Is Free Will Possible?

[Daden]

An extremely common theme in film/literature/videogames/etc. is that destiny is not set because human beings have "free will," the power of making choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

The problem is, I cannot understand how free will can exist. Human beings cannot live free of external circumstances because we do not exist in some sort of vacuum, removed from influence. There are always forces acting on us, and all of our thoughts and actions are the sum total of our previous experiences and genetics coupled with the forces acting upon us presently.

When I try to make this argument with almost anyone, they look at me like I have grown a second head. "No," they say, "but you always have a choice one way or another." Another common line of thought is that metacognition (thinking about thinking) somehow uniquely frees humans from cause and effect. Some will even go as far as to state that the seemingly random movement of subatomic particles proves that there is no cause and effect in the universe, but, to me, this seems like a cop-out excuse for systems we do not yet (or, perhaps, cannot) understand.

So, I pose the following questions to you fellow escapists: Is free will possible? Why or why not?

Note: This is not a religious debate, but if anyone claims a supernatural orgin to free will, please be respectful.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Huh. I was beaten to it.

But yeah, regardless of circumstance influencing our decisions, nothing is ultimately a gamebreaker against choice.

 

[Urgh76]

I think that everything you do has already been in effect, including your thinking of "I'm going to break free of these chains"

Even if you make a hard left confusing even yourself, I believe things will remain as they were supposed to.

That also ties in with time travel, because if you think about it... well, let's just end it like that.

Or you can just watch Family guy: Road to Germany, Futurama: Bender's Big Score, and Futurama: Roswell that ends Well, to see what I mean

 

[Jezzeh]

I think it would depend on a person's perception of "free will." You make the correct point that we are never without outside influence; be it the media, peer pressure, our families, or whatever have you, there are constantly other stimuli in our environment that mold and shape our actions and choices.

However, the idea of "free will" comes into play when you consider how a person can /perceive/ these outside stimuli. One person may see the actions of others one way, and other people in an entirely different manner - The point can be posed that these opposing opinions can be formed simply from previous exposure to circumstances, but one has to wonder if this is always the case. Right and wrong are seen differently by different people (though many believe that there is some sort of universal "medium") and it is subtle (or not so subtle) things like this that make each individual's perception fluctuate.

The real question, I think, is how much of your life is actually shaped by outside stimuli, and how much of your thinking you actually do for yourself. When you consider how little of your own thought process is actually your own, 100%, and not the result of the world that surrounds you, things become very interesting.

When it comes right down to splitting hairs, I don't believe that there is /technically/ a "free will." There is only going with the norm, or against it, all the while taking in the preconceived and learned notions that you have picked up or been taught or witnessed during your life - All thoughts and considerations made by others before or around you.

(I believe this is some sort of perpetual circle, like the chicken and the egg, because once this point is made, you have to wonder who, then, /did/ have original thought? On a side note, I'm Atheist, so I don't consider 'God' to be an honest answer.)

 

[Woodsey]

Of course we have free will.

If I wanted to right now, I could shit in a plastic bag and post it through my neighbour's door. Outside influence tells me that this is a bad thing, but that doesn't mean I couldn't do if I actually wanted.

And apologies to anyone that sincerely believes in this, but fate/destiny are bullshit.

 

[Redingold]

I'll say no, since our brains run on the laws of the universe and the laws of the universe are deterministic on a macroscopic scale, and the uncertainty principle doesn't count as an explanation of free will (because random unpredictability is not the same as choosing between clear alternatives).

 

[GundamSentinel]

Free will is an illusion (sorry, I'm a hopeless determinist). Our responses (everything we do) are shaped by inside and outside influences. Our outside influences consist of everything out body senses. Our inside influences consist of our mental reactions to that sensory input. Those reactions are shaped by our upbringing, both nature (our genes) and nurture (our past experiences).

Free will is an almost perfect illusion, and I would say it's practically impossible to live without acknowledging that illusion, but still we are all hopeless automatons reacting to our environment. And I like it that way.

 

[Jezzeh]

Of course we have free will.

If I wanted to right now, I could shit in a plastic bag and post it through my neighbour's door. Outside influence tells me that this is a bad thing, but that doesn't mean I couldn't do if I actually wanted.

And apologies to anyone that sincerely believes in this, but fate/destiny are bullshit.

I'm not really looking at it in terms of "fate/destiny" - More the simple fact that an overwhelming amount of your life is shaped and based solely on what others have done before/around/for you. There are few things that you consider or do for yourself that someone else hasn't done before your or considered doing or toyed around with. To be fair, I don't believe in fate or destiny either...

 

[Jezzeh]

Free will is an illusion (sorry, I'm a hopeless determinist). Our responses (everything we do) are shaped by inside and outside influences. Our outside influences consist of everything out body senses. Our inside influences consist of our mental reactions to that sensory input. Those reactions are shaped by our upbringing, both nature (our genes) and nurture (our past experiences).

