Iran Publishes Anti-Israel Videogames

[Danny Ocean]

Zionism is a SECULAR movment
so much so, that there is an actual definition of "religious zionism" to denote that UNLIKE original zionism, this is a movement based on faith.

Prove that. I just did a definition search of 'Zionism' and every single one defined it as Jewish. Even wikipedia. Either most of the internet is wrong, including wordnet.princeton, or your definition is so out of common parlance as to make it useless in all but the most top-level debates.

It sure looks like religiously motivated nationalism to me. After all, you're calling a group of individuals, spread all around the world, who happen to follow the same religion a 'people'. Should the 5% of the UK who call themselves 'Jedi', get their own land? Are they a people?

A whole bunch of fundamentalist Islam is also religiously motivated nationalism. That is the analogy I'm making. If you want something to pick apart, pick at that.

they are one of the oldest PEOPLE in the world

First of all: PUTTING THINGS IN CAPS MAKES YOU LOOK ANGRY. IT DOES NOT PLACE EMPHASIS. That's what bold and italics are for. Please use them, if you don't mind. =)

Second: Define 'People'.

Third: I do not think nationalism is a good thing. You won't be able to persuade me as such, so stop trying, please.

 

[Jerious1154]

And what does Zionist even mean? They toss the word around all the time.

Zionism has come to mean fundamentalist Judaism, including the belief that the Jews are a superior race. In contradicts many other moderate Jewish teachings. Unfortunately, opposition to Zionism can be difficult to separate from anti-Semitism.

This is a common misconception, but that does not change the fact that it is entirely wrong. Zionism is not Jewish fundamentalism in any respect. It is Jewish nationalism. It is the belief that the Jews are a people who should have their own national homeland. You can't really get anymore specific than that, because there are many different groups of Zionists with radically different beliefs.

Contrary to what most people believe, Zionism is primarily a secular movement. It was started in Eastern Europe by a group of Jewish socialists who moved to Israel in the early 20th century and established secular communities. Although there are religious Zionists, a lot of Jewish fundamentalists are incredibly anti-Zionist, because they believe that Israel can only be the Jewish homeland once the Messiah returns.

Zionism does not contradict a single moderate Jewish teaching, or even the most liberal of Jewish teachings. Being a Zionist does not mean that you support, for example, expansion of settlements in the West Bank, or aggressive action against Iran. All it means is that you strongly and actively support the Jewish right to self-determination in their own state.

Edit: One last note, being "anti-Zionist" does not mean that you are against Israel's policies (which I have no problem with, since I'm not a fan of the current administration), it means that you are against the existence of the state of Israel.

 

[DarkRyter]

We're all gonna be surprised when it turns out to be a card-based JRPG and all this is just some really funky viral marketing.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

As to echo the others here..

These games probably suck hard anyways.

 

[The Amazing Tea Alligator]

drinking tea with the British.

Nothing wrong with that - then again I'm Canadian. Why put ranks into combat when you can level up in diplomacy?

 

[Danny Ocean]

And what does Zionist even mean? They toss the word around all the time.

Zionism has come to mean fundamentalist Judaism, including the belief that the Jews are a superior race. In contradicts many other moderate Jewish teachings. Unfortunately, opposition to Zionism can be difficult to separate from anti-Semitism.

This is a common misconception, but that does not change the fact that it is entirely wrong. Zionism is not Jewish fundamentalism in any respect. It is Jewish nationalism. It is the belief that the Jews are a people who should have their own national homeland. You can't really get anymore specific than that, because there are many different groups of Zionists with radically different beliefs.

Contrary to what most people believe, Zionism is primarily a secular movement. It was started in Eastern Europe by a group of Jewish socialists who moved to Israel in the early 20th century and established secular communities. Although there are religious Zionists, a lot of Jewish fundamentalists are incredibly anti-Zionist, because they believe that Israel can only be the Jewish homeland once the Messiah returns.

Zionism does not contradict a single moderate Jewish teaching, or even the most liberal of Jewish teachings. Being a Zionist does not mean that you support, for example, expansion of settlements in the West Bank, or aggressive action against Iran. All it means is that you strongly and actively support the Jewish right to self-determination in their own state.

Edit: One last note, being "anti-Zionist" does not mean that you are against Israel's policies (which I have no problem with, since I'm not a fan of the current administration), it means that you are against the existence of the state of Israel.

See now this is a good explanation. Thanks. I can see why the other guy is getting stuck on my analogy. I compared Zionism to fundamentalist Islam on the basis that both are founded in religious nationalism. I don't see a problem with that comparison of the two groups. Do you?

 

[bladeofdarkness]

Zionism is a SECULAR movment
so much so, that there is an actual definition of "religious zionism" to denote that UNLIKE original zionism, this is a movement based on faith.

Prove that. I just did a definition search of 'Zionism' and every single one defined it as Jewish. Even wikipedia. Either most of the internet is wrong, including wordnet.princeton, or your definition is so out of common parlance as to make it useless in all but the most top-level debates.

they are one of the oldest PEOPLE in the world

First of all: PUTTING THINGS IN CAPS MAKES YOU LOOK ANGRY. IT DOES NOT PLACE EMPHASIS. That's what bold and italics are for. Please use them, if you don't mind. =)

Second: Define 'People'.

