Is ganking girl gamers a bad thing?

[BloatedGuppy]

Not quite. I likened her to a whore because she's offering her body as a service for money.

Did I miss something? Did the "sexy streamers" also sell sexual services for money? Because sitting in front of a camera or calling attention to your physical attributes in return for money does not really fall under the dictionary or colloquial definition of "whore". It's the basis of the entire modelling industry, for one, and a not insubstantial portion of the entertainment industry. I suppose it's possible you're indulging in a highly personal and subjective interpretation of the word, and perhaps fantasizing about a bygone era in which women wore high necked collars and stayed chaste until marriage...but you really need to be instructive about your fanciful definitions if you expect people to follow your train of thought.

My logic for it being okay to gank her was because she was broadcasting her in game position openly with no escort of any kind while in contested territory on a PvP server. I'd gank her too, regardless of whether she was a male or not if I was bored enough. All is fair on a PvP server.

It's a sideline topic, but this is more or less why PvP servers have just been garbage for a long time now. And I say this as a guy who happily engaged in PvP all the way back to the UO days, when dying meant losing everything you were carrying. Hell, I spent a couple of years in WoW self-flagging on non-PvP servers just to incite some conflict. I LOVE PvP. But "ganking" kind of ruins things, in all honesty. The gank is a fundamentally one-sided encounter, and 99% of all PvP conflict on PvP servers is as ganker or gankee. Either fights you won without any real effort, or fights you lost without any real chance. While it did create a certain tension (that slowly dimmed away as the games evolved and there were no real consequences for getting ganked other than temporary inconvenience), the amount of actual quality PvP withered away to nothing. Want a good, even fight? Better not look for it on a fucking PvP server.

No. No, it is not. Especially not on a Player Vs. Player Server, where Player Vs. Player interactions are encouraged.

And for that reason yeah, it kind of is. You're correct though, the current design of PvP servers just encourages one sided encounters. Which makes for an absolutely pathetic game play experience, but whaddaya gonna do. I don't expect the players to solve that dilemma, that's on the designers to figure out.

But for that to happen, that also requires both sides not making a big deal out of gender. Both sides, not just the guys. If a girl is constantly bringing up the fact she is a girl, then she is just making herself stand out.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here, Legion. I could mention that I'm a guy 500 times during an online session, and nothing would be said about it. No one would accuse me of "attention whoring", no one would think I was pushing an agenda. Hell, I could probably launch into soliloquies about the wonder that is my penis and get no more than a few raised eyebrows. But if a GIRL does it, well, there's clearly something foul afoot. She's trying to use her femininity to bewitch all the nerds!

This whole "they're calling attention to themselves" routine is wildly disingenuous, and...frankly...a way to white wash a phobic reaction. That "others" are allowed to integrate into "normal" social interactions so long as they don't call any attention to themselves, or engage in any unusual behaviors that might underscore how different they are.

If gender is not important, then it shouldn't need to be constantly mentioned, as that is just creating a needless barrier that otherwise would not exist. It's basically saying "I am different from you, and I want you to notice that."

I've been playing MMOs since the late 90's, and I've only ever seen "different" castigated in two different scenarios...

1. If the different person is a girl.
2. If the different person is a male homosexual.

All other forms of difference, be it race, nationality, belief, age...hell, even mental capacity...was embraced with warm tolerance. Girls? Clearly up to something, using their tits as weapons. Homosexuals? Well, they just make everyone uncomfortable, don't they? Except the lesbians. They're cool.

Now this is anecdotal evidence and therefore not incredibly compelling to anyone, but if you honestly believe the root of this problem lies with girls wanting to be recognized as girls and not with a certain cross section of men who find women in their play spaces absolutely terrifying, then we are at divide in opinion that is unlikely to ever be crossed.

It happens ALL the time.

