Is Dragon Age the most Gay Friendly Game?

[CD-R]

I don't know I think New Vegas is pretty gay friendly. I've come across a few gay characters even one of the companions you can recruit is gay. As far as Dragon Age goes it's not gay if it's an elf.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

This is a little off topic, but I really have to ask...

What does "gay friendly" mean? An American colleague of mine used this term just yesterday and it completely threw me. Gay friendly? As opposed to what? Gay unfriendly?

I'm British, but I'm building a website at the moment for an American client and the fucked up American attitude to gays is becoming a real headache. We want to provide the users with the ability to filter their results according to preferred sexuality, but according to my colleague the wording has to be just right or people will take offence and maybe even legal action. Apparently we can't just use the word "gay". Why the hell not? Is the word "gay" offensive or illegal in America? She got uncomfortable and suggested we use "gay friendly" as an alternative, but I pointed out that anyone who advertises on our site and doesn't tick the "gay friendly" box is immediately breaking the law.

Seriously, why can't you just say "gay" in America?

I just looked up "gay friendly" on Wikipedia. It says this is a North American term meaning: places, policies, people or institutions that are open and welcoming to gay people. Which makes it as clear as mud to me. Aren't all US places and institutions required to be "welcoming" to gay people by law? Back on topic, how does a game qualify as gay friendly? Is Gears of War not welcoming to gay people?

What irritates me here is America's obsession with PC terms. Afro-American! WTF? Just say black and be done with it. Black is only a racist term if you are racist. To the rest of us, it's a colour. The mere existence of the term "gay-friendly" implies that anything not labelled as such is gay-unfriendly. Black. White. Gay. Straight. Man. Woman. These are not racist, sexist or anything else-ist terms unless you choose to see them as such, and if you do you should ask yourself why.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

Persona 4 seems to be getting thrown up a lot lately, no doubt partially influenced by Extra Credits analisys of Kanji's character. I haven't played the game myself so either their is some genuine profundity to be elicited from the experience or it's being lauded without real merit, I'm a bit skeptical about the overtly camp way in which his sexual disposition is exposed but maybe that's his own psychology messing with him. Unless its important to some overaching plot theme I'm more drawn to sexuality being underplayed it shouldn't be the most defining aspect of a character. That's what I appreciate about Fallout: New Vegas there are many gay/bi characters is sexuality is glossed over in conversation, its mentioned but they don't dwell on it. For example, Arcade Gannon is a despondant and sarcastic individual with a mysterious past from which he seeks redemption who also just happens to be gay. Not to say that sexuality is something that shouldn't be explored and examined but it's also important to emphasise that it's a minor idiosyncrasy along with plenty of characteristics that encompasses ones personality.

 

[theriddlen]

Argh, i hated it.

I was trying to make friends with Zevran so he could teach me how to be assassin, and suddenly he starts to hit on me... brr!

 

[FangsFirst]

Aren't all US places and institutions required to be "welcoming" to gay people by law?

Considering the Army *just* struck down a policy that said "No gays allowed, unless they pretend to be straight," I'd say you are mistaken there.* There's some debate--typically motivated by perceptions of the morality of homosexuality--as to whether such things are covered. Um, tried to phrase that carefully enough to not make that some weird argument, but basically it's not as cut and dry as other types of discrimination are, legally speaking. Except in places where it is laid out. But when it isn't it is occasionally perceived as an exception to rules about race, sex, etc.

*That sounds confrontational, which is not intended to be. You phrased it as a question, so I was suggesting that, in fact, the answer was not a concrete "yes."

What irritates me here is America's obsession with PC terms. Afro-American! WTF? Just say black and be done with it. Black is only a racist term if you are racist. To the rest of us, it's a colour. The mere existence of the term "gay-friendly" implies that anything not labelled as such is gay-unfriendly. Black. White. Gay. Straight. Man. Woman. These are not racist, sexist or anything else-ist terms unless you choose to see them as such, and if you do you should ask yourself why.

heh, somewhat ironically, "Afro-American" is considered un-PC (Berke Breathed made some hilarious comments on this in the 80s via his comic strip Bloom County when chauvanist Steve Dallas had his mind scrambled by aliens and became ultra-PC). But you're right, to an extent.

Endless balance: the more we draw attention to discrimination, the more the lines are firmly established as existing. But then, the more we ignore it, the more they are allowed to fester. I wish someone could find the right balance.

Anyway, that said: DA:O is "gay-friendly" only in the sense that it might appeal to the segment of the populace that goes "tee hee sex scenes" and allowed the gay segment to get their jollies in this like the straight folk.
Which isn't saying tons, I guess.

The whole Fable/Sims approach is more "respectful," as others noted: it's not a big deal, it's just something there.

Argh, i hated it.

