In terms of character portrayal, should created characters be considered as good examples?

[G-Force]

All too often debates on the portrayal of different ethnic groups and genders in video games and how they're either misrepresented or under represented. However there are tons of games where you can make your own character and have them be heroic without falling into many common stereotypes. You can have an Indian female vault dweller roaming the wasteland or a Native American Shepard saving the universe yet all to often in these debates games like Mass Effect or Fallout are simply ignored.

Why isn't character creation the end all be all answer?

 

[emeraldrafael]

People wil always have racist characters (portraying a stereotype of some kind) but to settle the equal opportunity debate... probably not. People who like to claim racism will say that they could only have their group represented in a make your own character game, rather then them being the actual character. So the thought will be that they're not good enough to star their own game without being made.

...

then again i could be wrong, but thats just my thoughts.

 

[LordOmnit]

Because a skin tone slider/selector does not a character make.
You can be any of those things, but in those situations those aren't important features of your character.
In effect, when you make a presumably non-white character in a game from character creation it has no effect on the character.
What does it say about my character if I make, say, a black female in Mass Effect? Not really anything as far as I'm aware. Maybe because I chose a female some reactions will be different I guess, but not because I chose for her to display lots of melanin.
To put it simply, *can be* doesn't make a difference when your character is unaffected by it.
Plus, the *official* display characters are rarely anything but a generic white-person anyways. It's not like they marketed Shepard in Mass Effect as a black dude/chick anyways.

 

[Unfairestsquid]

Its not that their aren't any characters for those races that make them underrepresented it's the fact that their token minorities or have one dimensional,so nothing short of letting the player come up with the characters entire personality in a way that can create 3 dimensional characters could that be a convincing argument.

 

[I Have No Idea]

Having player characters of a different race would skyrocket the production costs for developers. Because every race is reacted to differently by different people, it's the developer's job to show that realistically. Having different reactions for every character of every race is a working nightmare. Think of it this way: would Red Dead Redemption be the same with a Mexican Marston? Or the No Russian level in MW2: it would be drastically different (probably non-existent) if you played a character of Asian descent. Having a story accommodate for different races is a huge task.

But, I get what you're saying.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Sure you can create your own character, but not every other character in that games universe... Unless you have some serious modding skills.

But peopleeee, stereotyping is good in this medium! It breaks down the need to get to know somebody over a period of years. A stereotype in a character sums up much of their personality in a few seconds! Without having to take them bowling, or playing darts with them, to get them to reveal when their birthday is. Stereotyping is good for gaming. Because players don't want to have to dig into the psyche of a character, they want him to show his/her true colors immediately, so they don't have to be a social worker.

If there is a black sassy character that acts like she owns the place, it infers that she is going to be the sort of person that 'don't need no man.' That she is strong, but had a rough upbringing.

And to stop people from shouting at me for stereotyping a completely fictional character I just made up, I'll also make one for a white person.

A white person with a mustache and a bowler hat, complete with cane that lives in Liverpool. I'd say that he was a high class employee, but ultimately alone in the vast sea of the city, this will make him feel disconnected with his fellow man.

Stereotyping is good. Don't get it mixed up with just plain insulting.

 

[G-Force]

In effect, when you make a presumably non-white character in a game from character creation it has no effect on the character.
What does it say about my character if I make, say, a black female in Mass Effect? Not really anything as far as I'm aware. Maybe because I chose a female some reactions will be different I guess, but not because I chose for her to display lots of melanin.
To put it simply, *can be* doesn't make a difference when your character is unaffected by it.
Plus, the *official* display characters are rarely anything but a generic white-person anyways. It's not like they marketed Shepard in Mass Effect as a black dude/chick anyways.

Wouldn't that be even worse to have characters with different reactions based on race? Take Louis from Left 4 Dead, if you close your eyes and listened to him would you guess that he's black?

 

[LordOmnit]

Well, if they made the option for stereotypical racial traits in characters they'd get a lot of flak. Though if I could make a black Shepard that talks like the crows on Dumbo I would be ecstatic.

Precisely the other problem, but I think emeraldrafael right above me said it better in that without being the main character in their own right- not by player intervention through character creation- it's like saying, "they can't star in their own game."

 

[Hal10k]

Having the ability to choose the race of a protagonist means that you can't write anything in the story detailing his race, stereotypical or otherwise. It isn't a way to solve the issue, just sidestep it.

That being said, I'd like to say that I was a bit concerned when I saw a racism thread with "Final solution" in the title.

 

[LordOmnit]

Wouldn't that be even worse to have characters with different reactions based on race? Take Louis from Left 4 Dead, if you close your eyes and listened to him would you guess that he's black?

