seconding Gladius, that was an amazing game. It's set in a fantasy version of ancient Rome, instead of the usual medieval/renaissance, and it has two campaigns-one with a male character, and one with a female character. I wholeheartedly recommend it. Deserves a sequel that will never come.

Another I'd second that got mentioned here is Jagged Alliance 2, particularly with the fan mod installed. *Extremely* tactical, with a wide range of mercenaries (party members) to recruit, punishing difficulty, hundreds of unique weapons to choose from, and permadeath. It does X-Com better than X-com, IMO, and the individual mercs all have their own personalities which make them a bit more unique than the faceless mooks of X-com or Xenonauts.

Baldur's Gate: If you want to try D&D computer games, start here. I'd recommend getting the mod that lets you play through BG I+II using the BG II system though.

Geneforge series: Another game with permadeath. You play a 'Shaper' a sort of wizard that specializing in manipulating life. YOu can create and control a number of 'creations', ranging from the lowly Fyora-a sort of firebreathing veloceraptor, to more advanced creations such as the ogre-like Tralls or the squidlike Vlish. It's incredibly unique and has some truly challenging battles.

Breath of Fire V: Blamed for killing the franchise thanks to radical departures in gameplay, setting, and tone, nonetheless a great tactical rpg. Something of a 'survival rpg' it has challenging fights that force you to choose carefully and conserve resources, and rewards repeated playthroughs.

 

[jedisensei]

The problem is knowing where to start. ...[snip]...Of those mentioned only a few have I played more than an hour or two (FFT, FFTA, and Disciples 1)

Hmmm, well, from the list, I'd go in this order in terms of greater-to-lesser similarity to FFT:

Tactics Ogre
Banner Saga
XCOM: Enemy Unknown**
Valkyria Chronicles

I know very little of the other games, certainly not enough to make any comparisons or recommendations. But those four are excellent and well worth playing.



**Also, get Enemy Within instead; it's on sale for $10 right now and makes siginificant improvements on the base game -- notably to bug fixes, map diversity, and character customization.