Infinite universes and moral responsibility.

[lechat]

man took me forever to think up a title fitting the context so bonus points to anyone who can think up a better one.

warning very minor bioshock spoiler!

I'm currently playing bioshock: burial at sea and I'm a couple of lazy hours in and it got me thinking, If there were infinite universes and you had the ability to travel between them and sufficient ability to effect major turning points in history (superman's powers for example) and save a few billion lives what would you do?
Sure you could go kick hitler's dad in the balls an infinite number of times but there is an infinite number more hitlers in other universes. would you just focus on one world and try for world peace and just doom the rest or would you just decide that's too many monkeys and spend your summer vacations chilling on a beach somewhere?

 

[Fox12]

Well, there are an infinite number of alternate universes out there, so everything essentially becomes meaningless.

So I'd go find the alternate universe where I married Natalie Portmen, murder my alternate self, and start a happy family with two daughters and a son.

And if I had two sons and a daughter then, damn, I guess I'll just have to start over.

 

[Risingblade]

To quote Owlman "It doesn't matter" *big boom*

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

If there's infinite universes then I have infinite versions of me to help me infinitely kill hitler. So I only have to do one to do my bit!

In this world there's 7 billion people which might as well be infinite, you'll never meet them all and in the end we will all be dust so you could call life pointless, but I still try to do good because I just want to. You don't have to fix everything ever but you can still do good.

 

[Asita]

On the Owlman front, I think it would be pertinent to actually link the clip:

Spoiler

And to be honest, there's not much point in trying to alter other universes, as every possible permeation is happening, has happened and will happen. In an infinite number of universes, the Holocaust happened as it did in ours. In another infinite number of universes, Hitler died in World War 1. In others still, he grew up as a literal slave, he was the son of the world dictator, and in others still he was never born because his parents never met, his grandfather died before his mother was conceived, his ancestors emigrated to the United States, and so on and so forth. There's no reason to interfere in other universes outside of pure curiosity, as the infinite number of permeations for every event as it occurred and did not occur renders any attempted aid meaningless in the grand scheme of things. As was so aptly put by Teal'c in one of the Stargate SG-1 multiverse episodes, "our universe is the only one that matters". Which is not to say that we're more important than the others, just that trying to 'fix' alternate universes is an exercise in futility that is better off avoided.

 

[Metailurus]

a universe much the same as this one where I picked the correct numbers for a euromillions triple rollover would be just fine.

 

[happyninja42]

Well, there are an infinite number of alternate universes out there, so everything essentially becomes meaningless.

So I'd go find the alternate universe where I married Natalie Portmen, murder my alternate self, and start a happy family with two daughters and a son.

And if I had two sons and a daughter then, damn, I guess I'll just have to start over.

The fact that there is an infinite number of universes doesn't make everything meaningless. The events that happen to the people involved still have meaning for them.

OT: I don't know if I'd focus on one universe and fix everything, or hop around. I mean, if I can be in all of them in nearly instantaneous travel, there isn't anything really stopping me from jumping around all I want.

 

[Bad Jim]

While there are an infinite number of universes, there are also an infinite number of you. The average german in the late 30s might not have been able to stop Hitler, but if all the average germans acted together they could have removed him from power. Similarly, you might not make a difference, but all the parallel versions of you with sufficient resolve might.

Complicating the matter, however, is that it is not clear what proportion of parallel Hitlers are bad eggs. Some parallel Hitlers might be genuinely good leaders, running freer, more prosperous Germanys than any current western democracy. Most probably lead respectable, ordinary lives. Strangling baby Hitlers is, IMO, just strangling babies.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I think the point of stopping Hitler was moot. Since most of his operatives were already Nazis, who's to say that if Hitler hadn't been the leader that would have stopped the whole thing? Remember while Adolf Hitler championed the practice, Germany was in such a sensitive position any leader could have scapegoated the Jewish. While he was a charismatic leader and obviously a complete nut bar to us now... Stopping him could have caused an even worse scenario. Say that without Hitler the Soviet Union took over all of Europe. How many millions more would have died just for disagreeing politically with the Government? The holocaust against the Jewish people in Europe also actually presented some important lessons; however, I fear that the world has failed to learn them.

It's satisfactory anyway but unless you can assert it will cancel a worse cataclysm, the most interesting example I can think of is a world without the americans bombing Hiroshima, with the soviets eventually learning how to create a bomb and having a full scale nuclear apocalypse since no one realizes the scale of destruction.

The initial tests of atomic weapons actually made it blatantly obvious their destructive power. We didn't need to bomb Hiroshima or Nagasaki to find out exactly how destructive they are, nor how much latent radiation and fallout they produce. Not using the atomic bombs on Japan would have been a disaster, as they likely wouldn't have surrendered had we not. Millions and Millions more would have died on both sides, it's also possible that Japanese culture could have been wiped out, at least as we know it, in the process. Not only that but the taking of Japan and Japanese held territory through out Asia would have been such a bloody process, and would have taken years.

One further point is that the Japanese people were ready to commit mass suicide if the Americans landed on the shores of Japan. Their propaganda basically said it'd be better to kill yourself then let the dirty barbaric Americans rape and torture you to death.

