Is Bioware losing its magic?

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Emenhil

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Dec 18, 2009
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Okay, well, let me start by saying that Bioware is one of my favorite developers - I have played, replayed and rereplayed each and every of their games. Big fan here.

Well then, let's get to the point.

A quite depressing thought has been haunting me for... well, a year or two, now - basically since Mass Effect came out. Mass Effect. That one was supposed to be huge. And, as it turns out, it was - stunning facial expressions, intuitive dialogue system, beautiful exposition, awesome music. Yet something was amiss. I couldn't quite put my finger on it; I guess the game just felt a little hollow. The party members didn't banter (well, they occasionally did in the elevators), you could only talk to them on the Normandy, and I guess it made the whole thing a tad lifeless. I tend to think the clean, futuristic military setting didn't help. Still loved the game - three playthroughs to date.

Then Dragon Age came out, and the "Baldur's Gate successor" thing really got me pumped - needless to say, I chose to disregard the atrocious trailers. Finished it twice, loved the character interactions and the various endings, the sense of accomplishment and loss. Then again... I couldn't help but thinking something was missing from the game. Something crucial - I won't go for "soul", that would be a tad overdramatic, but you get the idea. It felt hollow.

Mass Effect was good, but it was no KotOR; I liked Dragon Age, but it was certainly no Baldur's Gate. So yeah, okay, nostalgia's a *****, as they say; I may very well be seeing Bioware's first game through pink-colored glasses. Except I really don't think I am.

I reinstalled Baldur's Gate 1&2 the other day, gave KotOR another run, and tried to compare these titles with the other two (leaving Jade Empire aside; really liked that one, by the way - surprising, I know) with an objective mind.

Well, after doing so, I have come to think that the main differences - and the main cause of my disappointment with the latter games - can be blamed on both technical limitations and, possibly, a lack of creative ones.


Here are my main conclusions, if anyone actually cares:


1) Voice acting, how I hate thee

I hate voice acting. Even when it's done well; even when it's jaw-droppingly perfect. Why, you ask. Well... mainly because it doesn't come cheap! Here's a funny little experience: play Baldur's Gate (or Fallout, or Arcanum, or Planescape: Torment, for that matter) and go talk to any important NPC. See those little lines with numbers in front of them? They are dialogue options. They are numerous, quite long, and get specific responses. Well, Dragon Age has them, you will say! No. No it doesn't. In many instances, the game only gives you the illusion of choice by giving your (mute) character a long list of dialogue options to pick from, most of which leading to a couple of stock responses from most NPCs. I found this "I bet you say that to all the girls!" feeling extremely unnerving while replaying the game. With Mass Effect, Bioware decided to cut on the choices for the sake of the cinematic atmosphere: you set Shepard's mood, but his actual line is always a surprise - you're both a spectator and a player, and it's quite cool. Yet one can't help but thinking that with a bigger budget, Bioware could have given the Commander even more dialogue options to pick from. I guess the dialogue trees of the Infinity Engine era are gone for good, and it makes me a little sad.


2) Creative constraints are a good thing!

Well, in this case, I truly think they are. Seriously. Some writers are good at world-building; some truly shine when they explore a pre-existing universe. I, for one, truly believe Bioware belong in the second category. It's not a bad thing, really; I absolutely love what they've done with the Forgotten Realms and Star Wars. They gave these verses a unique spin; made them much more interesting that they originally were, as far as I'm concerned. As for Mass Effect and Dragon Age... meh. Just meh. Let's just say that I don't really care about Saren and Loghain - Revan and Irenicus strike me as much, much more interesting tragic villains (yes, I know the first and the the latter don't really compare storywise... bear with me ;) ), and that the worlds feels much too generic (arg, I hate the word, but still...) for my taste. Maybe the sequels will surprise me, though!


All right, that's all I could come up with. For the record, I still think Bioware are the best at what they do - I just believe they have done, and could do, so much better. What do you think? Am I high on nostalgia, or do I make some sort of sense?

Sorry for the long, looooooong first post by the way! :)
 

Cherry Cola

Your daddy, your Rock'n'Rolla
Jun 26, 2009
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I expected a DA:O bashing, but you proved to be much more civil and intelligent.

You do make a lot of sense, so I don't think nostalgia is doing the talking.

But still, you might be a little high. Just a tiiiiny little bit.
 

silasbufu

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Aug 5, 2009
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So you're just another of the many people that love older games and have a case of nostalgia..that's about it..Bioware is still great and it keeps up with new needs and technologies.
 

Axeli

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Jun 16, 2004
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Well obviously, when they keep repeating the same game over and over. People are gonna start noticing eventually, no matter how good that game is.
 

remmus

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Aug 31, 2009
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yeah no offence intended....but yeah your high on nostalgia and it makes you nitpick about stuff, not saying myself Bioware are perfect but in my mind all this is nitpicking.

But each to there own I guess
 

Chimpaco

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May 3, 2009
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Please Prepare your Flame shield... So many people will read the post title... And your gonna get messed up...
 

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
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Mass Effect is an excellent game. Mass Effect 2 will be better. DA:O was decent.