Yep, it happens all the time because just mentioning that you're female, or having the temerity to have a female voice on vent, or to post a picture of yourself in which you had the audacity to look attractive, is enough to have a statistically significant portion of your male fellows either jam you on a pedestal or aggressively tear you down. You've used the word bimbo already. I've already responded to someone using "whore". I'm sure if we wait a page we'll work our way up to "****" or something equally delightful. What kind of words have we used to describe the guys who participate in and are often the actual instigators of the drama? You know, because a fucking GIRL wandered into their club house?

Yeah. I'm obviously just searching them out. Right there on LoL's main page for Twitch. I'm sure that 26 second video with the second highest views from this week totally has everything to do with her playing ability. Definitely. That's totally it.

Who CARES, Frostbite? Don't like it? Don't watch it. Surely you've encountered things in your life before you didn't care for, and didn't feel the need to go on a crusade about it. "Larry the Cable Guy" has made millions hooting into microphones and slapping his armpits. People all over the world will find opportunities to make a buck appealing to people who do not share your tastes. It's something you're just going to need to cope with.

 

[Zeckt]

BloatedGuppy, you are impossible to discuss anything with as you are too argumentive. I specifically singled out drama queens in my post, yet you have to go and warp everything to the worst possible thing imaginable. How can someone even hold a conversation with you if that's the way you debate with people?

I said it before and I will say it again as you ENTIRELY missed my point. I have ZERO issue's with girls who simply play the game, I have issues with girls that create drama where there ARE none!

but no, go ahead and warp my words to make me appear to be some sort of villain to white knight against rather then talk about the issue I brought up. I'm done with this topic, don't quote me as I will ignore the post. Frankly, I'm leaving insulted and you are now the first person to ever be on my ignore list.

 

[Legion]

*snip*

I was never suggesting that guys who take an issue with girls being online are not the problem.
I was not attributing any blame to the girls who get harassed purely for being noticed as one.
I was not talking about the problem of guys who harass girls at all.
I was not even talking about people who get attention drawn to them just by being themselves.

I am pretty tired of people putting words into my mouth, or implying that I believe things that I absolutely did not say or even remotely suggest, such as this:

but if you honestly believe the root of this problem lies with girls wanting to be recognized as girls and not with a certain cross section of men who find women in their play spaces absolutely terrifying, then we are at divide in opinion that is unlikely to ever be crossed.

Because that has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. Nothing at all.

My point was simple: The more we make gender something important enough to discuss, the longer we are going to be stuck the way things are. Ideally it shouldn't be male gamers and female gamers. Male developers and female developers. Games aimed at men and games aimed at women.

It should be gamers, game developers and games.

I am not suggesting people should keep their gender quiet, I am saying that people who constantly feel the need to bring their gender into everything, even when it has no relevance are preventing this from happening.

*snip*

It seems that I am not the only person who felt that their post was misconstrued.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I am pretty tired of people putting words into my mouth, or implying that I believe things that I absolutely did not say or even remotely suggest.

If a girl is constantly bringing up the fact she is a girl, then she is just making herself stand out. If gender is not important, then it shouldn't need to be constantly mentioned, as that is just creating a needless barrier that otherwise would not exist. It's basically saying "I am different from you, and I want you to notice that."

That's a direct quote. From you. Suggesting that "making yourself stand out" or "basically saying I am different from you" is bad.

It seems that I am not the only person who felt that their post was misconstrued.

Let me make something clear. Clarity of communication is the responsibility of the person speaking, not the person listening. If your suggestion is I have misunderstood you...perhaps in your case because you "worded things horrifically"...then clarify your statement and improve understanding. The solution is not to attack me and suggest I'm "warping" things or "trying to make you look like a villain", as if I had the slightest motivation for doing that. I applaud you, Legion, for at least attempting clarification, even if you're clearly feeling defensive, as opposed to calling me a "white knight" and slamming me into the ignore bucket because I took issue with something you said.

What I hear when you say "Don't make yourself stand out" is very, very different from what you may have intended. I already elucidated why.

If a girl is "constantly bringing up the fact she is a girl", I would view it as a total non event. She's not making herself "stand out", she is simply claiming membership in ~50% of the population. "I am a girl" should not be a contentious statement, nor should it create any barriers.

