Increasingly skinny women in video games?

[LookAtYouHacker]

Who ever said anything about obese bush pigs? I'm talking about the considerable degradation of athletic, muscular women in video games. There's a difference!

You could complain about real life instead.

Check "women in military" photos and chose the believable ones. They are most times skinny and not muscular.

I find it highly amusing that you're touting that people having fat on their bodies doesn't make them obese, but haven't considered that skinny people can be strong and fit enough to be heroes/heroines.

I knew someone would accuse me of that. Like beauty, I'm well aware strength can come in many forms (not only in physical ones)

 

[Amaror]

The reason this is still a problem is because men actually don?t give a shit about it. They couldn?t care less how impractically revealing Ivy's costume in Soul Calibur is, because they?re not women and they want to get their jollies off to some good old-fashioned fanservice (even though they could just Rule 34 it on the internet). To put it simply, they still hold the power in this industry and probably will do for sometime, and they're not speaking out because it's a non-issue to them. They'd rather moan about unoriginality, or unsatisfying endings to video games.

Well then guess how many men are in this thread right now, complaining about unrealistic body shapes of women.

 

[theultimateend]

I have met women who are also infuriated by the fact men perceive all this as justifiable, as they are also suggesting women do not and should not be allowed to express sexual liberty.

End of rant.

I agree. It's stupid that men might find this acceptable.

When is the last time a male character had powers far exceeding their physical size?

Spoiler: besides this

Spoiler: and this

Spoiler: and this

Spoiler: and this

Or wait, maybe I'm looking at this wrong . Maybe its just that women are the only ones who get stuck with impossible to realize figures in entertainment. Men would never be stuck with thousands of walking Adonis' to deal with

Spoiler: besides this

Spoiler: and this

Spoiler: and this

OR! Perhaps we can stop being children and realize that games are full of either Adonis' or Aprhodites.

Case in point. There is what, a single character in this game that is overweight? Even the Sumo Wrestler is more ripped than the worlds strongest man. And you could easily find hundreds if not thousands of examples continuing on into the future.

People see what they want to see, this is a nonissue unless we throw aside gender and just look at the fact that EVERYONE is idolized in these games.

PS. Count the square inches of skin shown by men and women in a fighting game. I'd hazard that men are showing more overall in just about everything save for possibly Soul Calibur. "But dude it doesn't count if its just ANY skin." Well that's a social trope, not every nation is as puritan as ours. Many of them are what I'd like to call "normal".

 

[ProtoChimp]

Yes I find it increasingly silly. It's nothing really to do with weight though, it's just a consequence of weight being related to attractiveness socially. Women are made up to be attractive in games, despite how impractical that may be...

...what... game is that?

 

[theultimateend]

Yes I find it increasingly silly. It's nothing really to do with weight though, it's just a consequence of weight being related to attractiveness socially. Women are made up to be attractive in games, despite how impractical that may be...

...what... game is that?

Tera I believe.

It's a Korean game (afaik) which would make the outfits make sense since Anime tends to be about overstylized stuff.

http://www.eximiusclan.com/threads/4742-Tera-400-Suits-of-armor

 

[Aprilgold]

Have you [i/]seen[/i] Final Fantasy lately. At least one dude has masturbated to one of those rabbit chicks.

....do they even need that as a selling point? its not like the internet doesnt have an abundance of whatever your into

there's really no need for it in games

Its not a selling point as it is a unconscious decision. Work on something for a long time and with little break in between in a boring cubicle and your mind will wander down your imaginations pants.

Have you ever the joke about how the flowers look slightly like vaginas? Well thats what I'm getting it.

 

[Kahunaburger]

People see what they want to see, this is a nonissue unless we throw aside gender and just look at the fact that EVERYONE is idolized in these games.

Adonis and Aphrodite is a somewhat inaccurate way to describe it - better would be Conan [http://jimhines.livejournal.com/628418.html] and the unnamed woman clinging to his ankle. [http://www.jimchines.com/2012/01/striking-a-pose/]

 

[Ickorus]

Lately I've actually been seeing more and more capable women in games, some even use sexuality as a weapon which I don't think is a particularly bad thing.

I don't really have a problem with attractive characters in my games though my definition of attractive appears to be vastly different to that of quite a few studios. (Not a fan of anthropomorphic lamp posts with gigantic breasts)

I don't like the entire armor bikini thing going on at the moment though, it just looks silly.

Have you seen the Snow White movie? Kristen Stewart wears some more realistic armor and it looks really good even though you could just as easily stick it on a male character.

Remember Chris Redfield? He used to look like this...