Nothing was as good as Baldur's Gate 2, but I'm pretty much resigned that that'll be how it'll go until the end of days.

Also, I preferred ME to KotOR. KotOR2 was better than ME, but that was also developed by Obsidian rather than Bioware.

Oh snap controversy!
 

JRShield

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Dec 9, 2009
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The games might not be as good as you hoped they would be, but they are the best RPG's out there at the moment. So yes, Bioware still has it. I'd even go as far to say that Mass Effect is the best game they produced so far. Man I loved that story!
 

RikSharp

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Feb 11, 2009
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welcome to the escapist!

agree with the voice acting part. constraints of the physical media means that you cant fit as much speech as you can text and those of us looking for an immersive rpg dont mind filling in a few small blanks like what the characters actually sound like.

also, should point out: loved mass effect and dragon age.
 

Emenhil

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Dec 18, 2009
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Also, I preferred ME to KotOR. KotOR2 was better than ME, but that was also developed by Obsidian rather than Bioware.
Haha, I agree, actually. KotOR 2! Such depth. Can't wait to see the true ending.
 

fitchy

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Dec 18, 2009
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You make no mention of Neverwinter Nights. I would have agreed with you if you didn't leave that out... ;)

Honestly I just think that bioware is falling into the same thing every other game developer is: pushing aside innovation in order to sell what works. Great story telling is what I remember Bioware for, and I don't think all that much has changed.
 

Emenhil

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Dec 18, 2009
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You make no mention of Neverwinter Nights.
Guilty! I have to admit I didn't reeeeeally like that one. Yikes, blasphemy!

I agree though. The storytelling is what really matters.
 

A.A.K

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Mar 7, 2009
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i suppose the magic is being lost. although im not fussed due to Mass Effect 2. I think thats going to be a huge turn. its like all their magic is being siphoned away into a ball which will be poured over Mass Effect 2.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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I disagree about point 2 in your list. One of the main reasons why KoTOR was set in the distant past was so that Bioware could have greater freedom in the story. I believe that Nostalgia has gotten the better of you, Bioware story lines (to me at least) are still engaging well written.

Nice post, and Welcome to the Escapist!
 

Da_Schwartz

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Jul 15, 2008
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Agreed. I blame nostalgia. Try and give some newer titles a fair shot. There will always be those games that mean a lil something more to all of us. Doesn't mean anything can't compare to them. Or even surpass. I mean i Loved the Baulders gate series. but seriously..to compare it to dragon age is a bit silly.
 

rossatdi

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Aug 27, 2008
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Emenhil said:
Well, in this case, I truly think they are. Seriously. Some writers are good at world-building; some truly shine when they explore a pre-existing universe. I, for one, truly believe Bioware belong in the second category. It's not a bad thing, really; I absolutely love what they've done with the Forgotten Realms and Star Wars. They gave these verses a unique spin; made them much more interesting that they originally were, as far as I'm concerned. As for Mass Effect and Dragon Age... meh. Just meh. Let's just say that I don't really care about Saren and Loghain - Revan and Irenicus strike me as much, much more interesting tragic villains (yes, I know the first and the the latter don't really compare storywise... bear with me ;) ), and that the worlds feels much too generic (arg, I hate the word, but still...) for my taste. Maybe the sequels will surprise me, though!
This is a very interesting point and I understand it quite well as a pen & paper RPG player, GM and creator. Fitting into a set of constraints can certainly create a stronger sense of character and in reaction to Dragon Age I can see how this is very noticeable aspect.

However...

In defence of DA:O I actually feel that one of its strong points is its 'generic' world setting is well fleshed out if not remarkable. The subjugation of the elves is a wonderful touch and the focus away from a 'innovative' fantasy setting has allowed it to develop a character of itself.

It feels like a small kingdom in the generic fantasy setting, but it does feel quit specifically like a place. I found myself really wanting to go after Lohgain. He dicked us over for selfish reasons, and although I thought the king was a fool I did warm to his childish valour.

The failure to play with the traditional ye olde English style dialogue was great too.

===

My problem with it is the poor difficulty settings. Easy is.. where as normal is batshit impossible.
 

Traun

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Jan 31, 2009
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rossatdi said:
My problem with it is the poor difficulty settings. Easy is.. where as normal is batshit impossible.
You are kidding me. On normal difficulty my character is pretty much soloing his way through the hordes of enemies.

Personally I am happy that Bioware decided to create a world of their own. As it looks like DA:O may be the first game in what will become the Bioverse(or whatever). So thumbs up to Bioware for finally making their own world (can't wait for a game which puts us in the Tivinter Imperium).

As for repeating lines...this was always the case. In Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Fallout, Planescape and so forth, a.k.a since the time RPG's mattered you were always presented with 3-7 choices which leads to 1-2, sometimes three, responses.
 

crypt-creature

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May 12, 2009
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Emenhil said:
You make no mention of Neverwinter Nights.
Guilty! I have to admit I didn't reeeeeally like that one. Yikes, blasphemy!

I agree though. The storytelling is what really matters.
That, and the other PC games you listed, also have more disks than ME or DA.
They can only fit so much on to one disk.