Innovative Gaming is done.

[Mr Pantomime]

I think your idea is flawed as you seem to have the idea that, if you can trace an idea to some influence, its no longer innovative. Theres no idea that didnt have a source, or multiple sources. Saying a game isnt innovative because you can trace it back to another game, book, or event is like saying the kindle isnt interesting because it was influenced by books.

I dont see why we shouldnt demand innovation from developers. Already theyre releasing so many generic first person shooters and tolkien inspired fantasy games. Do we really want to give them a free pass to let the industry stagnate. The entire industry would be exactly like Madden games.

 

[MasterV]

*Raises flame shields*

We should always WANT new innovative Ideas. But we should stop DEMANDING them. When a new Idea comes up we should cherish it and make it last for as long as possible, not get bored of it and ask for something new, putting developers on the spot, and end up getting crap.

Pretty much. But no, we shouldn't always want. Because this will lead to more crap coming out.

On a side note, what gave people the idea that innovative gaming just recently started declining? Really shows your age when you say something like that. Innovative games were always few and far between, with the rest being copies or expanding upon the base of an existing innovator.

Do you know why? Because when you play something new and you like it, you want more. Let alone the fact that most "innovations" revolve around developers' silly ideas of how to improve gameplay or make it more accessible. Innovative games exist, but most are crap. Successful innovations are few for that reason alone, and it should stay that way.

 

[Baraka444]

I have brought this up before.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.280055-Saying-things-are-dead-is-dead#10940351
But isn't innovation kind of the point of this whole 'gaming/new technology thing?
OK right now innovation looks few and far between, gamers are naturally conservative because buying new games are expensive. Developers don't like taking risks because that's expensive.
But I would ask; What if the people who made Max Payne thinking we are going to innovate games to have 'bullet time' had just said "You know what screw that it's hard!"
Or When Team 17 made Worms, did they think "Worms using weapons? Preposterous"
Or Guitar Hero "Will people pay for a squeaky fisher price guitar, for the sake of air guitar?"
They didn't know at the time that these would be innovations, it just happens when a good idea comes to together at the right time. Now Call of Duty is popular so the FPS's are playing 'lets be like Call of Duty' and they only started as 'lets be like Medal of Honor'. See innovation happens all the time, it's just very difficult to notice without your hindsight glasses on.

 

[Traun]

It is just an personal opinion. I am finding that new and exciting ideas are getting fewer and further between.

The lack of AAA innovation is probably because of the whole recession thing. You, sir, just need to look harder.

Check this thing out. Looks kind of cool. Found it in about 30 seconds on Steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/72200/

When was the last time you saw a game about creating the universe?

Dude...that game is from 2008, it's just new to Steam.

If you want innovation - http://store.steampowered.com/app/104100/?snr=1_5_9__13

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I am now beginning to believe that Innovative gaming is over. Now a days it seems like when a new game comes out people will be slamming a "Like *Insert Game Here* but" title on that game, and ***** that it rips off the *Insert Game Here". But the thing is... I really think all of the good innovative Ideas are... well gone really. Think about it. Try to come up for a concept for a game. Now most likely that Idea was "Inspired" by a game you have played before.

We as gamers should stop asking for innovative games, but for games that are fun to play, and have a good story/plot. And stop bitching if some developers use ideas from something else.

Agreed, for the most part. I've heard it said that there are only so many good ideas in the world. When applied to a single medium (for example, electronic gaming), this becomes all the more easy to believe.

The trouble is that people tend to focus far too much on things like familiar game mechanics, and ignore things like story and milieu. That said, if you're going to crib, it's best to crib from multiple sources and to combine them effectively.

 

[Continuity]

*Raises flame shields*

I am now beginning to believe that Innovative gaming is over. Now a days it seems like when a new game comes out people will be slamming a "Like *Insert Game Here* but" title on that game, and ***** that it rips off the *Insert Game Here". But the thing is... I really think all of the good innovative Ideas are... well gone really. Think about it. Try to come up for a concept for a game. Now most likely that Idea was "Inspired" by a game you have played before.