Third: I do not think nationalism is a good thing. You won't be able to persuade me as such, so stop trying, please.

Religious Zionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism
"Religious Zionism is an ideology that combines Zionism and Jewish religious faith and whose members mostly adhere to Modern Orthodox Judaism."
in other words, Zionism, and the Jewish FAITH are concepts that are basically distinct from each other.
P.S, not sure how to use the "bold" feature.

as for defining people
a group who share common ethnic origin, history, language, customs and other unifying traits.
for more info, look up the concept Nation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

Jews, before being scattared all over the place by the romans (who also renamed the Jews homeland "palestina"), were a unified people.
Zionism, is about remembering that fact.

 

[Stone Wera]

Devil Den 2? So.... Is there a Devil Den 1?

I'm afraid it looks that way.

I really hope this propaganda video game idea doesn't catch on internationally.

 

[stewox]

Well America has been publishing anti-Russian games for years - I don't see the problem

and anti middle east

 

[antipunt]

Anti-X videogames? No problem, I'm OK with that.

Although I'm not sure where the fine line is between historical fiction and propaganda. I mean, we make Middle Easterners/Russians to be the enemy in our games all the time, right? I'm a little torn up about this.

 

[tomtom94]

Oh joy, just what we need, more hatred in the middle East.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Religious Zionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism
"Religious Zionism is an ideology that combines Zionism and Jewish religious faith and whose members mostly adhere to Modern Orthodox Judaism."
in other words, Zionism, and the Jewish FAITH are concepts that are basically distinct from each other.

I'm still not seeing the difference here.

Religious Zionism is Nationalism and Religion.

Zionism is Nationalism because of Religion. Which is, surely, necessarily Nationalism and Religion.

IMO: Religious Zionism= Zionism. Tell me why I am wrong.

 

[bladeofdarkness]

Religious Zionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism
"Religious Zionism is an ideology that combines Zionism and Jewish religious faith and whose members mostly adhere to Modern Orthodox Judaism."
in other words, Zionism, and the Jewish FAITH are concepts that are basically distinct from each other.

I'm still not seeing the difference here.

Religious Zionism is Nationalism and Religion.

Zionism is Nationalism because of Religion. Which is, surely, necessarily Nationalism and Religion.

IMO: Religious Zionism= Zionism. Tell me why I am wrong.

you are wrong, with the assumption that being Jewish, and Following the Faith of Judaism, means the same thing.
Judaism is a religion.
Jews are sorta like an ETHNIC group. (or more to the point, a group with the same ethnic origin), and a national identity rolled into one, with the faith of Judaism being part of the deal.
its about more then just religious faith.

prior to the raise of Islam, Persia (Iran) had a traditional faith called Zoroastrianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
then Islam came along and pretty much ruined the whole thing, and the Persian people became Muslim.
but they were still Persians.

its kinda like that, only the other way around.
Jews were an nation with a similar ethnic origin, history, language, and religious faith.
then the romans scattered them, and over the following 2000 years, Jewish ethnicety got a bit murkier.
but they didn't stop being Jewish.

Zionism, is about remembering that before the 2000 years of exile, we were one unified people.
and the belief that we still are.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

We English need more anti French games. They are our natural enemies and I am sure that they have committed lots of atrocities against us in the past. We need to educate the young ones so that we are suitably prepared for the next time they come at us with their subhuman antics.

 

[Simon1]

A little over a hundred years a country about the same size as Iran defeated the most powerful navy in the world at that time. Before that happened, the powers of the world were each thinking that either it might be best to invade that pest, or ignore it. The economic and political leaders of that little country firmly believed in Manifest Destiny, that they had a duty to seize all they could and spread the good word of Democracy to all.
That country? The United States of America.

America is over 300 years old.......

Also, defeated the most powerful navy in the world? I don't know all of details about the American war of independence so I can't outright claim your wrong, but I think you must be wrong since there is no way that America could have taken the British fleet head on despite still being in its infancy as a nation and won. Not to mention that if it had not been for the French you would still be drinking tea with the British.

actually, its 234 years old.
it was established in 1776

Nitpicking here! If we go by practicalities, our government wasn't officially established until two years after the Constitutional Convention. In 1776, we were still running under the Articles of Confederation.

Anyway, carry on!

Actually we didn't even have an official confederation, until after the Revolutionary war was over. Boom! I am a bigger history nerd than all y'all!

 

[Jerious1154]

And what does Zionist even mean? They toss the word around all the time.

Zionism has come to mean fundamentalist Judaism, including the belief that the Jews are a superior race. In contradicts many other moderate Jewish teachings. Unfortunately, opposition to Zionism can be difficult to separate from anti-Semitism.

This is a common misconception, but that does not change the fact that it is entirely wrong. Zionism is not Jewish fundamentalism in any respect. It is Jewish nationalism. It is the belief that the Jews are a people who should have their own national homeland. You can't really get anymore specific than that, because there are many different groups of Zionists with radically different beliefs.

