Incest?
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I've never felt the attraction on a conscious level so I can't comment on that but in general, it doesn't bother me.
I'll compare this to another issue: You know how homosexuality has been proven by all non-religously funded science to be harmless? And that kids from families with gay people or gay adoptive parents tend to be very happy and healthy? And there are just (adjusted for proportion) just as many long lasting monogamous gay relationships as heterosexual ones. The gays are accepted cause science and empathy make it clear they're A-okay. If they have problems, it's not because they're gay.
Incest doesn't have that kind of track record. Biologically and psychologically there seems to be real harm. There is some debate, but power imbalance will almost always be present with Older-younger siblings, or parents having sex with their kids. In this sense, how consensual is it? 18 year old daughter and 49 year old father...I hesitate to say the daughter has a lot of power in this sexual relationship. It can also lead to a lack of division of relationships, extreme promiscuity without protection. Not just healthy sexual liberality, just the need to consider everyone a sex partner. This shatters the divides between friend, brother, and fuck buddy, leading to issues forming lasting bonds and forming confident social bonds based on things outside of sex. It's hard to find statistics on this, but people involved in incest are often very promiscuous, to a physically dangerous extent. Because to them, all relationships become sex-based. These are case by case studies obviously, but I can't find many to say someone is happy after having incest.
Abuse victims consistently show signs of depression, and even before kids are taught about 'the places under their bathing suits', they still consistently report feeling great discomfort and fear and intimidation after molestation, long before sexual thoughts are in their noggin in a meaningful way. In addition, their are the natural downsides of unhealthy children consistently produced via incestuous conception.
Maybe someday their will be some exception to the rule. But I can't find any reports about them. There may be bias in this research, of course, and for some, there definitely is. I personally think it's very dangerous, and will almost always be harmful in many ways to both parties, especially the younger. I only say this because I see very little evidence to the contrary. I'm an atheist with very flexible morality based on science, rationality, empathy and love for my fellow man. I'm going off nature, science, study and a dash of gut feeling. I genuinely think touching your sister the wrong way is going to mess both of you up later.
Incest doesn't have that kind of track record. Biologically and psychologically there seems to be real harm. There is some debate, but power imbalance will almost always be present with Older-younger siblings, or parents having sex with their kids. In this sense, how consensual is it? 18 year old daughter and 49 year old father...I hesitate to say the daughter has a lot of power in this sexual relationship. It can also lead to a lack of division of relationships, extreme promiscuity without protection. Not just healthy sexual liberality, just the need to consider everyone a sex partner. This shatters the divides between friend, brother, and fuck buddy, leading to issues forming lasting bonds and forming confident social bonds based on things outside of sex. It's hard to find statistics on this, but people involved in incest are often very promiscuous, to a physically dangerous extent. Because to them, all relationships become sex-based. These are case by case studies obviously, but I can't find many to say someone is happy after having incest.
Abuse victims consistently show signs of depression, and even before kids are taught about 'the places under their bathing suits', they still consistently report feeling great discomfort and fear and intimidation after molestation, long before sexual thoughts are in their noggin in a meaningful way. In addition, their are the natural downsides of unhealthy children consistently produced via incestuous conception.
Maybe someday their will be some exception to the rule. But I can't find any reports about them. There may be bias in this research, of course, and for some, there definitely is. I personally think it's very dangerous, and will almost always be harmful in many ways to both parties, especially the younger. I only say this because I see very little evidence to the contrary. I'm an atheist with very flexible morality based on science, rationality, empathy and love for my fellow man. I'm going off nature, science, study and a dash of gut feeling. I genuinely think touching your sister the wrong way is going to mess both of you up later.
Oh my god, please not.
Can we please just talk about something less discusting and horrible.
I remember another Thread about this horrible topic, were some idiot complained that you are not allowed to have sex with your sister in Dragon Age 2.
Seriously what is wrong with you people?
I have a really big family and i can't imagine being only the slightest sexually interested in someone of my own blood. Disctusting.
Can we please just talk about something less discusting and horrible.
I remember another Thread about this horrible topic, were some idiot complained that you are not allowed to have sex with your sister in Dragon Age 2.
Seriously what is wrong with you people?
I have a really big family and i can't imagine being only the slightest sexually interested in someone of my own blood. Disctusting.
It's only wrong if you have kids with someone you're related to. Other than that, whatever floats your boat.
when you think about it...this brings forth an interesting paralell with homosexuality
because when you think about it alot of us (as it seems here) feel somewhat repulsed by the Idea of incest
and this is likely how many feel about homosexuality
Ive defended homosexuality before online and such....when I really think about it it would feel hypocritical to deamonise incest.....