Free will is an almost perfect illusion, and I would say it's practically impossible to live without acknowledging that illusion, but still we are all hopeless automatons reacting to our environment. And I like it that way.

I believe you've worded our similar reasoning far better than I did. ^^

 

[Woodsey]

Of course we have free will.

If I wanted to right now, I could shit in a plastic bag and post it through my neighbour's door. Outside influence tells me that this is a bad thing, but that doesn't mean I couldn't do if I actually wanted.

And apologies to anyone that sincerely believes in this, but fate/destiny are bullshit.

I'm not really looking at it in terms of "fate/destiny" - More the simple fact that an overwhelming amount of your life is shaped and based solely on what others have done before/around/for you. There are few things that you consider or do for yourself that someone else hasn't done before your or considered doing or toyed around with. To be fair, I don't believe in fate or destiny either...

That doesn't mean you don't have free will to go out and do those things. Free will is the point at which you make the decision to do or not do something.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Yes, we have free will, although whether we choose to use it is another matter. While it's true that that we are constantly influenced by outside forces and our past experiences we do not need any outside force in order to make decisions or to take action, contrast that with say a computer that cannot and will not do anything until it receives instructions to do so from a user.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

The degrees of understanding (from least to greatest)

I believe that I have free will.
I doubt that I have free will.
I know that I have free will.

You fall in the middle OP. You're doubting free will because you know that our thoughts and desires are shaped by forces beyond our control. I know that this truth doesn't matter, because free will is the ability to do what you want. Why you want to do something is irrelevant.

 

[Serenegoose]

Oh god not this bullshit again.

Look, just because we are the product of our experiences DOES NOT mean we do not have free will.

You can still decide and choose, you always have and that is also what has shaped you into what you are today.

Flawless victory.

 

[KindOfnElf]

I agree with OP (if I understood you correctly).

There are too many "accidents", or coincidences if you prefer in life. Even when this "illusion" of free will occurs, like when you have to make a conscious choice about something, it makes you wonder WHY are you choosing the exact thing and not the opposite. The deeper you dig, the complexed it gets.
Overall my personal experience says no to this question and that is what I claim, there is no free will. Just because one doesn't know it or haven't experienced it doesn't means it can't be true. It's not about cause and effect (even though it is a part of it), but in the bigger picture thinking that life forms are just random, doesn't fit.

EDIT: Have you ever wondered how does one breathe? Think about it.

 

[Jezzeh]

Of course we have free will.

If I wanted to right now, I could shit in a plastic bag and post it through my neighbour's door. Outside influence tells me that this is a bad thing, but that doesn't mean I couldn't do if I actually wanted.

And apologies to anyone that sincerely believes in this, but fate/destiny are bullshit.

I'm not really looking at it in terms of "fate/destiny" - More the simple fact that an overwhelming amount of your life is shaped and based solely on what others have done before/around/for you. There are few things that you consider or do for yourself that someone else hasn't done before your or considered doing or toyed around with. To be fair, I don't believe in fate or destiny either...

That doesn't mean you don't have free will to go out and do those things. Free will is the point at which you make the decision to do or not do something.

See, this kinda goes back to what I'd originally posted about what one considers to be free will. I don't really view it that way, because your decision whether or not to do whatever it is in question is shaped by what has already been thought/said/done by others. I see it as something of a never-ending cycle. I do understand and respect your opinion. I just view it a little bit differently.

 

[Daden]

Of course we have free will.

If I wanted to right now, I could shit in a plastic bag and post it through my neighbour's door. Outside influence tells me that this is a bad thing, but that doesn't mean I couldn't do if I actually wanted.

And apologies to anyone that sincerely believes in this, but fate/destiny are bullshit.

I'm not really looking at it in terms of "fate/destiny" - More the simple fact that an overwhelming amount of your life is shaped and based solely on what others have done before/around/for you. There are few things that you consider or do for yourself that someone else hasn't done before your or considered doing or toyed around with. To be fair, I don't believe in fate or destiny either...

That doesn't mean you don't have free will to go out and do those things. Free will is the point at which you make the decision to do or not do something.

But where does this decision come from? A vacuum?

Let me pose you this: If a brain injured person behaves totally differently than they did before their accident, have they lost their free will? They seem to be at the mercy of their brain tissue's ability to process information, but they are still making decisions.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Look at it this way, nobody or nothing told you to create this thread, did they? You decided to create it of your own volition, yes? So is that not free will?

 

[Jezzeh]

-

 

[Blue_vision]

Oh god not this bullshit again.

Look, just because we are the product of our experiences DOES NOT mean we do not have free will.

You can still decide and choose, you always have and that is also what has shaped you into what you are today.

This.
But obviously you can't (physically) rocket off into space by sheer epic willpower and disco moves. You're constrained in any circumstance, but you always have a choice of what to do.

But I will say that the future isn't some kind of big cloud of unknown; the future is certain, it's just that nobody knows what that future is, and are free to make whatever decisions they want because that's what they're supposed to do. So... STOP BEING SHEEP, PEOPLE!