We as gamers should stop asking for innovative games, but for games that are fun to play, and have a good story/plot. And stop bitching if some developers use ideas from something else.

Thoughts?

I am not looking to piss anybody off, I am just saying this because it is pissing me off how people are demanding so much from Developers.

Capcha:
ifervr km[sub]2[/sub]/yr

Wrong.

OK, mainstream games in the 90's for example were constantly trying new things in the hope of hitting on a new formula, or new genre that worked.. many of the genre around today were forged in this creative heat and this is why I often refer to the 90's as the golden era of gaming. However, just because the mainstream no longer routinely breaks the mold doesn't mean that there is no innovation going on.

OK, in the major new genre sense of innovation we are seeing a lot less of that in the AAA market, and yes that has a lot to do with all the major genre having already been invented (discovered?) but we still get plenty of innovation within genre and within specific games, take Valve for example, every game they've released (to my knowledge) contained significant innovations, or at least didn't follow a standard format for the genre or try to copy another game - thats that sort of innovation we're looking for, and its not just valve that can pull it off.

As for thinking of a new game concept, sure, piece of piss, try these for size:

A survival game based in a sandbox world, incorporating base building and personnel management inc leveling up and skills, scavenging, tactical management of teams of survivors, hard coded missions with an over arching plot but also random generated elements. Just add zombies, shake, and you have a new game.

Or how about this for a multiplayer game: You have two or more teams who get a certain amount of time to build a fort and then its fairly generic team DM, just with new game modes related to capturing/destroying/infiltrating forts. Think minecraft + team fortress - OK those aren't unique ideas but putting them together certain is (to my knowledge).

 

[Cory Rydell]

I feel like I should read more of this thread but... how many books do you know that are inspired by other books. Or movies inspired by other movies. Its just relating human stories in new ways. Humans have been around for a long time and we have played around a lot with entertainment. The thing is we can always find interest in the same human dramas over and over because they are subject to the same amounts of unique intricacies as human life.

Boy finds girl, boy falls in love, adversity strikes. Overcome adversity, the couple gets together. This seems like everything we see in our media today, to me (male perspective leads to male perspective, if I was a girl this would probably be different)

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

I'd like you to apply that to another medium and see if it makes sense, as games are relatively young and therefore the most likely type of media to contain originality. That said, I still see innovative films, read innovative books, and listen to innovative music regularly. Yes, there are only a certain numbers of stories to be told or genres to be explored, but it's all about how one does it that makes it innovative. A pirate story? Yeah, it's been done before, but has it been done like this? Listen, humanity has been around for quite a while now. If we were going to start being completely unoriginal, we would've done it years ago. Otherwise, what's the point of creating? Why play a Halo clone when I can just play Halo?

And that's why we should keep asking for innovation. Even if I'm wrong and innovation is impossible, lack of creativity isn't something to be aimed for. Who knows? Maybe we'll find a spark of original thought just so long as we don't stop looking.

On the practical, non-philosophical side, don't look towards AAA games for change- being the riskiest investment for companies, they're also going to be the slowest to change, as they'll stick to what's been proven to maximize assured income rather than taking risks to gamble for something more than that.

TL;DR: I like not to underestimate the human imagination.

 

[Nazulu]

Don't mean to be rude, but I'm very sure there are still creative artists out there that can take gaming a step further. Not anyone can have a creative mind that can think outside of the box, and not all those artists who can will be able to market their ideas. You've seen how company's like to make money from the same thing over and over, new idea's are not always welcome with open arms unfortunately.

 

[Korolev]

I don't think we necessarily have to "say" anything. All we have to do is play good games and avoid bad games.

Good games can be innovative, but they don't have to be. Bad games can be stereotypical, but again, they don't have to be.

Innovation is something we should all look forward to. Innovation doesn't mean a game WILL be great. Stereotypical or non-innovative games are not always bad either (FFX and FFIX weren't "innovative", even for their time, but I thought they were great!)

