Infamous 2: How not to do moral choice. (Spoiler free.)

[MasterMongoose0]

One key distinction people don't seem to get is that "bad" Cole isn't necessarily "evil." I see him more as a (exaggerated) Renegade Shepard. He still does good guy stuff. He just does it his own way and doesn't care for consequences.

Cole is never told to straight massacre civilians. Sure, you get evil karma points for it, but it's a slow, tedious route to becoming "infamous."

Bad Cole cares about Cole. His choices in the game with respects to that make sense. There's not really any "player choice" to me, it's just choosing which of two stories you want to follow, unless you want to be a devious miscreant and try to be gray- and see how the long the game lets you do that...

 

[Kahunaburger]

How did it turn the complicated question into a simple binary choice? I'm saying the Karma meter was just a random annoyance. It didn't have anything to DO with the faction system at all.

You could theoretically be a lying, stinking thief and still fight to liberate Vegas. Or you could do a lot of favors for the Followers, helping freeside, even if you're working for the "supposedly evil" Caesar. It wasn't a binary choice at ALL.

The problem is that the morality system seems to think NCR=good, Ceasar=evil. While I personally may agree with that, it's not a good thing to include in a setting that has a degree of ambiguity. And as I said before, if a morality system is best ignored, it's not a good morality system

Here's why you think that: In New Vegas you hang around in NCR areas, more than you hang around in Legion areas. Towns like Novac, or Primm, or MojaveOutpost are some of the first places you go to in the game and they are all NCR controlled areas. And you're obviously going to find NCR supporters in those areas. So that NCR=good opinion is just what you're hearing from biased Fanboys; everyone ELSE in the Wasteland (ask the Followers) keeps repeating that the NCR are Inefficient, corrupt bureaucrats that will suck the Mojave dry.

On the other hand, in the few Legion areas (places a lot of people don't even GO to) Caesar is, unsurprisingly, praised to be the good guy. It's just that most people don't even bother GOING to those places. That's not exactly the games fault, I would say.

So no, I disagree. It absolutely was NOT a black/white pre-made choice. Fallout 3's BoS vs. Enclave was a black/white system. This was not.

Yeah, of course the reputation system isn't black-and-white. But the Karma system certainly is, and as you said doesn't really need to be there.

 

[brinvixen]

I'm only a few missions into inFamous 2, but I find its morality system to be much better than inFamous. Both games follow the idea that it's better to be "all the way good" or "all the way evil", but I think 2 handles it's evil options better. At least story mission wise (I'm playing as Good Cole right now, so I haven't done any of the evil side missions, so I don't know what those are like). The "evil" options for the story missions seem just as plausible and warrant some kind of merit, just like the "good" ones. I feel like inFamous 2 displays rather well that there isn't any true good or evil, just misunderstood sides.

As for the morality system in general: I think mainly because inFamous is a superhero game is why you have to be either GOOD or EVIL, and not something in between. Personally I don't know any kind of super person whose neutral. They're either heroes or villains. inFamous 2 (and 1) are just playing by the same rule. So that's why you have good missions and evil missions, blue points and red points, so that you can define yourself as either a hero or a villain. It makes sense to me that way.

But, like I said, I'm only a few missions in. I could be way off base. But I'm enjoying the game. The Karma system doesn't anger me. Still feels like one of the better game purchases I've made in a while.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

How did it turn the complicated question into a simple binary choice? I'm saying the Karma meter was just a random annoyance. It didn't have anything to DO with the faction system at all.

You could theoretically be a lying, stinking thief and still fight to liberate Vegas. Or you could do a lot of favors for the Followers, helping freeside, even if you're working for the "supposedly evil" Caesar. It wasn't a binary choice at ALL.

The problem is that the morality system seems to think NCR=good, Ceasar=evil. While I personally may agree with that, it's not a good thing to include in a setting that has a degree of ambiguity. And as I said before, if a morality system is best ignored, it's not a good morality system

Here's why you think that: In New Vegas you hang around in NCR areas, more than you hang around in Legion areas. Towns like Novac, or Primm, or MojaveOutpost are some of the first places you go to in the game and they are all NCR controlled areas. And you're obviously going to find NCR supporters in those areas. So that NCR=good opinion is just what you're hearing from biased Fanboys; everyone ELSE in the Wasteland (ask the Followers) keeps repeating that the NCR are Inefficient, corrupt bureaucrats that will suck the Mojave dry.

On the other hand, in the few Legion areas (places a lot of people don't even GO to) Caesar is, unsurprisingly, praised to be the good guy. It's just that most people don't even bother GOING to those places. That's not exactly the games fault, I would say.

So no, I disagree. It absolutely was NOT a black/white pre-made choice. Fallout 3's BoS vs. Enclave was a black/white system. This was not.

Yeah, of course the reputation system isn't black-and-white. But the Karma system certainly is, and as you said doesn't really need to be there.

It's a minute problem. It doesn't matter, and it can be ignored. And as such, it alone should not warrant you calling out New Vegas, for having "a terrible morality system" because the faction/reputation system WAS the morality system. You dig?

 

[Kahunaburger]

How did it turn the complicated question into a simple binary choice? I'm saying the Karma meter was just a random annoyance. It didn't have anything to DO with the faction system at all.

You could theoretically be a lying, stinking thief and still fight to liberate Vegas. Or you could do a lot of favors for the Followers, helping freeside, even if you're working for the "supposedly evil" Caesar. It wasn't a binary choice at ALL.