You act as though race is a complete non-issue and, I don't know where you come from, but I'm pretty sure that it's still at least a little bit of an issue pretty much everywhere, so a narrative game (i.e.- where this whole thing would make any kind of difference) should be able to tackle that issue if it so chooses. Not saying that characters should be stereotypes or everyone should be racist, but I don't think that in a game with character creation the issue of race could ever come up for the main character unless it was more to do with species than skin color.
As for the Louis issue, if I was just reading lines then almost certainly not. Listening, however, I believe that there is a certain inflection in his voice (I've no idea how to use words describing voice, by the way, so inflection could be the wrong word) that does indicate he is black.

 

[underthetree]

you can try different classes and finally decide the one you like
Diablo 3 Gold [http://www.diablo3-iii.com]

 

[StereoMike]

Are games where you make your own character the final solution to the racisim debate?

Oh I see what you did thar...

 

[Phlakes]

Nope, the final solution is for people to get the fuck over it. But we all know how likely that is.

 

[chadachada123]

Wouldn't that be even worse to have characters with different reactions based on race? Take Louis from Left 4 Dead, if you close your eyes and listened to him would you guess that he's black?

You act as though race is a complete non-issue and, I don't know where you come from, but I'm pretty sure that it's still at least a little bit of an issue pretty much everywhere, so a narrative game (i.e.- where this whole thing would make any kind of difference) should be able to tackle that issue if it so chooses. Not saying that characters should be stereotypes or everyone should be racist, but I don't think that in a game with character creation the issue of race could ever come up for the main character unless it was more to do with species than skin color.
As for the Louis issue, if I was just reading lines then almost certainly not. Listening, however, I believe that there is a certain inflection in his voice (I've no idea how to use words describing voice, by the way, so inflection could be the wrong word) that does indicate he is black.

It doesn't indicate that he's black, only that he grew up with the culture that black Americans have. His voice does give some inclination of that, yes, meaning he is *most likely* black.

I've met South Africans both white and black with essentially the exact same voice; the vast disparity between American black English dialect(s) and everyone else's is more of by-product of American history.

 

[G-Force]

Sure you can create your own character, but not every other character in that games universe... Unless you have some serious modding skills.

But peopleeee, stereotyping is good in this medium! It breaks down the need to get to know somebody over a period of years. A stereotype in a character sums up much of their personality in a few seconds! Without having to take them bowling, or playing darts with them, to get them to reveal when their birthday is. Stereotyping is good for gaming. Because players don't want to have to dig into the psyche of a character, they want him to show his/her true colors immediately, so they don't have to be a social worker.

If there is a black sassy character that acts like she owns the place, it infers that she is going to be the sort of person that 'don't need no man.' That she is strong, but had a rough upbringing.

And to stop people from shouting at me for stereotyping a completely fictional character I just made up, I'll also make one for a white person.

A white person with a mustache and a bowler hat, complete with cane that lives in Liverpool. I'd say that he was a high class employee, but ultimately alone in the vast sea of the city, this will make him feel disconnected with his fellow man.

Stereotyping is good. Don't get it mixed up with just plain insulting.

Of course we're not suggesting that every game you should make your own character. It's more so that when people say "there's not enough women in games or certain members of a minority group" people are quick to agree with those claims instead of pointing to titles where you can make characters.

 

[G-Force]

bumping the thread as the subject has been creeping up again

 

[Zhukov]

How is the answer to this not incredibly obvious?

If a character is made so that they can be anybody of any race, gender etc, then the inevitable result is that that character is a nonspecific nobody lacking any depth or definition.

 

[squid5580]

Wouldn't that be even worse to have characters with different reactions based on race? Take Louis from Left 4 Dead, if you close your eyes and listened to him would you guess that he's black?

You act as though race is a complete non-issue and, I don't know where you come from, but I'm pretty sure that it's still at least a little bit of an issue pretty much everywhere, so a narrative game (i.e.- where this whole thing would make any kind of difference) should be able to tackle that issue if it so chooses. Not saying that characters should be stereotypes or everyone should be racist, but I don't think that in a game with character creation the issue of race could ever come up for the main character unless it was more to do with species than skin color.
As for the Louis issue, if I was just reading lines then almost certainly not. Listening, however, I believe that there is a certain inflection in his voice (I've no idea how to use words describing voice, by the way, so inflection could be the wrong word) that does indicate he is black.

When we are talking video games it is a non issue. Gender is also a non issue. They are just minor points for major issue plaguing games. Most characters are just plain terrible. Regardless of race or gender or species. Games are the one place where all races and genders are treated equally. Terribly but equally