Now I'm guessing (due to the wounded tone you adopted in this response) that your intention with your comment was not "girls need to keep that shit on the down low!" but rather that e-space should be a genderless utopia where tolerance is achieved through uniformity. We all lack a physical identity, therefore we are all equal. Or something. I'm not sure I agree with that (assuming that IS your point, please don't lash out if it's not, I'm doing my best here). Our cultural upbringing, our sexuality, our gender...it all informs who we are and what we believe. Especially in an MMO, which tends to be a very social space, people are going to constantly self-reference whether they mean to or not. Currently, self-referring if you happen to be a minority (in "game space", that would be any non heterosexual male, really) seems to carry with it the automatic crime of "drama". That is problematic, to say the least.

 

[Phasmal]

Yeah. I'm obviously just searching them out. Right there on LoL's main page for Twitch. I'm sure that 26 second video with the second highest views from this week totally has everything to do with her playing ability. Definitely. That's totally it.

It's not about daring to have tits. It's about streaming, making them the focal point and asking for money while doing it. Do they have every right to do it? Sure. But they have no right to get offended when it's irritating to people like me who don't go to a place like Twitch to get off.

Edit: Because it's kind of hard to read, the title of that video is "I did my make up pretty". Yep. Totally for her playing skill. Definitely belongs there.

AHMAGAAAAAD.

Seriously, dude.
Deal with it.
If I have to deal with mostly having to hide my gender in case some dudebro drops his fucking monocle, you can deal with this.

If you don't go to twitch to get off, don't watch those videos. I don't go to Youtube to watch videos of spiders but they show up in my recommended every now and then without me having to cry about it.

Some people exploit things.

 

[A Weakgeek]

And maybe- just maybe, if guys stopped fetishizing and freaking out about female gamers, those ladies wouldn't be able to `exploit` people in such ways.

Do they though? Do they really? In my experience gamergirls aren't fetishized anymore than "normal girls" in any other situation where they are a minority.

In all honesty, even if eventually the gender divide in games reached 50/50, I can't really see that stuff going away. As sad as it is, mmos and the like provide a "safe way" for shy people, people with low self esteem, or just rude people to voice themselves without any reprocussions. Females would get less attenttion surely, but the interactions with the opposite gender probably woudln't change.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

My point was simple: The more we make gender something important enough to discuss, the longer we are going to be stuck the way things are. Ideally it shouldn't be male gamers and female gamers. Male developers and female developers. Games aimed at men and games aimed at women.

It should be gamers, game developers and games.

I am not suggesting people should keep their gender quiet, I am saying that people who constantly feel the need to bring their gender into everything, even when it has no relevance are preventing this from happening.

gotta agree with this, and i've had this happen IRL multiple times and the person usually gets dirty looks all around or gets shunned for the need to bring up useless or self centering information, it just comes across as obnoxious or purposely putting the attention on yourself.

i'll leave it at that to keep my words from being blown out of proportion.

 

[Chris Tian]

I dont get why this irritates people at all. All i can say to those streaming-girls is: "Good for you"
If I could get payed for playing my favorite game I would do that too. And wouldn't care one bit if its because I'm awesome at this game or because people like some of my bodyparts.

If people get to upset about girls and women who seek attention, especially male attention, its mostly a surefire sign for frustration.

 

[kingthrall]

Really this is one of the most seemly pointless threads ive read. If you get ganged up on a mmorpg why dont you play another game. I mean really the whole point of mmo is to socialise ect. If your not getting proper social interaction then what is the flippin point.

P.S There are games where I get ganged up upon for being the pro player helping establish my new team full of average joes but we persevere though the fact our numbers are greater and that developing better gameplay takes time.

Isnt there like Non-Stalking ways in the game to block players from doing that kind of rubbish. Seriously too many adrenaline 12 year old gamer exp farming, junkies smoking weed on WOW just yet another reason why i never play mmo games.

 

[Frostbite3789]

You know what's bad? Real sexism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22579098

 

[Fidchell Attano]

Back when I played WoW, this was a long ago, we use to like heading into PvP zones like Strangalthorn Vale and have a blast murdering each left and right and getting murdered back. But it seems like - at least from this video and an article from Kotaku, that it is just about as similar as harassment.