I think when most people consider this (people on the more lax side) I think they mean somthing more like a brother and sister of similar ageis....when you get older/parent and child it feels like it goes into paedophile terratory
because when you think about it alot of us (as it seems here) feel somewhat repulsed by the Idea of incest
and this is likely how many feel about homosexuality
Ive defended homosexuality before online and such....when I really think about it it would feel hypocritical to deamonise incest.....
well that is somthing interesting I hadnt considered before....Overusedname said:
I think when most people consider this (people on the more lax side) I think they mean somthing more like a brother and sister of similar ageis....when you get older/parent and child it feels like it goes into paedophile terratory
That's fine be me.Vivi22 said:
I merely pointed out that incest is sick, science and logic be damned.
It's funny, I have a mother/son fetish but IRL I look down upon it and think it's morally wrong and gross. Yeah, my brain hates me.
Also, what is with everyone misspelling "disgusting" as discusting? Is that an american/british thing like grey and gray?
Also, what is with everyone misspelling "disgusting" as discusting? Is that an american/british thing like grey and gray?
I wouldn't engage it at all
but I think that, if it's consensual, let 'em do it
just spare me the details =P
but I think that, if it's consensual, let 'em do it
just spare me the details =P
As a geneticist I thought I would add an amusing tipbit to this.
If your parents are brother and sister, then it is technically possible for you to have the exact same DNA as a single on of your grandparents and therefore functionally be a clone of them.
In practice this is virtually impossible but still amusing to think about, in a slightly sick and twisted way.
If your parents are brother and sister, then it is technically possible for you to have the exact same DNA as a single on of your grandparents and therefore functionally be a clone of them.
In practice this is virtually impossible but still amusing to think about, in a slightly sick and twisted way.
A few decades ago, homosexuality also had a pretty bad track record, simply because most gays were in the closet, so man of the ones who got outed were the ones caught with their pants down, often while raping someone, thus enforcing the stereotype that gays are depraved pedophiles, and generally sex-obsessed people who would fuck anything that moves.Overusedname said:
Maybe the same is the case with incest. It's such a big taboo, that even if an average person doesn't feel the westermarck effect as strongly as others, they would rather deny getting turned on by family members, or at least do it secretly, so we don't see them having well-adjusted incestous relationships, and the only ones that don't follow that, are the ones with abnormally strong sex drives, or otherwise unwilling the follow cultural norms.
What's your stance on allowing people with genetic disorders to reproduce?Sparrow said:
As for me personally, I can't say I've ever had some burgeoning urge to fuck my brother. But as for what other people get up to, as long as it's consensual and no children come of that relationship, then let the motherfuckers do what they will.
Yeah....no. I mean, consenting adults and all that, but I can't see how engaging in incest wouldn't alter you psychologically for the worse, and you can't 100% guarantee that mutant babies wouldn't happen. If that happens, then it isn't harmless anymore, someone has to live their life messed up because of your poor choices.
Oh, an incest thread, that was different.
Well incest is one of those subjects I really don't know how to feel. The entire world and media says we should hate it, that it'a repulsive, a thing of the devil, etc. And in most cases I would agree, especially if it's non consent (or parental incest, even if it's consent it's way to creepy to me). But then I stop to think about it, yes it's weird, yes we're expected to develop a non-sexual love for members of our family, but honestly...if the internet existed 60 years ago and someone made a thread about homosexuality everybody would be disgusted, say it's wrong, that it's weird and then there would be that tiny amount of people that would say there's nothing wrong with it. So when I stop to think about it...god I can't believe I'm writing this...a brother and sister in love with each other....it's really not that wrong... OK, it's still weird and extremely different than what society expects from people...and if we stop to think about it...we're all 100¹²³¹²³¹²³ degree cousins. Well, that's basically what I think about it. Weird and unsettling? Yes. Different than what society wants? Definitely. Moraly wrong? Well...not really.
Ok, now if you excuse me, I don't want to talk about this ever again.
Oh, I was supposed to say if I would participate in incest in my life? Ok, here's the short answer: No. Long Answer: Noooooooooooooooooo.
Well incest is one of those subjects I really don't know how to feel. The entire world and media says we should hate it, that it'a repulsive, a thing of the devil, etc. And in most cases I would agree, especially if it's non consent (or parental incest, even if it's consent it's way to creepy to me). But then I stop to think about it, yes it's weird, yes we're expected to develop a non-sexual love for members of our family, but honestly...if the internet existed 60 years ago and someone made a thread about homosexuality everybody would be disgusted, say it's wrong, that it's weird and then there would be that tiny amount of people that would say there's nothing wrong with it. So when I stop to think about it...god I can't believe I'm writing this...a brother and sister in love with each other....it's really not that wrong... OK, it's still weird and extremely different than what society expects from people...and if we stop to think about it...we're all 100¹²³¹²³¹²³ degree cousins. Well, that's basically what I think about it. Weird and unsettling? Yes. Different than what society wants? Definitely. Moraly wrong? Well...not really.
Ok, now if you excuse me, I don't want to talk about this ever again.