I was trying to make friends with Zevran so he could teach me how to be assassin, and suddenly he starts to hit on me... brr!

Good gravy. So he hit on you, so what? I mean, I'd say more...but...that's really it. So what? People misread signals, it's only going to be worse when dealing with the limitations of a game that can't be programmed for endless variational minutiae.

 

[hecticpicnic]

I got to agree the sims is pretty gay friendly.I would say anyting thats not gay offencive and has as much man fanservice (manservice)as the other way round(not just being gay friendly but unisex friendly.Now being "homosexually insightful" is a completely different lemon cheesecake.

 

[hecticpicnic]

This is a little off topic, but I really have to ask...

What does "gay friendly" mean? An American colleague of mine used this term just yesterday and it completely threw me. Gay friendly? As opposed to what? Gay unfriendly?

I'm British, but I'm building a website at the moment for an American client and the fucked up American attitude to gays is becoming a real headache. We want to provide the users with the ability to filter their results according to preferred sexuality, but according to my colleague the wording has to be just right or people will take offence and maybe even legal action. Apparently we can't just use the word "gay". Why the hell not? Is the word "gay" offensive or illegal in America? She got uncomfortable and suggested we use "gay friendly" as an alternative, but I pointed out that anyone who advertises on our site and doesn't tick the "gay friendly" box is immediately breaking the law.

Seriously, why can't you just say "gay" in America?

I just looked up "gay friendly" on Wikipedia. It says this is a North American term meaning: places, policies, people or institutions that are open and welcoming to gay people. Which makes it as clear as mud to me. Aren't all US places and institutions required to be "welcoming" to gay people by law? Back on topic, how does a game qualify as gay friendly? Is Gears of War not welcoming to gay people?

What irritates me here is America's obsession with PC terms. Afro-American! WTF? Just say black and be done with it. Black is only a racist term if you are racist. To the rest of us, it's a colour. The mere existence of the term "gay-friendly" implies that anything not labelled as such is gay-unfriendly. Black. White. Gay. Straight. Man. Woman. These are not racist, sexist or anything else-ist terms unless you choose to see them as such, and if you do you should ask yourself why.

You preach it brother ,hhallelujah!

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

You preach it brother ,hhallelujah!

Sorry. I spend a lot of time in the US and I like it there, but the PC crap really winds me up. It's not like it's all perfect here in Britain, but at least we are allowed to call a spade a spade without getting sued.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Aren't all US places and institutions required to be "welcoming" to gay people by law?

Considering the Army *just* struck down a policy that said "No gays allowed, unless they pretend to be straight," I'd say you are mistaken there.* There's some debate--typically motivated by perceptions of the morality of homosexuality--as to whether such things are covered. Um, tried to phrase that carefully enough to not make that some weird argument, but basically it's not as cut and dry as other types of discrimination are, legally speaking. Except in places where it is laid out. But when it isn't it is occasionally perceived as an exception to rules about race, sex, etc.

*That sounds confrontational, which is not intended to be. You phrased it as a question, so I was suggesting that, in fact, the answer was not a concrete "yes."

What irritates me here is America's obsession with PC terms. Afro-American! WTF? Just say black and be done with it. Black is only a racist term if you are racist. To the rest of us, it's a colour. The mere existence of the term "gay-friendly" implies that anything not labelled as such is gay-unfriendly. Black. White. Gay. Straight. Man. Woman. These are not racist, sexist or anything else-ist terms unless you choose to see them as such, and if you do you should ask yourself why.

heh, somewhat ironically, "Afro-American" is considered un-PC (Berke Breathed made some hilarious comments on this in the 80s via his comic strip Bloom County when chauvanist Steve Dallas had his mind scrambled by aliens and became ultra-PC). But you're right, to an extent.

Endless balance: the more we draw attention to discrimination, the more the lines are firmly established as existing. But then, the more we ignore it, the more they are allowed to fester. I wish someone could find the right balance.

Anyway, that said: DA:O is "gay-friendly" only in the sense that it might appeal to the segment of the populace that goes "tee hee sex scenes" and allowed the gay segment to get their jollies in this like the straight folk.
Which isn't saying tons, I guess.

The whole Fable/Sims approach is more "respectful," as others noted: it's not a big deal, it's just something there.

Hmm. According to my American colleague it's illegal to turn someone away from, say, a bar or restaurant or whatever because they're gay. As for Afro-American, it was only five years ago that an American (a different one) told me I should use that term instead of black because "black is racist". And her husband and daughter both agreed. So I just took their word for it, though I facepalmed on the inside.

 

[Blind Sight]

And yet every gay relationship seems hollow and stupid.