Contrary to what most people believe, Zionism is primarily a secular movement. It was started in Eastern Europe by a group of Jewish socialists who moved to Israel in the early 20th century and established secular communities. Although there are religious Zionists, a lot of Jewish fundamentalists are incredibly anti-Zionist, because they believe that Israel can only be the Jewish homeland once the Messiah returns.

Zionism does not contradict a single moderate Jewish teaching, or even the most liberal of Jewish teachings. Being a Zionist does not mean that you support, for example, expansion of settlements in the West Bank, or aggressive action against Iran. All it means is that you strongly and actively support the Jewish right to self-determination in their own state.

Edit: One last note, being "anti-Zionist" does not mean that you are against Israel's policies (which I have no problem with, since I'm not a fan of the current administration), it means that you are against the existence of the state of Israel.

See now this is a good explanation. Thanks. I can see why the other guy is getting stuck on my analogy. I compared Zionism to fundamentalist Islam on the basis that both are founded in religious nationalism. I don't see a problem with that comparison of the two groups. Do you?

I would say that there is a difference, at least in my understanding of what fundamentalist Islam is. Zionism is religious nationalism only in the sense that it is nationalism based around a religious group. Most Zionists are secular, and view "Judaism" the same way that someone from Ireland might view "Irishness". So if you asked them for a justification of why they want to have a state in Israel, they might say, "Because it's the Jewish homeland", but they would never say, "Because God wants us to be there." That's not to say that there are not religious Zionists who would make that exact argument, but those people do not make up the majority of Zionism.

Fundamentalist Islam, on the other hand, is based around both Islamic nationalism and a fundamentalist interpretation of the religion of Islam. A fundamentalist Muslim is by definition a religious fundamentalist, while a Zionist is not. With Zionists, you can get people who are ultra-nationalistic hawks who believe that Palestine should be made into a parking lot, but you can also get people who are incredibly liberal environmentalists and peaceniks who believe that a Jewish state must set an example to the world by being a beacon of good-neighborliness. Fundamentalist Muslims, as religious fundamentalists, tend to be much more uniformly conservative and anti-peace just as fundamentalist Jewish Zionists tend to be anti-peace.

Again, this is just the way I understand it, and although I know a fair amount about Zionism I know a lot less about fundamentalist Islam, so correct me if I said anything that's incorrect.

 

[samsonguy920]

A little over a hundred years a country about the same size as Iran defeated the most powerful navy in the world at that time. Before that happened, the powers of the world were each thinking that either it might be best to invade that pest, or ignore it. The economic and political leaders of that little country firmly believed in Manifest Destiny, that they had a duty to seize all they could and spread the good word of Democracy to all.
That country? The United States of America.

America is over 300 years old.......

Also, defeated the most powerful navy in the world? I don't know all of details about the American war of independence so I can't outright claim your wrong, but I think you must be wrong since there is no way that America could have taken the British fleet head on despite still being in its infancy as a nation and won. Not to mention that if it had not been for the French you would still be drinking tea with the British.

It makes me cry a bit inside when people able to come on here don't even know American history. In 1898 Spain declared war on the United States. Up until then, Spain had one of the most powerful navies if not the most powerful, and a military already seasoned by other conflicts. America had been enjoying quite a bit of peace as the last war it dealt with was internal. That would have been the Civil War. The outcome of the Spanish-American War was disastrous for Spain, as it lost most of its colonial power that it hadn't lost already to wars of independence. Spain just about literally owned half the world once upon a time. This would be its final downfall. Even after that the US wasn't yet considered a superpower, but it gained a lot of respect that never been given before by the powers at the time. It wasn't until World War I that the US finally was considered a superpower in the world.

So it may be good to pay regard to Iran, because in their eyes, we, being the US, England, and all the West, are Spain. And Israel is little more than a colony whose occupiers need to be pushed out.

 

[SyphonX]

It's kinda funny watching a bunch of westerners laugh and mock other countries for "propaganda", when the United States and majority-Europe is absolutely saturated with propaganda in every possible medium.

Actually.. it is really funny. Considering this whole article is basically just propaganda. I'd like for the author to confirm that this "game" was actually funded and created by Iran, first, before accusing it of being nationalist rhetoric. Instead, we're flinging wild assumptions around.

Our most popular games are pieces like Call of Duty and Medal of Honor, etc., where the goal is to literally kill virtual representations of our current perceived enemies. That could easily be construed as nationalist wartime propaganda, considering they actually have former military or active military advisors to help them design these games.

I can almost guarantee Iran did nothing of the sort. Yet here we are.

 

[Dana22]

Devils Den 2 ? You saying there was a Devils Den 1 ?

 

[The Wooster]

It's kinda funny watching a bunch of westerners laugh and mock other countries for "propaganda", when the United States and majority-Europe is absolutely saturated with propaganda in every possible medium.

Those silly Arabs and their propoganda! HOHOHOHOHO.

*Goes back to playing MW2*