Spoiler

And now he looks like this...

Spoiler

And people don't seem to be upset about stuff like that? Really?

Fact of the matter is that neither gender tends to be represented particularly well in games.

HIS BICEPS ARE BIGGER THAN HIS HEAD.

CAPSLOCK.

 

[Angryman101]

But your negative perceptions of yourself were also because of society's desired beauty ideal. I think you're being very shallow, sorry.

Society had nothing to do with it. I was ashamed because I was lazy and had quit playing sports and working out and instead stayed in and ate and did nothing with my life. Oh wait, society told me laziness and living an unfulfilled life was bad too, huh?
It's cool if you're unhappy as long as you convince yourself its not you, it's SOCIETY's fault!
There's a reason children cry when confronted with obese adults, and it isn't society affecting their perception, I'll tell you that much.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Ugh, I hate to break it to you but this isn't just games. This is an underlying sexism present in all media and informed by centuries of sexual discrimination. That's not to say its not bad but analyzing this only as a game issue is treating symptoms and not the disease.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

But your negative perceptions of yourself were also because of society's desired beauty ideal. I think you're being very shallow, sorry.

Society had nothing to do with it. I was ashamed because I was lazy and had quit playing sports and working out and instead stayed in and ate and did nothing with my life. Oh wait, society told me laziness and living an unfulfilled life was bad too, huh?
It's cool if you're unhappy as long as you convince yourself its not you, it's SOCIETY's fault!
There's a reason children cry when confronted with obese adults, and it isn't society affecting their perception, I'll tell you that much.

You make some good points at least.

 

[LookAtYouHacker]

Ugh, I hate to break it to you but this isn't just games. This is an underlying sexism present in all media and informed by centuries of sexual discrimination. That's not to say its not bad but analyzing this only as a game issue is treating symptoms and not the disease.

I just want to say I LOVE the original Twilight Zone. I'm even planning on making some custom episodes.

 

[TheCommanders]

Ah yes, because men are portrayed so fairly in video games.

These men look totally realistic and force no ideas of masculine perfection onto impressionable young men:

http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob/gearscole.jpeg
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2009/225/kratos01-Render_71611_640screen.jpg
http://files.redux.com/images/5e877d20f0190cef5fe201ec43728fc1/raw

Gasp, but TheCommanders - those men are supposed to be all buff and masculine, they're heroes, and exceptional specimens!
Oh, I see, and the women that you are complaining about are all normal people living average lives are they?
Uh....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is not an issue here. But it's not (for the most part) an issue of sexism. It's an issue that has do to the escapist nature of games, authors typically feel that portraying people realisticly would make the game world less fantastical, or the heroes less... heroic. Sometimes the ridiculous body types are a result of a particular art style, other times as a reflection of their role in games. For this issue to go away, game developers need to realize that some gamers are mature, and want mature realistic characters, not poster children. And some games do!

For all the ridiculously over the top characters in many of the titles mentioned in this thread, there are completely normal people, of both genders being portrayed realistically in other games. Why aren't these the topic of discussion? Because games that do a good job of portraying people realistically don't make anyone angry. And these discussions are only ever started out of anger or outrage. There will always be juvenile portrayals of both genders in games for the same reason that there will always be extremely attractive people populating the best selling hollywood titles: it's entertaining.

There are games that portray women misogynistically, but that's more a result of human nature and the entertainment industry than some bull about "unrealistic standards of beauty" or whatever the codswallop is called now a days. Asking people to be healthy isn't creating an unrealistic portrayal of anything, and the people complaining about this sort of thing are usually doing so from a place of insecurity. Being attractive is always going to be desirable, and while not everyone is expected to be some kind of supermodel, being healthy is not just a societal pressure, it's a good idea.

Not sure if that was at all coherent, but there's my 2 cents.

 

[Brad Calkins]

Muscle size has a rather... dubious connection to actual strength. Varvara Akulova is a perfect example, in her early teens she weighed 40 kilos and could lift 350 kilos. Definition has a much more clear relationship with overall fitness, just not the one you're thinking of. As it turns out, the only thing standing between you and 6-pack abs is a healthy calorie intake, muscle definition actually comes from starvation.

 

[HigherTomorrow]

No one wants to play as ugly female characters.

No one wants to play as ugly male characters.

Therefore, the inverse is to sexualize everything.

Unfortunate fact that has to be accepted about ALL kinds of entertainment.

