Is D&D and other tabletop-RPGs "unpopular" with girls?

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JaredXE

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There are two girls in my current roleplaying group of friends. However, attempts to introduce any other females is met with failure, since most of the women I know, even the ones who are nerds, simply don't want to play because they look down on it. Again, even the freaking nerd girls think this.

I need more females in my group.
 

IxionIndustries

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Mar 18, 2009
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Pegghead said:
While there aren't any women in my little D&D circle I've seen them playing it at conventions and such.

Plus just look at "I hit it with my axe", actually don't because that show's shit.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

you are funny, lol.

Anyway, my point... very few chicks like D&D (shudder), and even less are actually hot. So yeah.
 

Saint_Zvlkx

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Oct 16, 2009
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Depends on the girl. Since I'm a geek, and my friends of the female persuasion are geeks, we all think D&D is a great game, and we play when we get the chance.
Of course, if it's Miss Popular or Miss Airhead, then chances are she probably doesn't like it/has preconceived notions of what it is and who plays it.
OT: our DM is the mother of a friend of mine. She's been playing (and DMing) for the past twenty years!

EDIT: Also, I hear a lot of people talking about how no attractive girls play D&D. I actually know one- so, just letting you know it's possible. It's not probable, but it CAN happen.
 

Troublesome Lagomorph

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May 26, 2009
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The only girl I've ever known who was interested in D&D was my sister.
My sister who seems like a clone of me.
My sister, who is a girl who I've never ever ever EVER found any other REMOTELY like.

So I'd say.... in my experience, yes.
Edit: When I think about it... none of my irl male friends like D&D...
 

bpm195

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A girl you know has some interest in D&D but she's moving to Delaware, presumably to either go to college or get a job in a screen door factory. You note the dearth of females in your game and decide to invite her, but she doesn't want to because she's moving to Delaware and you persist. I know something about creepy guys from first hand experience and congratulations you're creepy.

Anyway, I have to constantly remind the guys I game with that if you're trying to get people to join us in a game it should just be your stupid way of trying to spend time with her without asking her out on a date. In my college gaming club there's always at least a two guys to one girl ratio, because when a girl wants to join, two creepy guys always suddenly want to play.

Seriously, stop caring.
 

IxionIndustries

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bpm195 said:
A girl you know has some interest in D&D but she's moving to Delaware, presumably to either go to college or get a job in a screen door factory. You note the dearth of females in your game and decide to invite her, but she doesn't want to because she's moving to Delaware and you persist. I know something about creepy guys from first hand experience and congratulations you're creepy.

Anyway, I have to constantly remind the guys I game with that if you're trying to get people to join us in a game it should just be your stupid way of trying to spend time with her without asking her out on a date. In my college gaming club there's always at least a two guys to one girl ratio, because when a girl wants to join, two creepy guys always suddenly want to play.

Seriously, stop caring.
Really? Because she isn't "moving", she is already there. Also, I have no interest in going out with her, because really, long-term relationships suck balls. And no, it's not to go to college, or for any such "proud" reason. She's just fucking there. She complains about how bored she is half the time, so I figure that this would be the perfect thing to take her mind off.

Creepy? How? Did I say I was suddenly stalking her ass from the middle of fucking nowhere? No.

As for your gaming club, of course. If you openly fucking advertise it, then yes, there will be asshats and sex-fiends wanting to join. As for our group, we don't go proclaiming that we play, and the fact is we are low on members, one of them either being out half the time, or just being an all-around fuckhead. We are asking her. We started the game, and are trying to invite her. It's not like your example.

You are severely negative, and overly paranoid. Put your tin-foil helmet back on please.
 

Sacman

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May 15, 2008
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Girls used to laugh at me for playing it so I stopped playing...
 

Benny Blanco

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A difficult and layered question, which I would prefer to answer in the sub-sections which I have noticed in the question and the discussion thread.

First, the question as to whether Tabletop RPGs are more unpopular amongst women than amongst society in general.