I don't think we should demand "no-innovation", I don't think we should demand that every game have "innovation". I think that we should, in general, reward GOOD innovation and we should not punish non-innovative games, so long as they are polished and fun to play.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

I don't think we should demand that every game have "innovation". I think that we should, in general, reward GOOD innovation and we should not punish non-innovative games, so long as they are polished and fun to play.

I think that's actually what the OP was trying to get at.

Of course innovation shouldn't actually be discouraged or penalized. That would be ridiculous and kind of insulting. But it's also not the be-all and end-all (at least not when it comes to game mechanics).

 

[Yopaz]

"Everything that can be Invented has been Invented" ~ Charles H. Duell, he said that in 1899, just put that in your mind.

Just quoting this, because I think you make a perfectly good point that should be on more than one place.

It is just an personal opinion. I am finding that new and exciting ideas are getting fewer and further between.

The lack of AAA innovation is probably because of the whole recession thing. You, sir, just need to look harder.

Check this thing out. Looks kind of cool. Found it in about 30 seconds on Steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/72200/

When was the last time you saw a game about creating the universe?

When I saw that link I was sure you were talking about this one http://store.steampowered.com/app/92800/?snr=1_5_9__13 also a fairly new game on Steam, also a game I haven't seen similar too.

I think Ben Croshaw is right, but that he narrowed it down a bit too much. He said that if we want to find innovation we need to look at the app store for iPhone, but Steam also got some examples of innovation.

That is actually really cool. But it looks a hell of a lot like the Space age from Spore. Then again I might need t play it before I can say that. But I will most likly ever get a credit card so I can't buy it on Steam.

Space mode in Spore is not very similar to this... Also you don't need a credit card to use Steam. Get a PayPal account, transfer 10usd/euro to that account and there you go.

 

[RadiusXd]

innovation is risky, the indie crowd still has plenty though.

 

[Continuity]

I don't think we should demand that every game have "innovation". I think that we should, in general, reward GOOD innovation and we should not punish non-innovative games, so long as they are polished and fun to play.

I think that's actually what the OP was trying to get at.

Of course innovation shouldn't actually be discouraged or penalized. That would be ridiculous and kind of insulting. But it's also not the be-all and end-all (at least not when it comes to game mechanics).

Fair points an perfectly reasonable, but you have to heave a sigh of resignation and disgust when the 6th CoD clone of the year (or whatever) comes out. Just think of all the funding and developer talent that is wasted on these shallow games... its almost criminal.
Just to clarify I'm not saying CoD is shallow, just that creating clone games hoping to cash in on one game's success is shallow, not that this is a new trend, look at all the sonic clones, or all the c&c clones or all the doom clones...

 

[zerobudgetgamer]

To not ask/demand for innovation is kind of like not asking/demanding a person to stop stabbing you in the side. Sure, speaking up probably isn't going to stop them from doing what they're doing, but there's always a chance, and you'll typically be all the more grateful when it works.

You've gotta remember, Metrics talk in this industry. If a truly innovative game doesn't sell better than your token AAA Like-XXXX-But game, than the industry has "proof" that the knockoff will sell better. Look at all of the "underrated games" and "games no one has heard of" threads out there. Look at all the games that critics across the Internet claim to be some of the best games in the history of gaming, but subsequently never do better than break even. It's our own buying habits that doom us into this hellhole of samey, overdone game after samey, overdone game, and it's our fault just as much as it is the industry when we look at a game that touts itself as being truly different, but we put it back on the shelf for our own uncertainty of the unfamiliar.

Now yes, granted a lot of the games in these aforementioned categories are works of great story innovation, not gameplay innovation, but in that respect, and in that respect alone, I may have to agree with you, but only in that the "simple" innovations have all been done. Gameplay, especially over the last decade or so, has been unbelievably easy. Most Puzzles lately devolve to "Place block in hole" or "Avoid obstacle to hit switch" or "Key in code that we painted on the wall three feet away from console." Nothing requires a higher mode of learning, and even if something does, the true worth of it is inevitably watered down through the use of strategy guides and/or GameFAQs. No one has to learn new things to play a game, and quite frankly, few want to. I've known a couple people who act like it's a fucking chore whenever they can't immediately overcome an obstacle in a game, and actually complain while they're hopping on GameFAQs to find the answer. In Short, we've become so spoiled over the years, that some of us actually prefer a lack of innovation.

