Is Bioware losing its magic?

[Emenhil]

Hmm. I thought this would be more of a Dragon Age dump rant, and it was, in some sense, but much more tame than I was thinking it would be. So, kudos to that. But I do think that while dialogue options have decreased, inter-party talking has definitely been a fresh high point for me--especially in DA:O--There's extensive dialogue between all your party members as you're traveling (my favorites are Morrigan and Alistair, they flirt so damn well).

Yeah, these dialogues really are great, and you can find them in most of their games (BG, KotOR, DA...). That's why I was a little sad to see that they had not included them in Mass Effect. Hope ME2 has party banter! *crosses fingers*

 

[Tiamat666]

There are far better first person role playing games (that's the proper term) than Oblivion.

Such as? I guess Morrowind was better story-wise.

Oblivion was a glitchy clusterfuck and I'm surprised anyone gave it higher than a 5.0 (let alone a 9). So many issues with that game. And your reference to story... in Oblivion? Aside from having a few (count them) three decent voice actors, the story was absolutely horrible. The only time I didn't want to gouge my ear off at the presentation of the story was during the Knights of the Nine quest (possibly the only part of that game I actually had fun in).
I have finished that game 100% and can safely say I will never play it ever again. Videogames in my book are supposed to be fun. Oblivion for me is basically my personal rendition of what hell would look like.

Glitchy Clusterfuck...
Why did you finish it 100% if you found it so terrible? The storyline and the setting aren't very special, definitively not as creative as Planescape Torment or Morrowind, but otherwise I find myself hard pressed finding weak points. I didn't experience any glitches either. And with the moddability you can practically tweak the experience exactly to your liking.

I'm 78 hours into my Oblivion game I still play every once in a while and I haven't even played the main quest, the arena or the fighters guild yet. There is so much to do in that game... to me that is very high value.

 

[Daedalus1942]

There are far better first person role playing games (that's the proper term) than Oblivion.

Such as? I guess Morrowind was better story-wise.

Oblivion was a glitchy clusterfuck and I'm surprised anyone gave it higher than a 5.0 (let alone a 9). So many issues with that game. And your reference to story... in Oblivion? Aside from having a few (count them) three decent voice actors, the story was absolutely horrible. The only time I didn't want to gouge my ear off at the presentation of the story was during the Knights of the Nine quest (possibly the only part of that game I actually had fun in).
I have finished that game 100% and can safely say I will never play it ever again. Videogames in my book are supposed to be fun. Oblivion for me is basically my personal rendition of what hell would look like.

Glitchy Clusterfuck...
Why did you finish it 100% if you found it so terrible? The storyline and the setting aren't very special, definitively not as creative as Planescape Torment or Morrowind, but otherwise I find myself hard pressed finding weak points. I didn't experience any glitches either. And with the moddability you can practically tweak the experience exactly to your liking.

I'm 78 hours into my Oblivion game I still play every once in a while and I haven't even played the main quest, the arena or the fighters guild yet. There is so much to do in that game... to me that is very high value.

Try finishing the main quests as well as the guild quests. Goddamn that game.. so tedious, so grindy ( and I LOVE grinding in rpg's usually), so boring, so glitchy.
I finished the game 100% because I really tried my best to like it (i played it first on PC, got 40 hours in and hated it, then bought it on PS3 and was able to finish it on console, but it was a chore for me. I didn't want people to be able to say to me "you didn't give the game a chance", but the only time I actually enjoyed the game was during the Knights of the Nine quest (which was awesome). Pity about the rest of the game.

 

[Valiance]

No, I know what you're saying.

There's no Minsc, there's no HK-47, there's less of the quirky details that made the game feel like more of a world, and instead it feels formulamatic based upon their old games; It's depressing because I know they can do better.

Baldur's Gate didn't have any numerical representation of how a party member felt about you and other party members, but it was straight up obvious that some people didn't mix, and had conflicting goals, etc.

I understand where you're coming from, and some games haven't aged well, but some of them, well, actually have aged well, and don't need a remake or spiritual successor.

