Is gaming culture really ready for games to be considered art.

[antipope]

It has occurred to me in recent months that the biggest barrier to video games being viewed as art is the current state of gamer culture. Now I am in no way knocking game culture I am a gamer and I love games and the people who play them. What I saying is that the culture has developed to be one of fandom rather then genuine artistic appreciation. Video games are in many ways the grand meeting points between all arts, They exist as a combination of music and paintings, visual story telling and improvisational theatre. When we review and talk about them in the form of there mechanics not there innate beauty. Yet we demand that it be seen as art while not really seeing them as art.

Some of this is on the developers and professional side, for instance a common defense of Mass Effect 3 was that it was art. Well yes but that doesn't mean that its not bad art. Recognizing that something has artistic merit dose not make it immune to critics if anything it makes it more open. Nor does it excuse lying to your customers, or mean that changing it would some how destroy the artistic merit other wise all games would cease to be art the minute the expansion pack came out or dlc, but I digress.

In short if we truly want games to be scene as art we must look beyond the mechanics and graphics and discuss them in terms of there beauty as a hole. I believe that should we do this as community not only will are games be viewed as art but that we will force the companies to make games with better writing, better use of visuals and more beautiful experiences as a hole.

Any thoughts?

 

[Terminate421]

Yes.

This question has been answered with stuff like this (Halo: Reach):

Spoiler

For future reference you are not the first to ask the question. It's been answered before.

 

[Vault101]

does it make differece?

some poeple think it is

some think it isnt

it doesnt change anything

 

[antipope]

Not really sure how that answer the question. Or is even really relevant, we are talking about the gaming culture not the games themselves. Halo reach may be a fine game and beautiful peace of art dose not it dose not mean the culture is ready to discuss it as such. It is my view that the current gamer culture is itself the barrier not the games.

 

[antipope]

I think it could make a huge difference in the quality of a lot of games if we held them to an artistic standard of beauty.

 

[AngleWyrm]

Who exactly is this "Gaming Culture" you speak of?
Is it the press that reviews games as a job, and wants them to be 4-hour movies they can just get through in an evening?
Is it those mythical Casual Gamers out there somewhere that might spend millions on games?
Is it people who actually buy and play video games a lot?

And what do you mean by "art"?
Do you mean "This is MY show, and you are the audience"?
Do you mean "I'm tired of thinking, just entertain me"?

 

[Reven]

I think that this issue would not only affects gamers, but other forms of media (such as movies). I do feel that if we held games on a standard of art and judged them as such, that there would be a huge impact, but so would movies. Now movies an be considered as art by most people (see Citizen Kane.) I feel that if gamers took such a view on games, it would certainly make an impact on the developers. But with regards to others viewing games as art, i think regardless of how artful games might get, it will still take a long time due to the stigma against them.

 

[antipope]

Who exactly is this "Gaming Culture" you speak of?
Is it the press that reviews games as a job, and wants them to be 4-hour movies they can just get through in an evening?
Is it those mythical Casual Gamers out there somewhere that might spend millions on games?
Is it people who actually buy and play video games a lot?

And what do you mean by "art"?
Do you mean "This is MY show, and you are the audience"?
Do you mean "I'm tired of thinking, just entertain me"?

They are all the gaming culture.

I don't think it is fare to say all reviewers want is to get through a game swiftly, and any that do are are contributing to the very problem I am suggesting.

As to the art question neither. What I mean is something that has true artistic merit, that is a thing of beauty that contributes to the culture as a hole rather then being a few moments entertainment. Something that stays with you and makes you think.

 

[antipope]

I fully agree with Reven. Except I am not really worried about the culture as a hole if we can change our internal conversations the culture will change eventually. Nor I am not jumping down and saying take my hobby seriously because its art. What I am saying is that if developers and gamers want this to be considered art they have to hold games to a higher standard. I think we should all want that regardless of are personal opinions on games as art since it should make for better games.

 

[DeathSwitch109]

We're not entirely there yet but we have the right pieces to validate games as art. There's so much potential to be had within this medium and a new generation of gaming is upon us.

Here are a few examples that stand out to me when people refer to games as art:

-Shadow of the Colossus
-Halo Reach: Mission 11 (as posted above)
-The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
-The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
-Uncharted 2 & 3
-Okami
-The Mass Effect series (story and characters, not including the ending)
-MineCraft (user created content)
-Braid
-Little Big Planet (user created content)
-Silent Hill 2 (atmosphere, setting)
-Portal 1 & 2
-Half Life 2
-Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

 

[Bertylicious]

Games are art bercause almost everything can be categorised as art, football for instance, but we shouldn't worry about it so much. This whole line of discussion is as tiresome as a teenager fretting about getting a girlfriend.

 

[OldDirtyCrusty]

As long as these threads show up games won`t be considered art, at least not by persons asking this question. The moment the question "Is this art?" pops up in your head is the moment it isn`t art anymore (to you). Like the above poster said everything is art and there will be always people who will questioning this.

 

[AndrewF022]

Can't we just call it 'Artistic Entertainment' and be done with it?

Not quite the Mona Lisa, not quite flinging dog poop over the neighbors fence (preferably into their pool).. but somewhere in between.

 

[Palademon]

Traditional art is made of fandom, particularly aimed at the creator.

People buy art by famous people.

 

[malestrithe]

It can be art, but that label tends to be a marketing ploy and nothing else. It gets you to buy some games that you would not notice sooner.

 

[lord.jeff]

Aren't games already art as far as most definitions go as well as legally [link]http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-27/tech/supreme.court.video.game.art_1_sale-of-violent-video-video-games-hansel-and-gretel?_s=PM:TECH[/link] so yeah I think gamers can handle games being art.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

No.

If a game came out that was a legitimate work of art, exploring the tenuous link between sexuality and violence, or the metaphysical implications of life after death, in a way that didn't involve large breasts and larger guns than one thing and one thing only would happen. The majority of the gaming community would throw up their hands, demand a new ending, review bomb the game and claim that they're doing it in the name of getting what they deserve when they pay for a product, not asshattery.

I used to argue for games as art, nowadays I think that the majority of gamers are either actual children, and thus unable to get it, or manchildren, and the few who aren't don't get involved in the debate at all.

 

[Daveman]

Just because some people, even if they are a majority, don't appreciate something as art doesn't mean that thing isn't art.

Fandom doesn't limit the medium.

Take a song of some sort.

People can say they like the kickass guitar, they'd rather there was a sweeet bass riff in there or even they like the way the singer looks. Hell, they can demand a dubstep remix. This is fandom.

Does it take anything away from the music? No. It's still art.