Is Free Will an illusion?

[D_987]

Some problems:

A) That's the Daily Mail.
B) That experiment does not necessarily disprove free will. All it proves is that when a subject is forced to make swift judgements when confronted with a mind numbing amount of stimuli, the (theoretical) subconscious has an effect. Free will is far more concerned with what could be called macro decisions, such as me deciding whether or not to go on holiday next year, down to whether or not to go and get a sandwich right now.

Now, saying that, I am of the opinion that free will is an illusion. After all, human society works on stats that are fairly accurate. Take 1000 people and an expert could work out, with a small degree of error, the number of criminals, rich and poor, homosexuals, musicians, scientists - the lot. It is a nice illusion, though, and crucially said expert could not work exactly who did what. There would always be unpredictability.

A) I KNEW somebody was going to say that; the Mail can't edit quotes and I doubt their science section is going to be as greatly flawed as the rest of the paper (Google the story and you will see many scientific communities had this story running around the time the article was published.)

B) Good points; thats why I posted this, to hear others opinions on the subject.

 

[Uncompetative]

I'm exercising my free will by not reading the OP.

 

[D_987]

It's nice that they performed the appropriate experiment to verify it, but seriously. Children figure this out. Why did they act so surprised?

Children figure out that your mind calculates your actions several seconds before you "think" of them?

Children figure out that thinking in words counts for very little in terms of your decision-making, sure.

"Child" might be stretching it, but it's certainly something you notice before you really become a teenager.

Oh, I see what your saying, decision making is also attached to the "Fight or Flight" ideaology, but that could be a result of the past (as stated in the second quote).

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

My worry stems from the fact that you were reading the Daily Mail in the first place! If other papers and journals ran the story, you should quote them. They would have done it much more succinctly. I mean, what was that 'folk science' bullshit all about?

 

[D_987]

I'm exercising my free will by not reading the OP.

Good for you, just a pity you didn't contribute anything...

 

[D_987]

My worry stems from the fact that you were reading the Daily Mail in the first place! If other papers and journals ran the story, you should quote them. They would have done it much more succinctly. I mean, what was that 'folk science' bullshit all about?

Well I read about the topic in G2 today (The Guardian) and it was mentioned in a tiny paragraph as a "brain bender". I was intrigued, and consequently ran a google search.

If you want a really boring version:

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/106/3/623

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/aug/28/mindovermatter

 

[Beffudled Sheep]

Free will... hmmmm... sure it exists.

 

[D_987]

Free will... hmmmm... sure it exists.

How can you be sure?

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

Can't be arsed reading long articles or writing huge rants this late at night. So how's about I just sum up an answer to the topic question? OK!

Free will exists, but this free will is ultimately crippled. Whether it's from outside sources or deep within your own brain.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

See, that G2 article was much, much better. It discussed the limits of the scientific experiment, and didn't even try to find the answer. I demand that you delete the Mail quote and replace it with this! Maybe just the experiment paragraph for those too lazy to read.

 

[smokeybearsb]

When you think about free will you have to factor in something called predestination, if you don't know what that is, then it is the belief that it is determined whether or not you will go to hell (no I'm not throwing religious crap in here). What I'm basically about to say is that you either have free will, or everything you do is already predetermined-you have no real control over your actions since they are decided anyway. You can't really prove either one, though.
OK, so we're learning about Paradise Lost in my English class, which has to do with free will and what not. Our argument is whether or not free will exists, or are your actions predetermined (i.e. one knows what will happened, but the course you take is undetermined, which constitutes free will)
My English teacher (to illustrate to us free will and the concept of predestination) told us about how he would put something like a Snickers Bar on a stool in the middle of a room, and have a bunch of other candy lying around the room elsewhere. He would then tell his son, "Ok, you can eat any piece of candy in that room, you just can't eat the Snickers Bar." Then he would go away to watch what his son would do. He KNEW his son would take the Snickers, and he basically was proving the point that everything is predetermined, but what happens along the way is free will.
Of course, his son would take the Snickers, at which point he would jump out and be like "Aha! I caught you!" lol but anyway, I don't think you can prove that free will does or does not exist, so I would stay away from that argument. Well, I mean, say you think free will exists. How are you gonna go about proving that? You could just say, you have no control of your actions, that's all predetermined. You can't prove that either. It's just this really big chicken or the egg thing, which leads me to all these philosophical though processes that make me wonder "Why are we here?" (Which believe me guys, if you sit there and think about it, you will hurt yourself and you will never again understand why you do anything). It's fun though to.

 

[Uncompetative]

I'm exercising my free will by not reading the OP.

Good for you, just a pity you didn't contribute anything...

...but I did.

I demonstrated an alternative course of action that everyone could take... not to undermine the thread, but to champion free will.

 

[D_987]

I'm exercising my free will by not reading the OP.

Good for you, just a pity you didn't contribute anything...

...but I did.

I demonstrated an alternative course of action that everyone could take... not to undermine the thread, but to champion free will.

Yet your brain had already decided to do that several seconds before you thought of the possibility.

 

[lacktheknack]

I'm forced to write "No, it's not".

 

[D_987]

I'm forced to write "No, it's not".

And why is that?

 

[Beffudled Sheep]

Free will... hmmmm... sure it exists.

How can you be sure?

I don't know if what i'm about to say makes any sense but deal with it. You can make yourself do things that will bring you pain and know that it will bring you pain. Say you touch a hot pan or heater a few times, it hurts doesn't it. Now under normal circumstances you probably wouldn't do so again unless you're into pain or extremely thick, right. The thing is that you can still do it if you wanted to even though you know that it brings pain and pain is bad. You can do whatever you want even though you will be telling yourself nooooooooooo. Like i said before this probably doesn't make any sense but i've never thought about this before and just thought it up on the spot. I usually have to ponder a question like this for at least a few months if i am to come up with a decent response or answer. I apologize if this makes no sense.

 

[D_987]

Free will... hmmmm... sure it exists.

How can you be sure?

I don't know if what i'm about to say makes any sense but deal with it. You can make yourself do things that will bring you pain and know that it will bring you pain. Say you touch a hot pan or heater a few times, it hurts doesn't it. Now under normal circumstances you probably wouldn't do so again unless you're into pain or extremely thick, right. The thing is that you can still do it if you wanted to even though you know that it brings pain and pain is bad. You can do whatever you want even though you will be telling yourself nooooooooooo. Like i said before this probably doesn't make any sense but i've never thought about this before and just thought it up on the spot. I usually have to ponder a question like this for at least a few months if i am to come up with a decent response or answer. I apologize if this makes no sense.

No, I understand what you are saying, maybe thats a flaw in the human design?