Gaming in general is considered by society as a whole as being more of a masculine hobby than a feminine one. It's also an unpopular niche hobby, even despite the recent boom in fantasy, sci-fi and modern horror in other media making the subject matter of the typical game rather more acceptable than perhaps it used to be.

The longstanding feminist gripe about the stereotypical Vallejo-esque chainmail bikini-clad female as an objectification of women can now reasonably be countered by reference to all the shirtless beefcake to be found in recent fantasy films (Prince of Persia), TV series (True Blood, Heroes) etc. not to mention the tendency of Edward Cullen to get semi-naked at any opportunity during that abysmal franchise. Fantasy characters as sexualised fantasies are now fair game for any gender and any orientation.

What may take longer to destroy is the perception of RPGers as unwashed, unshaven, physically unfit and enormously socially awkward male nerds. But this is very much a chicken-and-egg situation. When RPG/Hobby stores start being well-lit comfortable places full of beautiful people of both genders, that will become the norm.

Assuming that the "girls" of whom you speak are reasonably open-minded and prepared to have some unselfconscious fun, the only things that should put them off are the possible misbehaviour or sexist reactions of the other players, either directly (openly staring at breasts and making innuendos like they were channeling the ghost of Sid James) or through their PC proxies (the old "CHA check to seduce" chestnut).

A good GM should stop both of these before they even start, by verbally putting players in check if they say something out of line in person, or forcing them (for instance) to ROLEPLAY the infamous seduction attempt (that is what we call our fine hobby, after all) and watch them squirm.

Second, whether Tabletop is more or less popular than LARP amongst women.

I think that girls and guys may play games for different (although somewhat overlapping) reasons, which seems to inform the "D&D for the Boys, WoD for the Girls" sub-argument which is iterated in this thread.

A study into computer gaming in the 90s found that women and girls wanted more games which offered socially interactive choices, whereas guys tended to go for the more violent titles. This is of course a massive generalisation, but the ability to beat/shoot/nuke/burn/stab up stuff without needing the physical prowess to do so IRL is a key draw to many gamers, especially, but by no means exclusively young male gamers.

This is traditionally a strong part of D&D, with its lineage of combat simulation (remember that it came from a swords and sorcery war-game called Chainmail and was designed by a company called Tactical Studies Rules).

Conversely, LARP (or at least, the type of LARP which isn't decided with the business end of a boffer weapon) tends to involve free-form social simulations.

In my personal experience? Mixed RPG groups work well for the same reason that mixed social groups do. All male groups are often slightly scary, socially retarded and can turn into silverback city pretty fast. All female groups have their own drawbacks, often involving extreme cattiness. I should for the sake of balance mention that only get to observe this in social situations when my Anthropologist training kicks in and when, David Attenborough-like, I sit silently in the periphery, my presence forgotten by the observed. Therefore I've never seen what an all-female RPG group looks like.

As a GM I want a story with a mixture of play types to cater for the different needs of your group, otherwise some feel left out and the story is 2D and shallow (like a bad action film) or verbose and boring (like bad chick lit/ Stephenie Meyer novels).

I have played (but mostly GM'd) AD&D, Shadowrun, Rifts, WoD, Fading Suns and more others than I can be bothered to list here and to be honest I tended to gear things to my audience as much as possible.

Being a teenage boy at a mostly single-sex school when I started, this was principally hack-n-slash with a plot and some conversation added for the sake of completeness, continuity and rationality.

Between school and university I lived in Italy for a year (having finished school at 17 like the precocious little shit I was, I wanted to work, learn another language and generally blow off some steam before I was of legal drinking age in the UK) and after about 5 months I found a mixed-gender group of Italian gamers, which was a massive eye-opener. I played alongside men and women, massively stretching my language skills by trying to follow the plot and dialogue which they wove into the sessions.