 

[Emenhil]

No, I know what you're saying.

There's no Minsc, there's no HK-47, there's less of the quirky details that made the game feel like more of a world, and instead it feels formulamatic based upon their old games; It's depressing because I know they can do better.

Baldur's Gate didn't have any numerical representation of how a party member felt about you and other party members, but it was straight up obvious that some people didn't mix, and had conflicting goals, etc.

I understand where you're coming from, and some games haven't aged well, but some of them, well, actually have aged well, and don't need a remake or spiritual successor.

Actually, that's an excellent point. Some games have aged well. I can't replay Ocarina of Time now, but I sure can give BG and Fallout another go - anytime. I guess the bottom line is: if you can't do a proper "reimagining" of Baldur's Gate (one where you can explore most houses, where maps are truly huge; where you get a sense of being lost into something bigger than yourself), then don't. Wait wait wait - make the game! But don't label it as "Baldur's Gate successor". Maybe someday, the average hardware will allow developers to make games filled with stunning 3D environments, voice-acting, AND old-school dialogue trees (and a true sense of exploration & discovery). Until then... well, concentrate all your efforts on Mass Effect, Bioware! Can't wait to play the sequel.

 

[acklumos]

I loved KoToR, and am a huge Star Wars fan, but you're just nostalgic. Dragon Age Origins was without a doubt, in my opinion, the best game of the year and one of the best in several years. I've heard Balder's Gate was good, although I have played it, but I did hear that Mass Effect was incredibly linear.

 

[Valiance]

No, I know what you're saying.

There's no Minsc, there's no HK-47, there's less of the quirky details that made the game feel like more of a world, and instead it feels formulamatic based upon their old games; It's depressing because I know they can do better.

Baldur's Gate didn't have any numerical representation of how a party member felt about you and other party members, but it was straight up obvious that some people didn't mix, and had conflicting goals, etc.

I understand where you're coming from, and some games haven't aged well, but some of them, well, actually have aged well, and don't need a remake or spiritual successor.

Actually, that's an excellent point. Some games have aged well. I can't replay Ocarina of Time now, but I sure can give BG and Fallout another go - anytime. I guess the bottom line is: if you can't do a proper "reimagining" of Baldur's Gate (one where you can explore most houses, where maps are truly huge; where you get a sense of being lost into something bigger than yourself), then don't. Wait wait wait - make the game! But don't label it as "Baldur's Gate successor". Maybe someday, the average hardware will allow developers to make games filled with stunning 3D environments, voice-acting, AND old-school dialogue trees (and a true sense of exploration & discovery). Until then... well, concentrate all your efforts on Mass Effect, Bioware! Can't wait to play the sequel.

Yeah, that's pretty much true. Sure, the graphics in BG and Fallout could be considered pretty ugly nowadays, but people are playing it for other aspects of the game than the visuals. I would, actually, like to see them envisioned with the current technology, but I get the feeling that they might not be able to parallel what they had made originally.

Some people would have liked DA:O more if it wasn't called a BG successor.
Some people would have liked Fallout 3 more if it wasn't called Fallout 3.

 

[Susano]

Speaking of Bioware, I have a confession to make.
I did not like KotOR.
I mean sure, it was fun for the first world, but then I got the feeling I get when I've reached level 20 on an MMO; I have to do much more things like what I've just done, and they all feel so repetitive.
I also HATED the Karma system. I wanted to be Sith-like to get their force powers, but all the evil options felt like "Kick the poor defenceless puppy for no reason" or "KILL EVERYONE".
So, do other people feel the same or am I not playing it right?
If you don't want to derail the thread, PM me.

 

[YoUnG205]

Only time will tell with the release of Mass Effect 2.

 

[Amnestic]

Mass Effect is an excellent game. Mass Effect 2 will be better. DA:O was decent.

Nothing was as good as Baldur's Gate 2, but I'm pretty much resigned that that'll be how it'll go until the end of days.

Also, I preferred ME to KotOR. KotOR2 was better than ME, but that was also developed by Obsidian rather than Bioware.

