Indiana Senate Bill 167: Holy crap, what a mess.

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tstorm823

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Ultimately we know that Trump's claims about he secretly won the election were a bunch of gibberish. No judge has acknowledged that there was a case to be had, no investigation has concluded that Biden magically managed to convince Republican election officials to somehow swing the vote in his favor. Meanwhile its a well established fact that the Republicans fiercely engage in gerrymandering and voter suppression, with a judges directly calling them out on it.
a) You don't understand the things you're disputing. It's not "Trump secretly won", it's "Democrats publicly changed all the rules in their favor."
b) Judges are just people, their opinions aren't omniscient.
Kinda curious how these um....''accidents'' then go on to conviniently obstruct Democratic voters and minorities while seemingly not doing the same to Republican voters. If you doubt that anyone is targeting racial demographics then you're probably in the minority.
The majority of people can be wrong about things. You're trying to argue by means of peer pressure.
And drinking water is against state or federal policies? If we pretend that this is true then its rather telling that Republicans put more effort in banning those breaks for ''being against federal policies'' than they do trying to amend those policies to allow people their water breaks. Or could ''drinking water being against state or federal polices'' perhaps be a pretext, a technicality that they cling to a technicality in order to ban those breaks so they don't intrude on corporate profit?
Stop, reread what I wrote, maybe go for a walk, then come back and finish this post....

Now that you've presumedly returned from your walk, let's try this again. The bill which people claim removes water breaks says nothing about water breaks. What it said is that localities in Texas cannot institute employment policies at different standards than state and federal policies. The inspiration for the bill was cities passing long mandatory minimum paid sick leave requirements. It was not intended to touch water breaks. Opponents of the bill claimed the broad language would undo a local ordinance in Dallas which requires construction sites to have a 10-minute water break every 4 hours... OSHA already requires employers to provide water to employees on demand, and recommends stopping to drink in hot climates every 15-minutes. This water break law didn't overshoot the federal guidelines, it undershot them by like a factor of 10, the bill in Texas would not have touched that water break bill.

But hey, the propaganda works, because by the time it gets to you, all you get out of it is "Republicans want to take away people's water breaks!"
 

TheMysteriousGX

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a) It might not be deliberate. If people live in segregated geographies, it very likely takes a deliberate effort to not "gerrymander" them. Democratic voters packing into congested urban areas does more to crack and pack than anyone could possibly do by just drawing the lines. A certified judge is not guaranteed to recognize this.
Lmao, it's absolutely deliberate. Those urban voters aren't congregating into the inner city voluntarily, there was over a century of segregation and red-lining doing that. That they end up voting democrat isn't some gerrymandering ploy, it's the conservatives being racist.
b) You shouldn't assume anything was done with the best intentions, but you should not just assume anything is done with the worst intentions. "You shouldn't resent people doing what they genuinely think if right"
So I shouldn't resent somebody lobotomizing their kid because they genuinely think they doing the right thing? I shouldn't resent the KKK because the KKK thinks they're genuinely doing the right thing? I shouldn't resent anti-vaxxers for bringing back measles because they genuinely believe they're doing the right thing? I shouldn't resent contra death squads because they genuinely believed they were doing the right thing?

Where the fuck do you draw the line?
To make an actual statement, I highly doubt anyone is targeting racial demographics with surgical precision. There are tons of correlating variables here (you know, the "people live in cities" joke), and gerrymandering is rarely done for broader purposes than protecting specific, individual candidates.
So, when a governing body asks for racial demographic information to determine how different races vote, then enacting legislation targeting voting rights that coincidentally matches those statistics, that's not targeting racial demographics? And it's okay to do that because they're simply "protecting specific individual candidates" in gerrymandered districts? That's an acceptable reason to pull bullshit like Dan Crenshaw's district?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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a) You don't understand the things you're disputing. It's not "Trump secretly won", it's "Democrats publicly changed all the rules in their favor."
Unless you can prove that those votes came from people who didn't have a right to vote, that's a garbage argument that proves the GOP can only win by denying people legal votes
 

tstorm823

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Unless you can prove that those votes came from people who didn't have a right to vote, that's a garbage argument that proves the GOP can only win by denying people legal votes
I feel like I'm saying this a lot, proof is a stupid standard for an argument.

I'm not interested in making the argument in the first place, I don't think there were significant numbers of fraudulent or ineligible votes cast, but also your premise here is wrong. Republicans don't want voting to be hard, nor do Democrats want it to be easy, both parties want voting to be easy for only their voters. Which is why the Democrats running PA's elections (and the judges who let them get away with whatever they wanted) shut down polling places where older people live, recommended they figure out voting by mail or just not vote, and then opened early in-person voting in only the bluest city in the state.
 

tstorm823

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Black authors is aggressive leftism?
No, that's precisely what I'm saying. Black authors aren't aggressive leftism, hence, people opposing aggressive leftism aren't opposing all the black authors.
"I use hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence." - Lionel Hutz
Proof is not a stupid standard when deciding to punish someone in a court of law. We are not in a court of law. We can freely discuss truths that are difficult or impossible to prove either way. Demanding proof from someone in a setting like this is stubborn, aggressive ignorance.
 

Bedinsis

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the Democrats running PA's elections (and the judges who let them get away with whatever they wanted) shut down polling places where older people live, recommended they figure out voting by mail or just not vote, and then opened early in-person voting in only the bluest city in the state.
I've never heard of this. I have heard of voter suppression in Georgia by Republican Brian Kemp and of Republican installed voter ID laws in North Carolina that targeted African Americans with almost surgical precision, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are Democrats that have done something similar. Got a link?
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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No, that's precisely what I'm saying. Black authors aren't aggressive leftism, hence, people opposing aggressive leftism aren't opposing all the black authors.
...so who is opposing the black authors under threat of CRT?
 