 

[Scarim Coral]

As the word "infinite" imply, there are countless alternative universe as in too many too count!

Honestly I would either picked one of the universes and try to make it a utopia or just find the nearest universes that is close to utopia or has a verson of me that is the most happiness or successful and settle with that one.]

Heck or maybe all the alternative worlds will overwhelm me to the point of madness and I start hunting down and killed the alternative "me" believing in some totem crap.

 

[loa]

Weren't transdimensional travel and time travel 2 different things?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Weren't transdimensional travel and time travel 2 different things?

Yes, but it's not a stretch to think that if one is possible, through technology specifically, than the other can't be that hard.

 

[LordLundar]

Say that without Hitler the Soviet Union took over all of Europe. How many millions more would have died just for disagreeing politically with the Government? The holocaust against the Jewish people in Europe also actually presented some important lessons; however, I fear that the world has failed to learn them.

This is actually a very popular theory on the "killing Hitler" example. You have to remember at the time that when Nazi Germany was running their efforts to seize the world the Soviets were just as, if not more so heavily militarized and had no compunctions in sending their troops to die. There is also evidence that indicates Stalin was more than willing to mobilize the forces in an assault themselves. Basically the only thing that prevented a Soviet invasion of Europe was Hitler beating them to the punch.

Here's another problem. While the concepts of multiverses is very popular concept in fiction (largely to avoid any paradox issues) most scientists who actually study the concepts of temporal mechanics run under the theory of what is called "fatalistic timeline". Basically while humanity has the power of choice, when that choice happens all other possibilities cease to exist. In this concept there is no multiverses, the choice has been made and the alternative ceases to be. Think Schrodinger's (holy crap I spelled that right?) cat but on the scale of the universe.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

As an individual you would never be able to even help the smallest fraction of people if you tried to help everyone in multiple universes. I'd just stick with the one universe.

Alternatively, I'd fill one universe with duplicates of myself and just fuck with people's minds.

"Hey, come quick! I'm on TV"

*everyone rushes over*

"Uh, isn't this a live broadcast?"

"Seven second delay"

Well, there are an infinite number of alternate universes out there, so everything essentially becomes meaningless.

So I'd go find the alternate universe where I married Natalie Portmen, murder my alternate self, and start a happy family with two daughters and a son.

And if I had two sons and a daughter then, damn, I guess I'll just have to start over.

Unfortunately, with it being infinite universes chances are you aren't the only you with that idea. Natalie Portman's going to be convinced that her husband has Alzheimers.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Here's another problem. While the concepts of multiverses is very popular concept in fiction (largely to avoid any paradox issues) most scientists who actually study the concepts of temporal mechanics run under the theory of what is called "fatalistic timeline". Basically while humanity has the power of choice, when that choice happens all other possibilities cease to exist. In this concept there is no multiverses, the choice has been made and the alternative ceases to be. Think Schrodinger's (holy crap I spelled that right?) cat but on the scale of the universe.

That only applies to the universe we can perceive. Due to quantum mechanics, and the supposed nature of existence in general, the infinite universes concept must exist. Due in no small part to the fact for an option to exist, the option must be possible. If it weren't then all existence would cease. To allow for this fluctuation it's theorized that infinite universes must exist for their to be choice at all. Also it's more than probable that humans aren't the only species in this universe that are sentient hand have the power of choice.

But no two theoretical physicists will agree on this, unless it's either proved, or disproved.

 

[Neonsilver]

With infinite universes where every conceivable scenario exists somewhere, it becomes somewhat pointless to affect important events. After all, somewhere is a universe where exactly that has happened. I think I would become somewhat depressed after a while, because for every human I help, there is an infinite number of people that i couldn't help.

I probably would travel around and do whatever I want for my own amusement. Maybe I would do something, but that would be more out of curiosity, to see how certain things would change history. I would only do so because I wouldn't have to look for the universe where that has happened.
An alternative plan would be to look for universes that are similar to my favorite movies/books/series whatever and see those things firsthand.

 

[Hawk of Battle]

To quote Teal'c;

"Ours is the only universe of consequence."

So, because everything and anything can and will happen, regardless of what choices you make, in your own or any other universe, basically, go nuts. Do whatever you want, anywhere. Just remember where your home universe is and take that one as your own personal "prime" verse that everything else is based off, and feel free to mess around in other peoples all day long as much as you want.

 

[briankoontz]

The problem with time travel, the reload function in video games, and multiple universes, is that they degrade the meaning of the real world. If we have much power to change the past or to simply leave our universe when things go poorly, there's no motivation for doing good, for doing things right.

We lose the ability to FAIL by having infinite re-dos. In effect, we create immortality for reality - neverending possibilities, neverending re-tries, neverending re-evaluations.

We become vampires of the real, not particularly caring how things turn out because we'll just "fix it in post-production". This causes a downward spiral of degradation and despair.

 

[Little Woodsman]

Sure you could go kick hitler's dad in the balls an infinite number of times

{sigh}

I keep telling people and telling people and no-one ever listens....

Do not,

*Do* *not*,

DO NOT

Mess with the time-line of WWII!!!

Any significant change will cause this spiral arm of the galaxy to lose the second Dalek war in the late 26th century!