Returning to England for Uni and checking out the Adventure Gaming Society was a huge disappointment. 90% were male. 90% of these were beardy-weirdy proto-dwarf types. The kicker was when Friday & Saturday nights turned out to be the most popular nights for games. Realising that I had come to University to learn some things which couldn't be learnt from books, I fled to spare my social life, only braving the game shops in town (staffed by a real-life British Weird Pete) to buy KoDT and some books which would sit read but unplayed in my student hovel whilst I dabbled in mind-altering substances, casual sex and varsity sports.

I know that not everyone has the same experience- my oldest friend (and oft-time gaming partner) recently married a girl who he met through the society at his university (notably their gaming group is roughly 50-50 mix) and I have had the pleasure of join their group for a game of 7th Sea (ridiculous accent at the ready) before acting as the best man at a wedding which, due to the date (17th September) had a distinctly "Pirate" theme.

I suppose the message I'm trying to relate is that stereotypes can become a self-fulfilling prophecy unless everyone works to undermine them.
 

Kelethor

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Honestly, Im afraid to ask girls to join our campaigns. not because she might laugh or will say no, but because my Fellow adventuer's are complete, effing, Tards.

"DM: Okay, The Sorceress Queen who just killed three dozen trolls with her spells turns to you and..."

Half-Orc Mcfuckwit: Can I stare at her Tits?

DM:...You get hit with chain lightning, Roll a reflex save
 

Shieldage

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Could someone please talk about "Confessions of a Part-time Sorceress: A Girl's Guide to the D&D Game (Dungeons & Dragons)" by Shelly Mazzanoble?

It's been awhile since I read it.
 

Jaded Scribe

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I'm a girl, and I love playing D&D. At most open games around the city, there's usually at least a couple of other women there.

It just depends on the people you hang with.
 

Xocoatl

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It's not the game, it's the culture. Let me give you an example: I joined a group of four men. They ignored me until I brought out food, then kicked me out when a man wanted to play (yes, that's the reason I was given). This attitude toward women isn't universal, but it's pretty common in American geek culture. Unless a group already has one or two women, I'd be wary of joining.
 

Cpu46

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Well the mage of the D&D Encounters group I'm in is a girl. I think she's dating the Elven fighter.
 

gamer_parent

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I personally believe the reason why D&D never really picked up en masse with women is also the same reason why it never really went mainstream.

1. public image: no need to elaborate on this, we all know what this is about

2. complexity: a lot of us don't realize this because we're accustomed to the conventions but... D&D is not an easy game to learn, and certainly not an easy game to master. I've only a token understanding of 4E, since I've only played a handful of times. But 3E, I can soundly say that to make a character itself can take a significant amount of time and understanding of the rules. (not to mention the ability to do a lot of abstract thinking) I'm not implying that women are worse at these tasks, but that everyone outside of this hobby tend not to wnat to think about things like this unless it's required for work. This is even before they start to understand how to craft a believable/fun character.

3. insular culture: this is more true for video gaming culture than tabletop gaming culture, but it's still true to a certain extent. gaming culture is often very insular and while we're not antagonistic or even rude to outsider, we're not exactly the most noob friendly either. We tend to make a lot of in jokes about game systems, about past adventures, about genre conventions, or maybe just a string of monty python jokes. Seriously, I'm sure half of us here will get the "uncertainty lich" reference. But half of us here probably translate to less than 1% of the rest of the population. It's not that we go out of our way to exclude people, we just do by virtue of the way we interact with each other. item 2 above only further strnegthens this point.

when you consider all of this, and then compound it with social expectations/pressures that are placed on women in the mainstream, you can understand why this is. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to first overcome the social programming of expectations and our own images. It takes further effort just to learn how to do things. And then takes even more to become fully integrated into the fold.
 

rosemystica

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I'm a girl, and I would LOVE to learn how to play D&D or Warhammer 40k, and I'd love to have friends (male or female) that played it, too!
 

