Is Doom 2016 has best FPS level design since Half life or even 90s old shooters?

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

Hello

so my all friends and fellow gamers as we see throughout the history of FPS map design by post 2007 most FPS design are straight forward like this

with the exception of some games this was the core of FPS genre. level design were incredibly straight forward. even old school shooters like shadow warrior and hard reset doesnot have good level design at all. but untill Doom released and OMG!!!

can anyone believe this type of level design in this generation of gaming??!

when dumbing down and making everything cinematic, accessible is a norm today. and only ID software can do this type of level design!!. Even other PC developers failed at what ID software achieved. painkiller developer has been trying to make FPS like doom since painkiller and still failing. painkiller was close arena shooter with no level design, so was hard reset. even shadow warrior which has better level design that those 2. then finally by shadow warrior 2 they are going non linear route finally!.

so what do you think? in history i dont see any other example like how ID software can done it. Bring on Doom Sequel!!.

 

[DefunctTheory]

 

[SolidState]

Once again, you're stripping out all the nuance from this particular argument.
For instance, Portal 1 & 2 are popularly considered to be a pretty awesome pair of games, despite both being completely 100% linear (and rather short too).

It's not as simple as "complexity = good" or "linear = bad". As I've already said, there's far more nuance to this discussion than that.

Also this:

 

[Zhukov]

I'm having trouble hearing you over the sound of my 28th fight in a locked square room with a few raised platforms.

Who knows, maybe this time there'll be three Barons and two Mancubi instead of three Mancubi and two Barons. My gosh, wouldn't that be something!

 

[Hawki]

I started typing out a witty response, but you, good sir, have reminded me that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Come on B-cell, at least try to make these threads entertaining, if not intelligent. Hey, maybe discuss a genre outside FPS? Or are they just not manly enough?

 

[IceForce]

Yep, this is all that needs to be said really.

Also, the OP seems to have posted the same image twice, but the first one is marked "1993", and the second image is marked "2016" despite it being the exact same fucking image.
What's up with that?

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

I'm having trouble hearing you over the sound of my 28th fight in a locked square room with a few raised platforms.

Who knows, maybe this time there'll be three Barons and two Mancubi instead of three Mancubi and two Barons. My gosh, wouldn't that be something!

Funny, what you describe sounds suspiciously like Painkiller, Hard Reset or Shadow Warrior, which cannot be, because those are "close arena shooter with no level design". And Doom 2016 isn't ... somehow.

Anyway, the level design of old school Doom was more than just the complexity of the maps. The best Doom levels were about which enemies were in the level and where and in what configurations they were placed. About which weapons, ammo and power-ups were available in a level. You could have labyrinthine levels filled with loads of mostly weaker enemies which had you rely mostly on your shotgun because that was the only ammo commonly available. Levels that were endurance rounds in an arena filled with mancubi and arachnotrons. Levels were you ran a gauntlet of exploding barrels.

Doom 2016 is for the most part what you described: a succession of arenas where enemies spawn in waves and the glory kill system ensures you'll always have ammo for a variety of your weapons. It's fun in its own way, but old school Doom it is not.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Also, the OP seems to have posted the same image twice, but the first one is marked "1993", and the second image is marked "2016" despite it being the exact same fucking image.
What's up with that?

He hasn't payed attention to a game since 1998, and you expect him to pay attention to what he's posting?

Spoiler

I'm having trouble hearing you over the sound of my 28th fight in a locked square room with a few raised platforms.

Who knows, maybe this time there'll be three Barons and two Mancubi instead of three Mancubi and two Barons. My gosh, wouldn't that be something!

Funny, what you describe sounds suspiciously like Painkiller, Hard Reset or Shadow Warrior, which cannot be, because those are "close arena shooter with no level design". And Doom 2016 isn't ... somehow.

Anyway, the level design of old school Doom was more than just the complexity of the maps. The best Doom levels were about which enemies were in the level and where and in what configurations they were placed. About which weapons, ammo and power-ups were available in a level. You could have labyrinthine levels filled with loads of mostly weaker enemies which had you rely mostly on your shotgun because that was the only ammo commonly available. Levels that were endurance rounds in an arena filled with mancubi and arachnotrons. Levels were you ran a gauntlet of exploding barrels.

Doom 2016 is for the most part what you described: a succession of arenas where enemies spawn in waves and the glory kill system ensures you'll always have ammo for a variety of your weapons. It's fun in its own way, but old school Doom it is not.

I just started playing Doom (40% off!) and I'm now actually glad that the multiplayer Beta was so bad. It lowered the bar down far enough to where I can enjoy Doom 2016 for what it really is - An enjoyable, pretty, mindless shooter that doesn't even try to 'revitalize' old school shooters.

The map design is, from what I can tell, as inspired as Bioshock Infinite. A straight line with the occasional arena and side tunnel that goes to a dead end. Now that I think of it, the maps are basically like FF13, only prettier and better at hiding how absolutely pointless the whole movement outside of battle thing is.