Plus stereotypic gay man in form of a FUCKING ELF was so offensive and terrible it turned me off of the game.

acctually I played as female elf and I didnt even know that zevran could be gay untill I read it somwhere else, to me he seemed to be a real womanizer and tried to hit on me, I regret not trying to ramance him

anyway If you see zevran as "sterotypical" gay then it dosnt seem like you played the game because I never got a gay vibe from him

It's because of his accent, it's hinted with a somewhat Spanish tone and people take that as him being feminine for some reason. I thought Zevran was hilarious, I blue balled him so much with my male character.

*That sounds confrontational, which is not intended to be. You phrased it as a question, so I was suggesting that, in fact, the answer was not a concrete "yes."

What irritates me here is America's obsession with PC terms. Afro-American! WTF? Just say black and be done with it. Black is only a racist term if you are racist. To the rest of us, it's a colour. The mere existence of the term "gay-friendly" implies that anything not labelled as such is gay-unfriendly. Black. White. Gay. Straight. Man. Woman. These are not racist, sexist or anything else-ist terms unless you choose to see them as such, and if you do you should ask yourself why.

heh, somewhat ironically, "Afro-American" is considered un-PC (Berke Breathed made some hilarious comments on this in the 80s via his comic strip Bloom County when chauvanist Steve Dallas had his mind scrambled by aliens and became ultra-PC). But you're right, to an extent.

It was even funnier when he was accidently turned black and thought he was in some bizarre, moralizing version of the Twilight Zone.

 

[FangsFirst]

It was even funnier when he was accidently turned black and thought he was in some bizarre, moralizing version of the Twilight Zone.

Ahh...that strip could do no wrong. I am loving the re-released hardcovers of the whole thing so much.
"...Rod?"

Hmm. According to my American colleague it's illegal to turn someone away from, say, a bar or restaurant or whatever because they're gay. As for Afro-American, it was only five years ago that an American (a different one) told me I should use that term instead of black because "black is racist". And her husband and daughter both agreed. So I just took their word for it, though I facepalmed on the inside.

I will admit that I'm not up on the laws, but they could be state or local, too. Still, there are random twitches here and there against homosexuality still. Not quite full on segregation, admittedly, but there's still plenty more open condemnation than there is for most other things to discriminate on. And more condoning of it. Not to say it's constantly rampant and anyone homosexual here must fear for their lives and constantly keep an eye out, but it's less an outrage if someone does use that as a qualifier.

And yeah, "Afro-American" was outdated in the 70s/80s and became "African American." I use that in unfamiliar company, but generally anyone I am familiar with could not care less and just says "black" and accepts "black." Thankfully the terminology issues have died down in, well, the last 5-10 years.
But, as suggested by my mixed approach, died down does not mean they are dead.
And yes, it is stupid, so long as we're nitpicking through terms that don't carry an intrinsic insult or derogatory inflection.
Honestly, though, the worst "Afro-American" gets you is a sigh, rolled eyes, a slight discomfort from those around you, or a couple of people snickering at your outdated terminology.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I will admit that I'm not up on the laws, but they could be state or local, too. Still, there are random twitches here and there against homosexuality still. Not quite full on segregation, admittedly, but there's still plenty more open condemnation than there is for most other things to discriminate on. And more condoning of it. Not to say it's constantly rampant and anyone homosexual here must fear for their lives and constantly keep an eye out, but it's less an outrage if someone does use that as a qualifier.

And yeah, "Afro-American" was outdated in the 70s/80s and became "African American." I use that in unfamiliar company, but generally anyone I am familiar with could not care less and just says "black" and accepts "black." Thankfully the terminology issues have died down in, well, the last 5-10 years.
But, as suggested by my mixed approach, died down does not mean they are dead.
And yes, it is stupid, so long as we're nitpicking through terms that don't carry an intrinsic insult or derogatory inflection.
Honestly, though, the worst "Afro-American" gets you is a sigh, rolled eyes, a slight discomfort from those around you, or a couple of people snickering at your outdated terminology.

Oh, she might have said "African American" and not "Afro-American". So, you're saying that one of those is PC and the other isn't? I am gobsmacked. Who decides this shit?

As for the feelings towards gays, yeah, I know what they're like. I've mixed with a bunch of what I think you guys call "blue collar" American men, and they were openly and fanatically homophobic. And I see the same thing here in Britain. But that doesn't mean we can't use the word "gay" on a website over here. It's not the presence of homophobia in America that surprises me, it's the bizarre attempt to correct it through the use of different terminology. Like, Afro-American is not PC, but African American is fine? Honestly I'm just mindfucked.

 

[LadyMint]

I would argue that this honor belongs to The Sims Franchise. You can make an entire town that is homosexual if you so desire. Any two adult Sims who are in love may get married, and there's an adoption system so they can have children. In The Sims 3, there is a shrine you can go to that will impregnate female Sims just by visiting. No male pregnancies, though, which is odd because you could get a male pregnant in The Sims 2 by having them get abducted by aliens.