0.o

Now if a person does it for the sole purpose because the opposing player is a female. Then that dude has issues. But to call ganking similar to rape... well. I think you're starting to miss the point of video games in general, especially competitive ones.

Now ShrineNI, the guy that made video on how to go around finding gamer girls is an asshole. I got that idea after watching his videos. But then again what he's doing in the end - killing female players - isn't exactly what I call as harassment because EVERYONE does that in WoW to each other all the time. At least they did before the game was turned carebear but I'm not going to talk about that.

Hell, I remember being singled out by certain players in WoW many times when I'd quested in certain areas over a course of a few days. So was I being stalked too? I mean, if you don't like being ganked, games like these have PvE zones where you can't be "harassed" if you feel ganking is harassment.

I don't know, I guess what I'm getting at is is this a case of white knighting where gamers are taking a matter like this way too seriously just because some douchbag likes to single out female players. Or not?

If the guy was singling out female players and sending inappropriate messages to them. That there is definitely harassment by all it's definition. But in a game where players stalk and murder each other all the time, is it wrong to do it then?


http://kotaku.com/5972869/faith-in-humanity-slowly-depleting-this-jerk-and-his-supporters-find-joy-in-harassing-women-gamers

Yes, it is a sickening thing actually. It pretty much flips the bird at diversity and puts up the proverbial "no girls allowed" sign up in WoW, and frankly its just going to perpetuate this image of male gamers that does not need to be animated, yet lives with so much zeal in the minds of Americans.

At what point was the US brought up in this? If you notice, not a single person talking in that video was American. I'm getting rather tired of the US bashing on this website.

OT: If he was going around ganking other people it would be fine, but the fact that he singles out one particular sex to hunt down makes it sexist. He is trying to make it his personal mission to kill females, and I think that takes a rather disturbed individual.

The whole anti-video game agenda is kind of big here in the U.S.

 

[barbzilla]

snip

The whole anti-video game agenda is kind of big here in the U.S.

Yet that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. This isn't about anti-videogame advocacy, it is about one guy (who isn't american) harassing a girl (who isn't american) and making some rather stupid statements about girl gamers in general.

 

[generals3]

AHMAGAAAAAD.

Seriously, dude.
Deal with it.
If I have to deal with mostly having to hide my gender in case some dudebro drops his fucking monocle, you can deal with this.

If you don't go to twitch to get off, don't watch those videos. I don't go to Youtube to watch videos of spiders but they show up in my recommended every now and then without me having to cry about it.

Some people exploit things.

Luckily for this topic ganking is valid gameplay and not being a jerk (some may think it is but it's not an objective statement).

So in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the logic of "Person X is doing something I don't like therefor i shall gank person X".

 

[saruman31]

You mast gank all, no discrimination. Also, why is it some people get genuinely mad at ganking? It is not an "evil" thing no matter how you look at it. It is part of the game if you play on a PvP server. It also makes the grind worth it. There is no point in getting 1337 gear if all you are going to do is sit in towns.

 

[ResonanceSD]

The hell happened to equality? Ganking in Dota 2 is gender-neutral. If it bleeds, we can kill it!

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Ganking idiots who broadcast a livestream of themselves playing an online multiplayer can only be a good thing in my humble opinion.

 

[Vigormortis]

To the matter of whether "ganking" a girl gamer is wrong or not, the answer is "no". When playing a game online everyone should be considered equally. If I'm playing a PvP match, I won't hesitate if I discover the gender of my target. A game's a game.

However, what the pathetic little shit in the video was doing is pure misogynistic harassment. The bastard not only sought out and harassed a fellow gamer (not his only time either), simply because she was female, but he and his pathetic cronies did it for days. They actually followed this girl, and others it seems, harassing them like that every time they logged on.

Seriously? Fuck that guy. Jesus Christ. And not even just because he's only doing it to women. He'd seem just as pathetic to me if he'd only been doing it to male gamers.