 

[Skoosh]

Tired of hearing people say that men are portrayed just as poorly. Male figures are empowering and seen as desirable to male players. They make them feel suave or badass or whatever. Yes, Redfield has unrealistically large arms, but that's not a common female sexual fantasy. Whereas long legs and large breasts are common male sexual fantasies. The males in videogames are either a blank slate of badass or an actual character, where as the females are often depicted as object, with their body twisting into an impossible shape for the sake of arousal. There are a few exceptions, but they are rare. The overall trend is still very sexist. Yes, the males are unrealistic, but not sexualized. They aren't catering to females, they are unrealistic in the ways many males want.

 

[Akukaishi]

Next you'll be telling us that female characters in video games tend to have big boobs.

(Yeah, it's stupid. Reminds me of this podcast with a Tribes: Ascend dev where they talked about adding female armor types, but ran into a snag where they couldn't figure out how to make them attractive.)

...you don't. They're soldiers, not pin-up girls. Idiotic devs. *sigh*

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

But being supportive of equality between the sexes is feminism, whether or not you affiliate with any particular group or not. Nor do you have to agree with their methods. Do you support equal rights for men and women? If yes, you are, in the colloquial sense (which is what I'm talking about), feminist. I'm not saying you have to call yourself feminist, it's just when someone (like the first person I replied to) says they aren't a feminist, most people will automatically assume they aren't for all of this. It's a simple matter of clarity, which is important on the internet.

I do not consider that to be the definition of feminism.

That's nice, but it is the definition of feminism. You can similarly believe that the moon is made of cheese, but that doesn't make it so. Opinion =/= fact. Sorry.

it does not accurately describe all major feminist organizations active right now

It does, actually, describe them 100% accurately. Researching what "all major feminists and feminist organisations want" does not mean that you watch fox news for 5 minutes and conclude you know everything now. It would imply actually talking to and listening to said feminists.

In other words: You did not do your research. Complete and utter research failure right there.

If people assume that being against feminism means being against equality or against women, that is their own problem for failing to educate themselves sufficiently and they will not be worth speaking to until they have rectified their mistake.

No, the only one that isn't educated here is you. Again: Please stop watching foxnews for your education.
As many studies and examples like you prove, that drives your level of information down, not up. You are, indeed, not really worth speaking too until you start doing your research.


The way you are talking about feminists is, hilariously enough, the exact way whiny people claim feminists act:
Taking a few individuals out of context and pretending the whole is like that. Using your flawed logic, all men are clearly terrible. I can just copypaste your flawed arguments in there to support that. So go you, crusader for faulty logic and bad research

Ad hominem. How nice. That certainly shows you're arguing in good faith and it's certainly a great way to convince someone who was just complaining about formal logical fallacies.

Calling out someone on committing ad hominam is itself the fallacy of argumentum ad logicam. Nice.

It is certainly true that some, quite possibly even most feminists work for equality, but working for equality cannot be an inherent quality of feminism because there have been, and are still, groups which identify themselves as feminist and are not in favor of equality.

Then they are wrong. The definition of feminism is: The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
Therefor, if they aren't an advocate of equality, they aren't feminist.

I'll leave the rest to the person you actually replied to.

 

[Ryotknife]

Yeah, I remember mentioning this to someone once. We're making steps in the right direction by involving fuller figure ladies in other media such as movies, TV and music. Then viddyagames are just like, "lol nope. rake-thin girls plz."

Not saying thin is unattractive, unless unhealthy but I don't particularly like girls who are so skinny they don't cast a show being in every game.
I thought Serah from FFXIII was insane! There's no way she would be healthy >.<

yea, i found sarah from FF13 to be un-attractive, waaaay too skinny.

 

[Ryotknife]

Tired of hearing people say that men are portrayed just as poorly. Male figures are empowering and seen as desirable to male players. They make them feel suave or badass or whatever. Yes, Redfield has unrealistically large arms, but that's not a common female sexual fantasy. Whereas long legs and large breasts are common male sexual fantasies. The males in videogames are either a blank slate of badass or an actual character, where as the females are often depicted as object, with their body twisting into an impossible shape for the sake of arousal. There are a few exceptions, but they are rare. The overall trend is still very sexist. Yes, the males are unrealistic, but not sexualized. They aren't catering to females, they are unrealistic in the ways many males want.

err..they are not catering to any guys i know.

badassery is more an attitude thing than physical characteristics. Dante from the devil may cry series is a badass, but doesnt look like he can benchlift a bus (although he probably could due to demon powers). compare this to the gears of war or even the characters in starcraft 2 and they look RIDICULOUS.

so no, they are not conforming to the way males want.

is the guy in decent shape? check. thats the entire physical checklist.

everything else is attitude, aptitude, and acquisitions.