Oh, I was supposed to say if I would participate in incest in my life? Ok, here's the short answer: No. Long Answer: Noooooooooooooooooo.
How? I what love to see what evidence you base this on.Signa said:
The same could be said about absolutely any couple and is a ridiculous thing to try and hang your hat on in making incest illegal or taboo. And the implication that a child growing up with some genetic disorder can't have an perfectly enjoyable life is kind of offensive.
You raise a good point. I almost noted the comparison with the anti-gay propaganda, but I hesitated as my research of the issue has yielded millions of well adjusted gay couples (many with children), and no such luck for incest. I can find well-adjusted, happy and loving polygamists, who are perhaps just as hated as people engaged in incest.Entitled said:
Perhaps a good example exists. It's very hard to find any. The cultural stigma is strong, but maybe it really is harming the people involved.
If I'm presented with evidence to the contrary, I'll listen and reevaluate my thoughts. I've learned to always question what I hear. Consider how hated polygamy is, it's interesting I was able to find well-adjusted examples of it. I can't find any for incest without problems directly linked to social, psychological and sexual health issues.
I know this wasn't aimed at me, but just wanted to comment. Decent comparison there...I would encourage adoption myself, but considering the fact that we all have genetic problems...well, you know. We'd die out with those standards. I wouldn't bar people with disorder from reproduction. No one should.
But I don't support incest for other reasons, so I still wouldn't support it for incest. And the severity of the genetic consequences line up with the other seemingly damaging effects, leaning toward our bodies and science screaming 'don't do this' on a natural level. Sophisticated mammals, our cousins, have set up social norms that seem to minimize incest naturally, free of moral conditioning, where as homosexuality in animals runs rampant and is harmless. This is true of Apes and wolves, for example. These creatures function on raw instinct. Incest is still in the animal kingdom all over the place, but for the ones most similar to us, it seems to be minimal.
Show me a reasonable amount of happy, healthy people who do it, and fine. It should be legal.
Well seeing as I'm an only child...
Okay but really no I wouldn't. The idea of it just grosses me out and you'd have to be a super far removed relative to even consider it.
I have a third cousin like a billion times removed who's super smoking though but that's besides the point. Children don't really get into incest I think it's just experimenting and exploring the opposite sexes body. It's pretty much how I learned girls don't have 'peepees'.
Okay but really no I wouldn't. The idea of it just grosses me out and you'd have to be a super far removed relative to even consider it.
I have a third cousin like a billion times removed who's super smoking though but that's besides the point. Children don't really get into incest I think it's just experimenting and exploring the opposite sexes body. It's pretty much how I learned girls don't have 'peepees'.
1. The nervous system of every non-asexual organism is wired to be attracted to those of the opposite sex. It happens all over the Earth, from bugs to humans.
2. Genetics say that "crossing the streams"/"genetic non-diversity" causes issues, mainly because submissive problem genes (genetic disorders) have a higher chance of appearing due to how siblings can have the same genes. Genetic diversity lowers, but does not prevent, the chance that these submissive genes can appear.
I'm saying that its OK what you do behind closed doors. I'm never one to bash you on your beliefs, just as long as you do not inflict them on me. Incest? If the other was attractive enough, and it was consensual, possibly. I would wear protection simply because of #2. Would I seek it out? No. I have someone, who is outside of my family.
If I was forced to tell someone if they should or shouldn't do it, I say that they should do it if the attraction is consensual, but I would not publicly advertise it, and wear protection.
2. Genetics say that "crossing the streams"/"genetic non-diversity" causes issues, mainly because submissive problem genes (genetic disorders) have a higher chance of appearing due to how siblings can have the same genes. Genetic diversity lowers, but does not prevent, the chance that these submissive genes can appear.
I'm saying that its OK what you do behind closed doors. I'm never one to bash you on your beliefs, just as long as you do not inflict them on me. Incest? If the other was attractive enough, and it was consensual, possibly. I would wear protection simply because of #2. Would I seek it out? No. I have someone, who is outside of my family.
If I was forced to tell someone if they should or shouldn't do it, I say that they should do it if the attraction is consensual, but I would not publicly advertise it, and wear protection.
The trouble is that it's not only so stigmatized that you may never find examples of it, but in many places it also happens to be illegal if I'm not mistaken (I'm almost positive it is to some extent in Canada). I'd bet most people who engage in it that are otherwise healthy and well adjusted are also so afraid of going to prison that they try very hard to make sure no one finds out.Overusedname said:
I think and read somewhere that genetically there is nothing that makes you reject family as a love interest.
Instead it is the act of living together for a long time that makes people stop looking at each other as love interest. (I think it was discovery channel or something that said this)
I am not really sure how true this theory is because that means married couples lose interest in each other too, but any how....
Instead it is the act of living together for a long time that makes people stop looking at each other as love interest. (I think it was discovery channel or something that said this)
I am not really sure how true this theory is because that means married couples lose interest in each other too, but any how....