Silvanus

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Demanding proof from someone in a setting like this is stubborn, aggressive ignorance.
Demanding evidence isn't, though.

If we don't ask for evidence, or an actual solid reason to believe something, then all we have are insinuations and speculation, invariably aimed at people we don't like.
 

tstorm823

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I've never heard of this. I have heard of voter suppression in Georgia by Republican Brian Kemp and of Republican installed voter ID laws in North Carolina that targeted African Americans with almost surgical precision, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are Democrats that have done something similar. Got a link?
You've heard of what the Democrat-run media want you to hear.

Pennsylvania made a bunch of changes in voting policy for the 2020 election, because of the pandemic. That, in itself, is reasonable. But with Democrats having both the Governor and Supreme Court of Pennsylvania on their side, they basically did what they wanted. The most controversial is this: https://www.philadelphiavotes.com/e...satellite_election_offices_on_a_rolling_basis

Just Philadelphia, the single major Democratic stronghold that keeps PA purple instead of red, opened up in-person early voting. Pennsylvania doesn't have in-person early voting (though laws are changing as we speak, so maybe that's already outdated, but we didn't in 2020). In order to rationalize their violation of election rules, which were updated in 2019 with bipartisan support, they pretended what they were doing was mail-in voting because that's the one way to legally vote early in PA. You can request a ballot by mail or online, they mail you a ballot, and you can either mail it in or drop it at the county elections office. Philadelphia decided that if you request a ballot in person, fill it out, and then immediately hand it back, that's counts as the same thing as dropping at the elections office. They also decided to open 9 satellite facilities to operate out of, and still counted that as handing it in at the county election office. What any of this has to do with covid, I don't know, but the executive and judicial branches of PA's government let them do it. No place else in the state was doing early voting (cause it violated the law), only the place where all the Democrats live.

Funny enough, this lead to one of the best single lines to come out of the debates that year: Bad things happen in Philadelphia. Because the city argued that their satellite voting offices weren't technically polling places, they didn't have to let the campaigns see what they were doing, and the media actually ran cover for that argument, acting as though Trump was making up stories since obviously PA doesn't have early voting.

It's also why on election night, it looked like Trump was winning at first, because we count the mail in votes at the end, and 1/3rd of all registered voters in Philadelphia submitted "mail-in ballots" The city just blatantly violated the rules, and played stupid rhetorical games so that the media could pretend they were doing something legitimate. The rest of the state didn't have the privilege of rulebreaking early voting, only the city where Democrats live.

And maybe you think, well there was a pandemic and changing things up makes sense. Sure. But then we consider people seriously effected by the pandemic: the elderly, who had polling places moved away from them, and in many cases were basically trapped in their homes by the guidance of of the state. And when advocates asked "hey, what are you doing to help these people vote", the answer was that they "could apply to vote by mail". Mind you, that came from the office of Rachel Levine, who Biden appointed assistant health secretary of the US a few months after.

If you imagine for a moment the level of uproar there would be if a bunch of polling places were moved away from Democratic voters, at the same time as extraordinary measures were being used to get Republicans voting, and the Republican officials consolation was "well, they can apply to vote by mail"... I don't know, maybe you'll get an idea how the parties aren't terribly different in their tactics, it's just the coverage that varies so extremely.
 

tstorm823

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Demanding evidence isn't, though.

If we don't ask for evidence, or an actual solid reason to believe something, then all we have are insinuations and speculation, invariably aimed at people we don't like.
I agree, and that's a different question entirely. Somebody asking for evidence is looking for a convincing argument. Someone demanding proof is making excuses to not even consider an argument.
 

Avnger

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Snip to satisfy post length
tldr: Tstorm is angry that legal votes were cast by legal voters. Making it easier and safer to vote in densely populated areas during a global pandemic is "bad," but tailoring election laws to hinder racial minorities from voting is "good."
 

Trunkage

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No, no it isn't. Do you really think that bigotry is the only reason to oppose aggressive leftism?
Make it about aggressive Leftism then

Dont make it about women/African Americans/trans/minority being in my game/movie/book

Since I just watched Eternals, I saw some reviews about. The reviews were usually about it being a mess storywise. Guess what the Anti-SJWs were blaming it on. Because it sure ain't the story. Putting an Indian into your story does automatically make it bad

This wouldn't be so obviously stupid if men didn't get a hundred poorly written movies per year in the 80s that people forgot about. That were way crappier than any Ghostbusters or Captain Marvel. That's what you might call 'Forced Masculinity.' Because god it was forced in Predator. And Rambo after one. Terminator. James Bond. Let alone the crappy ones like Land of Doom, ROTOR, Beast with a Gun and Hard Ticket to Hawaii

Then we would have to keep pointing out that most movies aren't successful. It's okay if the 355 doesn't make money. It doesn't mean other movies with women in it are going to be bad

But hey. What were we talking about again... Aggressive leftism. Women, turning up on movies... is aggressive leftism. If this is what 'Aggressive Leftism' is than count me as being Aggressively Lefties. Women and minorities can have their crappily written movies too.

I cannot understand why a woman being the lead means it has to be good or perfect otherwise it forced diversity. It can just be crap
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I agree, and that's a different question entirely. Somebody asking for evidence is looking for a convincing argument. Someone demanding proof is making excuses to not even consider an argument.
So, a literal semantic argument
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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tldr: Tstorm is angry that legal votes were cast by legal voters. Making it easier and safer to vote in densely populated areas during a global pandemic is "bad," but tailoring election laws to hinder racial minorities from voting is "good."
I especially love how he blames people living in Philadelphia as the dastardly reason that Pennsylvania is purple instead of red.

Remember kids, urban voters count as less people than rural voters