Akiada

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Like video games it has a negative social stigma which is probably why you see so few girls getting into it. It's perceived as a very 'masculine' sort of hobby and not only that but carries a heavy social stigma of geekiness, and thus creates it's own self-fulfilling prophesy as I imagine most women don't feel comfortable in such a male-dominated hobby (which isn't helped by some of the more socially inept geeks making creepy passes at same females), which drives most off, which means it stays male dominated, which means....

You get the idea.
 

LostAlone

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Kelethor said:
Honestly, Im afraid to ask girls to join our campaigns. not because she might laugh or will say no, but because my Fellow adventuer's are complete, effing, Tards.

"DM: Okay, The Sorceress Queen who just killed three dozen trolls with her spells turns to you and..."

Half-Orc Mcfuckwit: Can I stare at her Tits?

DM:...You get hit with chain lightning, Roll a reflex save
For unknown (and clearly wrong) reasons, women really don't like that.

Some girls will put up with it, or have thick enough skin, but most don't. Sure it totally depends on whos in your group, but I've seen it happen plenty. Even if its not meant to be creepy or whatnot, people in general do not want to be sexually harassed while they are trying to have fun.

Men, or boys at least, tend to just forget about context and fight pathetically for attention from the ladies no matter what. Like a friend of mine once said of my old club: 'The second girls show up its right back to the fucking playground...'.
 

Altorin

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My weekly Exalted game has 2 women in it currently. We used to have a third but she moved away.

LostAlone said:
Kelethor said:
Honestly, Im afraid to ask girls to join our campaigns. not because she might laugh or will say no, but because my Fellow adventuer's are complete, effing, Tards.

"DM: Okay, The Sorceress Queen who just killed three dozen trolls with her spells turns to you and..."

Half-Orc Mcfuckwit: Can I stare at her Tits?

DM:...You get hit with chain lightning, Roll a reflex save
For unknown (and clearly wrong) reasons, women really don't like that.

Some girls will put up with it, or have thick enough skin, but most don't. Sure it totally depends on whos in your group, but I've seen it happen plenty. Even if its not meant to be creepy or whatnot, people in general do not want to be sexually harassed while they are trying to have fun.

Men, or boys at least, tend to just forget about context and fight pathetically for attention from the ladies no matter what. Like a friend of mine once said of my old club: 'The second girls show up its right back to the fucking playground...'.
in my experience, the girls who like RPGs would get a kick out of that, especially the retribution. The girl we lost in our exalted game ran into every battle naked. She had a combo that involved evoking several charms while taking her clothes off. All while getting ready to rip people to pieces with her bare hands.

I miss that girl. lol
 

gamer_parent

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Altorin said:
My weekly Exalted game has 2 women in it currently. We used to have a third but she moved away.

LostAlone said:
Kelethor said:
Honestly, Im afraid to ask girls to join our campaigns. not because she might laugh or will say no, but because my Fellow adventuer's are complete, effing, Tards.

"DM: Okay, The Sorceress Queen who just killed three dozen trolls with her spells turns to you and..."

Half-Orc Mcfuckwit: Can I stare at her Tits?

DM:...You get hit with chain lightning, Roll a reflex save
For unknown (and clearly wrong) reasons, women really don't like that.

Some girls will put up with it, or have thick enough skin, but most don't. Sure it totally depends on whos in your group, but I've seen it happen plenty. Even if its not meant to be creepy or whatnot, people in general do not want to be sexually harassed while they are trying to have fun.

Men, or boys at least, tend to just forget about context and fight pathetically for attention from the ladies no matter what. Like a friend of mine once said of my old club: 'The second girls show up its right back to the fucking playground...'.
in my experience, the girls who like RPGs would get a kick out of that, especially the retribution. The girl we lost in our exalted game ran into every battle naked. She had a combo that involved evoking several charms while taking her clothes off. All while getting ready to rip people to pieces with her bare hands.

I miss that girl. lol
druid/swordsage, tiger claw discipline focus + time stand still + wildshaping + improved grapple = big huge kungfu bear going all akuma on opponent = WIN