 

[SweetShark]

I played the recent Doom game and it is is glorious. 9/10 for me.
However I must disagree with the level desing...
Yes, the new Doom in comparison with other FPS, have indeed more interesting complex maps. Sadly it isn't so exciting when you realised most of the times when you see a big open area, you instantly know there will be a fight.
Also I would love if the enemies didn't spawn like that. I would love if it was like in the classic Doom games: The Demons being there already to get slaughtered by you and not wait for the next monster to spawn.
Yes, the original Dooms games spawn monsters as well, but it wasn't a major factor. Most Demons you kill was already part of the map.

 

[kilenem]

Is it better than Border Lands 2. Because borderlands two has some of the best map Designs in Gaming. Most of the maps loop back to the start or have an exit to prevent back tracking. If you play the Pre Sequel you can see where 2K screwed up and the combat Flow is terrible. In BL2 rarely do you back track through the massive amount of enimies you just muderrd which Just makes the area empty and Life less.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Spoiler: Half-Life 2 level design

Seriously, one of the biggest complaints I had when playing Half-Life 2 initially was how linear it was. I may not have minded, but I kept seeing people praise the game for awesome level design while simultaneously throwing that 1993 vs. 2010 picture up, only to realize Half-Life 2's level design is just like the 2010 picture. It completely went against my expectations. Sure, now I don't mind the level design of Half-Life 2. In fact, it is probably the best part of the game, but it isn't that great if your standard is 90s DOOM-styled games. BioShock 2, which ironically released in 2010, actually comes closer:

Spoiler

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

can anyone believe this type of level design in this generation of gaming??!

2016 Doom came out in 1993?

Spoiler

 

[Elvis Starburst]

[Personal edit due to dickitry. Original post was way more heated sounding than it needed to be, and anyone who saw it... I greatly apologize.]

New version: Oh, this again? More highly opinionated "everything else is trash while a thing I like is better" stuff, YAY.

I looked at that image of the new DOOM map. Wanna know what I see? An extremely linear level that only looks complex because it's layered on top of each other with a small, singular room or two attached to each corridor. Last time I checked, that's still HIGHLY LINEAR. So no, it's not better by any means

 

[SweetShark]

For God shake, why you are again so agressive with B-Cell?
Yes, he established he LOVE DOOM to Death. And yes, I disagree with his opinion.
What will happen if I post at some point the translated Greek Doom Comic I promised? Will you attack me as well?
I am doing this also for love you know. I don't want others to express their hate just become I made a thread about Doom...
Lets agree or disagree with B-Cell more maturely, ok?
Also me neither know proper grammar, punctuation and spelling, so sorry guys.
Peace.

 

[Poetic Nova]

Nah.

Doom 2016 makes people think it is open, but it steers you from arena to arena. Which is one of my problems with this game.

When we talk about open Doom maps, I say Mt Erebus, Industrial Zone and Citadel. Doom 2016 wishes it could come close to those.

PS.
Still not your friend, buddy

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Basically this

 

[Weaver]

Is this guy the ghost of Eternal Nothingness?

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Is this guy the ghost of Eternal Nothingness?

No, not even close. Not until B-Cell starts divulging WAY too much about bizarre fetishes of his. Unless this FPS fixation is more then just obsessive fanboyism... *shudders*

 

[Elvis Starburst]

For God shake, why you are again so agressive with B-Cell?
Yes, he established he LOVE DOOM to Death. And yes, I disagree with his opinion.
What will happen if I post at some point the translated Greek Doom Comic I promised? Will you attack me as well?
I am doing this also for love you know. I don't want others to express their hate just become I made a thread about Doom...
Lets agree or disagree with B-Cell more maturely, ok?
Also me neither know proper grammar, punctuation and spelling, so sorry guys.
Peace.

[Another edited post to condense things a little bit and word things better. Double edited it cause fuck it, it's too wordy and I still feel like an asshole for all I said]

In relation to my "aggressiveness" lemme sum it up like this... B-Cell consistently makes topics like these for validation of his own thoughts and refuses to take in info from others. I call him out because, while I don't always word it the best, my hopes and intentions are to spark B-Cell into improving his post and topic quality by pointing out the flaws in the discussion. I join in on the fun of joking about "badassery and manliness" that B-Cell clings to so strongly cause it's the only form of entertainment there is in these repeated threads. I don't call always him out in the best way, and I admit that.

He's built the same reputation here as he did in GT (as mentioned by previous GT forum users) And here, that sort of quality is not well regarded or accepted by many (as evidenced by some of the responses in this very thread). The hope is that he'll improve and shed that reputation away, and become a well regarded poster and forum user. It's a fools dream, but that's all I want out of it all. He keeps saying "My friends" and I see few people agreeing to that. Wouldn't it be nice if we could all say that towards him?

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

Is this guy the ghost of Eternal Nothingness?

Who is eternal nothingness?

and btw to posters above this is gaming board. we can agree and disagree in very civilized manner. In recent years i never seen any FPS game that has this type of maze like level design and this was my biggest surprised because i was hyping Doom but never knew they were doing this kind of level design as i thought its design would be like Doom 3. straight forward corridor. infact i thought it would be Doom 3 with doom 1/2 gameplay.