 

[pearcinator]

I just hope I live to the days when full-immersion video games exist...

Put on immersion helmet, put on immersion clothes, stand/walk/run on a 360 degree treadmill or human-sized hamster ball, put on any game and it feels just like u were there! Imagine how scary survival horror games would be then (I dont think I'd be able to handle it) and imagine how good Mass Effect Online would be when ur wearing a total-immersion suit.

Innovative gaming is far from over...we just need technology to improve at a faster rate.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Fair points an perfectly reasonable, but you have to heave a sigh of resignation and disgust when the 6th CoD clone of the year (or whatever) comes out. Just think of all the funding and developer talent that is wasted on these shallow games... its almost criminal.
Just to clarify I'm not saying CoD is shallow, just that creating clone games hoping to cash in on one game's success is shallow, not that this is a new trend, look at all the sonic clones, or all the c&c clones or all the doom clones...

Hmm. Oh the one hand, I can see what you're getting at.

On the other, let's say that you've got game X. Then, game Y comes along; and for the most part, it's got similar mechanics. But game Y has a few things that game X doesn't have, or has a few things that it actually does better.

How many people do you think will still be hollering that game Y is a total clone and an inferior ripoff of game X, even if game X isn't entirely original to begin with? Especially if game Y has its flaws, or if there's absolutely anything that game X does better at all? (These aren't at all necessary for them to say this. But if they are there, they'll get blown out of proportion and become the be-all and end-all of a good and/or fun game)

Hell, how many people do you think will outright lie about game Y to make it sound much worse than it actually is?

 

[Saulkar]

It is just an personal opinion. I am finding that new and exciting ideas are getting fewer and further between.

The lack of AAA innovation is probably because of the whole recession thing. You, sir, just need to look harder.

Check this thing out. Looks kind of cool. Found it in about 30 seconds on Steam.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/72200/

When was the last time you saw a game about creating the universe?

\

Just found this seconds ago before you linked.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

People have to realise that yes, Idea's may be hard to come by, but when one does come by, it is probebly the greatest achievement. Take Tolkien's work, The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, for example. That has never been seen before its time, but thats also because it took him 20 years (mostly because he was in world war 1, and had several part time jobs) to develop it (He wanted to create all of the History, Lore, and Culture before and starting his books). He was the first man by himself to create a langauge written and spoken. He 'created' an idea, something new that was innovative and captivated the masses to the point where his books are one of the most remembered things of our history. How are our games any different though?

Games can be just an innovative, but time is required. We are such an impatient species however, we ***** and complain when a title isn't out yet, and then we ***** and complain further when we find it isn't up to our standards because we didn't give them enough time to finish it. Tolkien may have needed 20 years, but a fully staffed Developing Company with so many other things to take care of including Gameplay, Graphics, and Music, would require 5-10 years to make 'An Innovative Title'.

Mass Effect 1 required 5 years to make, and frankly I didn't find it that innovative. It just had a bunch of jumbled ideas that were already in use in other titles. Nothing was new except maybe the RPG aspect within a Shooter game, and the closest Shooters have come to RPG is "Shoot that guy in the head, and he won't get away!". Even the story was iffy, "Reapers come to destroy every living thing in the galaxy simply because... they like it?/were programmed to dur" It is a very weak plot they havn't developed on, and I am hoping they will in the 3rd title. If they don't, I am dubbing the series a plot failure. This is an example of a Title that simply did not have enough time to create an innovative idea or innovative story, either that or it never wanted to be innovative, just wanted a title like so many others because of a recession. Though that makes little sense when Mass Effect had a gigantic budget...

Over all? Either become more patient with your titles, or take the good with the bad. Both choices will force you to become more tolerant and understanding, thus meaning you cannot *****, so live with it.