What irritates me here is America's obsession with PC terms. Afro-American! WTF? Just say black and be done with it. Black is only a racist term if you are racist. To the rest of us, it's a colour. The mere existence of the term "gay-friendly" implies that anything not labelled as such is gay-unfriendly. Black. White. Gay. Straight. Man. Woman. These are not racist, sexist or anything else-ist terms unless you choose to see them as such, and if you do you should ask yourself why.

I don't like the term "black" for describing myself and others because in most cases it is incorrect. I am not black-skinned. I have seen actual people with skin so black it almost appeared to be navy blue. For them it rings true but for me, it's nowhere near accurate.

 

[Jazoni89]

I don't know I think New Vegas is pretty gay friendly. I've come across a few gay characters even one of the companions you can recruit is gay. As far as Dragon Age goes it's not gay if it's an elf.

The reason why New Vegas is very gay friendly might be due to the fact Chris Avelone (the executive producer of Fallout new Vegas) is gay, and he wanted to incorporate some of his personal preferences into the game.

In the game their's roughly a dozen people who are openly gay/lesbian (including two followers, Arcade, and Veronica), you have a perk which changes interactions with a npc of the same sex (which gives you options for flirting and the like), and then their is also two options for gay sex aswell.

Fallout new vegas couldn't get any gayer (in a good way mind).

 

[Jazoni89]

There don't seem to be many gay hostile games.

But Dragon Age and Fallout seem to treat homosexuality as no big deal, which seems like most gay-friendly route if you ask me.

Gay hostile, maybe GTA 4?

Their was a load of homosexual jokes in that game, and homosexual characters being taken the piss out off, especially in the DLC (ballad of gay Tony).

 

[loremazd]

Persona 4 seems to be getting thrown up a lot lately, no doubt partially influenced by Extra Credits analisys of Kanji's character. I haven't played the game myself so either their is some genuine profundity to be elicited from the experience or it's being lauded without real merit, I'm a bit skeptical about the overtly camp way in which his sexual disposition is exposed but maybe that's his own psychology messing with him. Unless its important to some overaching plot theme I'm more drawn to sexuality being underplayed it shouldn't be the most defining aspect of a character. That's what I appreciate about Fallout: New Vegas there are many gay/bi characters is sexuality is glossed over in conversation, its mentioned but they don't dwell on it. For example, Arcade Gannon is a despondant and sarcastic individual with a mysterious past from which he seeks redemption who also just happens to be gay. Not to say that sexuality is something that shouldn't be explored and examined but it's also important to emphasise that it's a minor idiosyncrasy along with plenty of characteristics that encompasses ones personality.

Somewhat, i'd suggest you play it simply because it's well written and generally fun, but the basic idea is that he's been ashamed and unable to express himself, his likes, or his sexuality, and so his repressed desires to express himself comes out in a particularly flamboyant manner. It can serve to turn you off, but on the other hand, most of the exposition outside of what happens on the midnight channel concerns him beginning to be more comfortable with himself through his "non manly" interests.

I in particular find him interesting because his epiphany doesn't lead to any kind of hokey "I'm here and i'm queer" moment, it's subtle baby steps that will lead him to accepting his homosexuality despite societies pressures against it.

That being said, all the shadows of the characters are flamboyant in expression, that's kinda the point.

 

[Varoona]

to agree with some of the people on this fourm calling a game Gay Friendly just because you can have sexual relations with a character of the same sex is about as meaningless as bedazzling your own shit in the toilet only to flush it. from what i've seen persona 4 does touch on some good aspects of gender conflicts and identity crisis's more so then many of the other games but most still lacks a true player character conflict system. A true "gay friendly" game would involve not only the conflict of your main character discovering their sexuality but also the conflict of others discovering it as well. Let's take dragon age for example. Alistar the classic templar, "Church-going", Straight, White, male. If your character started to woo Liliana for example and the two of you got serious and instead of just saying "good for you" it actually effected how he reacted to you, looked at you, and spoke to you it would expand the game in an entirely new direction. Or even if you started to woo liliana as a female character if she had her own conflicts because her chantry life looked down on such things it would add more to the story. Adding gender diversity in games that is not stereotypical is hard enough as it is. take Ivy from soul calibur, or Laura croft, hell even cortana. They all fit in to the same "classic male fantasy. but adding a level of sexuality conflict is even harder still. I honestly don't see a true "Gay friendly" game coming out anytime soon. Or at least not until we break down the barriers of stereo typing and actually start recreating a true human experience. Recreating a human experience does not mean it has to be a boring game however. For example if you took a mid evil game and had the main male character start to be interested in men. Then you could add you and your lover constantly running from the church that wished to burn you for your crimes. Even if you were the hero that just saved them.

Any way that's my opinion at least. take it as you will