Oh snap controversy!

Now you see, I agree with your point on Baldurs Gate 2.

However, I struggle to rememeber what made it so great. the combat wasn't that good, the magic spells were a bit limiting, the story was good, the world map was a bit limiting, the sidequests were hindered by the main storyline. Graphics were okay. I just can't put my finger on why I love it.

Combat was decent enough; the Infinity Engine handles the d20 system as well as can be expected. It's difficult on difficult and easy on easy - as you'd want from a game generally. As for magic spells being 'limiting', I have yet to find a game (series) with a more robust magic system. Obviously this isn't really Bioware's so much as the D&D folks, but they ported it well. Being able to kill a dragon before it attacks you once is both hilarious and overpowered in the same way. Similarly, if you set up your spells in a poor fashion you find yourself being pretty much useless.

The world map was...eh, it was a world map. It wasn't anything like Final Fantasy VII through IX where you had free roaming, but it worked well enough. At times it was a bit annoying. I remember having issues getting to Fierkraag's place (Windsmeet Hills I think? Been a while.) but overall it was 'solid'. Not perfect, but solid.

Sidequests...I dunno if I'd say they 'hindered' the main storyline. The one thing I thought that really hindered it was collecting the 20,000 15,000g to proceed to the next Chapter, but other than that the sidequests were all pretty interesting. Saving Trademeet, tracking down the crazy skinner across Athkatla, rescuing Haer'dalis and his band of travelling actors first from the mage tower and then from the prison plane...

Although I have to say I did start to get really tired of Valygar's questline after the first two times I ran through it.

Cutting down on the "Walls-of-Text" that supposedly represented dialogue was the best thing BioWare did. Maybe it annoys the 5% of people that thought that was the best part.

Haruhi forbid they make an RPG with story and conversation and character interaction.

Without a voice I just find NPC's very tedious.

So give them a voice yourself.

 

[Dr. Thunder]

Bioware is great. old, new, in the middle. However, the older games were better

 

[Hollock]

these are good games, not masterpieces but good. This isn't like how betheseda made wet and left a permanent stain on their record, it's fucking mass effect and was pretty good.

 

[jimduckie]

yeah they have but it's probably due to being in a rush to get games out and of course having to supply ps3

 

[Nmil-ek]

It's pure nostalgia and trust me I understand those old games will be engrained on my memory till death however they were just as riddled with problems from Baldurs Gate's attrocious (imo) UI and the horrid resting system I know its D&D and thta was a staple but it was a clear example of why some things dont translate well to video games. Neverwinter Nights same problem the bloody waiting mechanics ugh it did not add to the difficulty the game was a fucking breeze it was just monotonous time dragging. Planescape had horrid balance and pretty awful combat mechanics compared to BG from the limited class system to being able ot solo the whole game without os much as picking up an ally.

All the old classics had problems we just tend ot overlook them,dont get me started on Fallout or Fallout 2s awful OST.

 

[Puzzles]

2) Creative constraints are a good thing!

Well, in this case, I truly think they are. Seriously. Some writers are good at world-building; some truly shine when they explore a pre-existing universe. I, for one, truly believe Bioware belong in the second category. It's not a bad thing, really; I absolutely love what they've done with the Forgotten Realms and Star Wars. They gave these verses a unique spin; made them much more interesting that they originally were, as far as I'm concerned. As for Mass Effect and Dragon Age... meh. Just meh. Let's just say that I don't really care about Saren and Loghain - Revan and Irenicus strike me as much, much more interesting tragic villains (yes, I know the first and the the latter don't really compare storywise... bear with me ), and that the worlds feels much too generic (arg, I hate the word, but still...) for my taste. Maybe the sequels will surprise me, though!

This might be my problem with DA:O. I've been trying to put my finger on it, and I've come to the conclusion that a story based game - RPG's basically - should be based on a novel, or existing work/setting. With well contructed twists, characters and plot.

The DA:O world was so bland and hackneyed. I really wish they would have just shelled out and paid for licensing rights of forgotten realms, and used a storyline from the existing literature.