The problem is that the morality system seems to think NCR=good, Ceasar=evil. While I personally may agree with that, it's not a good thing to include in a setting that has a degree of ambiguity. And as I said before, if a morality system is best ignored, it's not a good morality system

Here's why you think that: In New Vegas you hang around in NCR areas, more than you hang around in Legion areas. Towns like Novac, or Primm, or MojaveOutpost are some of the first places you go to in the game and they are all NCR controlled areas. And you're obviously going to find NCR supporters in those areas. So that NCR=good opinion is just what you're hearing from biased Fanboys; everyone ELSE in the Wasteland (ask the Followers) keeps repeating that the NCR are Inefficient, corrupt bureaucrats that will suck the Mojave dry.

On the other hand, in the few Legion areas (places a lot of people don't even GO to) Caesar is, unsurprisingly, praised to be the good guy. It's just that most people don't even bother GOING to those places. That's not exactly the games fault, I would say.

So no, I disagree. It absolutely was NOT a black/white pre-made choice. Fallout 3's BoS vs. Enclave was a black/white system. This was not.

Yeah, of course the reputation system isn't black-and-white. But the Karma system certainly is, and as you said doesn't really need to be there.

It's a minute problem. It doesn't matter, and it can be ignored. And as such, it alone should not warrant you calling out New Vegas, for having "a terrible morality system" because the faction/reputation system WAS the morality system. You dig?

Well, IMO the faction/rep system is a faction/rep system. Karma = morality in the Fallout universe. I really liked New Vegas, but I thought karma was tacked on.

 

[Mr. 47]

So, in short, it is exactly like inFAMOUS 1. :/

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

How did it turn the complicated question into a simple binary choice? I'm saying the Karma meter was just a random annoyance. It didn't have anything to DO with the faction system at all.

You could theoretically be a lying, stinking thief and still fight to liberate Vegas. Or you could do a lot of favors for the Followers, helping freeside, even if you're working for the "supposedly evil" Caesar. It wasn't a binary choice at ALL.

The problem is that the morality system seems to think NCR=good, Ceasar=evil. While I personally may agree with that, it's not a good thing to include in a setting that has a degree of ambiguity. And as I said before, if a morality system is best ignored, it's not a good morality system

Here's why you think that: In New Vegas you hang around in NCR areas, more than you hang around in Legion areas. Towns like Novac, or Primm, or MojaveOutpost are some of the first places you go to in the game and they are all NCR controlled areas. And you're obviously going to find NCR supporters in those areas. So that NCR=good opinion is just what you're hearing from biased Fanboys; everyone ELSE in the Wasteland (ask the Followers) keeps repeating that the NCR are Inefficient, corrupt bureaucrats that will suck the Mojave dry.

On the other hand, in the few Legion areas (places a lot of people don't even GO to) Caesar is, unsurprisingly, praised to be the good guy. It's just that most people don't even bother GOING to those places. That's not exactly the games fault, I would say.

So no, I disagree. It absolutely was NOT a black/white pre-made choice. Fallout 3's BoS vs. Enclave was a black/white system. This was not.

Yeah, of course the reputation system isn't black-and-white. But the Karma system certainly is, and as you said doesn't really need to be there.

It's a minute problem. It doesn't matter, and it can be ignored. And as such, it alone should not warrant you calling out New Vegas, for having "a terrible morality system" because the faction/reputation system WAS the morality system. You dig?

Well, IMO the faction/rep system is a faction/rep system. Karma = morality in the Fallout universe. I really liked New Vegas, but I thought karma was tacked on.

Yeah I wish they just kept it out. As I said, though, there's a mod for that, If that's consolation.

 

[Kahunaburger]

How did it turn the complicated question into a simple binary choice? I'm saying the Karma meter was just a random annoyance. It didn't have anything to DO with the faction system at all.

You could theoretically be a lying, stinking thief and still fight to liberate Vegas. Or you could do a lot of favors for the Followers, helping freeside, even if you're working for the "supposedly evil" Caesar. It wasn't a binary choice at ALL.

The problem is that the morality system seems to think NCR=good, Ceasar=evil. While I personally may agree with that, it's not a good thing to include in a setting that has a degree of ambiguity. And as I said before, if a morality system is best ignored, it's not a good morality system

Here's why you think that: In New Vegas you hang around in NCR areas, more than you hang around in Legion areas. Towns like Novac, or Primm, or MojaveOutpost are some of the first places you go to in the game and they are all NCR controlled areas. And you're obviously going to find NCR supporters in those areas. So that NCR=good opinion is just what you're hearing from biased Fanboys; everyone ELSE in the Wasteland (ask the Followers) keeps repeating that the NCR are Inefficient, corrupt bureaucrats that will suck the Mojave dry.

On the other hand, in the few Legion areas (places a lot of people don't even GO to) Caesar is, unsurprisingly, praised to be the good guy. It's just that most people don't even bother GOING to those places. That's not exactly the games fault, I would say.

So no, I disagree. It absolutely was NOT a black/white pre-made choice. Fallout 3's BoS vs. Enclave was a black/white system. This was not.

Yeah, of course the reputation system isn't black-and-white. But the Karma system certainly is, and as you said doesn't really need to be there.

It's a minute problem. It doesn't matter, and it can be ignored. And as such, it alone should not warrant you calling out New Vegas, for having "a terrible morality system" because the faction/reputation system WAS the morality system. You dig?

Well, IMO the faction/rep system is a faction/rep system. Karma = morality in the Fallout universe. I really liked New Vegas, but I thought karma was tacked on.

Yeah I wish they just kept it out. As I said, though, there's a mod for that, If that's consolation.

Haha, that's always the saving grace with games built on Bethesada engines. Don't like something? There's a mod for it