Is it discrimination to treat Handicapped people better than the rest of us?

[krazykidd]

Not being funny but I have a friend who is disabled, he has it much worse off than other people to get in and out of places and has to rely on people to take him places and suchlike. Its just kindness and courtesy to make life easier for people who have difficulties. His day to day life is much harder than 'normal' people, why the hell shouldn't we try and make things a bit more pleasant for him?

And btw if you had cancer you would look like crap too...>_>

Yeah, aren't they already disadvantaged enough with out privileged dickheads deciding they don't deserve it because they want to park in the good spaces. Discrimination is associated with loads of negative connotations whereas the facilities put in place for the disabled are there to ease their difficulty.

If someone's paralyzed from the waist down do you really think it's discrimination against people who can walk to assign them two or three parking spaces close to the entrance of a shop? Don't put it under the guise of social equality.


Christ, some of the people on this site. You have legs, fucking walk. First women, then homosexuals and now people who're suffering from cancer or another disability? How can you be so self-absorbed that you can't understand why some groups would need some things in society to specifically help them and not the broader demographic? My mind boggles. I'm not even singling out the OP, I wish I could, but it's so common on this forum it's ridiculous. I hope you never have to face real discrimination or hardship caused by ill-health because I don't think you'd be able to cope with it at all.

EDIT:

Snip

I would hug you if I could.

Calm down there buddy , I never said i didn't understand it ( though EVERYBODY here assumed that ) . I understand that handicap parking is necessary. I was just pointing out that it is a forme of discrimination . The good kind mind you , but a lot of people found the need to explain that handicapped parking is usefull ( i never actually said the oposite ).

But that wasn't my question , i was actually trying to get people to think . Because people always use discrimination in a negative way , when , in fact, it can be positive in some cases. Discrimination by definition is treating a group of people differently , be it good or bad. But most people do not realise this. They say discrimination is always bad, which , by my example isn't true. ( not that i put any of this in my original posts , i wanted to see if people could pick up on that on their own. )

 

[Colour Scientist]

Calm down there buddy , I never said i didn't understand it ( though EVERYBODY here assumed that ) . I understand that handicap parking is necessary. I was just pointing out that it is a forme of discrimination . The good kind mind you , but a lot of people found the need to explain that handicapped parking is usefull ( i never actually said the oposite ).

But that wasn't my question , i was actually trying to get people to think . Because people always use discrimination in a negative way , when , in fact, it can be positive in some cases. Discrimination by definition is treating a group of people differently , be it good or bad. But most people do not realise this. They say discrimination is always bad, which , by my example isn't true. ( not that i put any of this in my original posts , i wanted to see if people could pick up on that on their own. )

Well, what you actually said in the original post as your conclusion was:

I will end this post stating that , i am pro-equality for everybody , including people with handicaps, but to achieve equality wouldn't we then need to treat everyone as equals, and not treat one group differently for whatever reason ?

By that statement, you mean that people with disabilities would need to be treated in the same manner as a completely healthy member of society, which they are not. In doing so they would need to be stripped of any of the priviledges they recieve, including parking, disability benefit, carers etc...
The reason I got so worked up about this is because you also said in your post that it bothers you because you can't laugh at those less fortunate than you. I can't really take you seriously after that, no matter how you try to dress it up.

 

[Oly J]

speaking as a handicapped person, there is a difference between help and an unfair advantage, but I don't even like accepting help, but in answer to your question, yes I beleive to treat someone in a situation such as mine

Before i begin , i will state that i know the politically correct thing to say is no.

That being said, isn't treating someone with a physical and/or mental hadicap better than "normal" ( i know i might get some shit for saying normal, sorry for the lack of another word in advance ) people discrimination ? Isn't discrimination by definition treating a group of people differently because of "x" reasons?

I'll give you an example. Handicap parking. Handicap parking is a parking spot that can only be used by people with a handicap. Thus discriminating towards people who DO NOT have a handicap , because we cannot park there.

Another example. If i looked at a random person , and laughed at them because i thought they looked funny , it would be okay ( okay in the sense that although it would be mean , people wouldn't throw a FIT over it ) . But if it was to laugh at a random person that had a mental handicap , well then i would be looked down upon by everyone and be a heartless bastard. Meaning i could laugh at a "normal" ( sorry again for this term no mean to offend ) person , but not a handicapped person. Thus putting the handicapped person on a sort a social pedestal, in other words, they are higher up on the social ladder ( almost like better people that shouldn't be messed with )

This , in my opinion is discrimination , we treat one group of people ( the handicaps ) better than the rest of Us. Handicaps are like in a "no touch" zone, while everyone else is fair game.

I'll tell you what lead me to this thought. My girlfriend is watching tv in the living room . I enter the living room , look at the tv, and look at the girl on the show. I tell my girlfriend that the girl is ugly, to which she replies, "she has cancer"( i did not know this prior to her telling me this ). I said so what? Her having cancer does not make her any prettier , i don't discriminate. Cancer or not she's ugly. Does her having cancer make her prettier ? To which my girlfriend replies " well no i guess not, but she has cancer so it's not right to say she's ugly ".

I will end this post stating that , i am pro-equality for everybody , including people with handicaps, but to achieve equality wouldn't we then need to treat everyone as equals, and not treat one group differently for whatever reason ?

What do you escapists think?

speaking as a handicapped person, there is a difference between help and an unfair advantage, but I don't even like accepting help, but in answer to your question, yes I beleive to treat someone in a situation such as mine better than your average joe is discrimination, and also I'm a struggling "stand-up" (kind of) comic so it opens doors for me being able to get away with making fun of handicapped people because I am one,

example, if I was struggling to push my chair up a steep slope of some kind and someone offered help, that's fine, but if I applied for a job. and was chosen over someone just as qualified as me or a little more so just because in england the government pay people to employ the disabled, that's discrimination, that said I won't complain if it comes to that, I'd rather be fully ambulatory and treated the same but since that's not an option I'll take any advantage I can get

 

[Mosesj]

Here's the thing I have Multiple Sclerosis among other things and much of the time I run out of energy real quick and when I do I'm in an catastrophic amount of pain and every little activity takes away from me in some way, no matter what it is. Just walking through the store can put me down for several days, some things are really a necessity just to make it through he day. really just read this: http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/

My mom has ms too, she can't actually go to the store anymore, so her old neighbors and friends help her out. Though that is discrimation that they're doing grocery work for her (she pays them) it's still neccesary

 

[krazykidd]

To OP: the problem is that you are a terrible person. You are unkind, selfish and very rude.

It's perfectly reasonable to make parking spots to handicapped people if we want them to take part in society. They need more room to get in an out of a care usually. So stop being a privileged asshole and use one of the 500 other spots in the lot.

As for not being allowed to laugh at them. That's just common courtesy. As for calling a girl with cancer ugly? Way to stay classy!

Please point out where i said it's unreasonable to make parking spots for the handicapped.

That said , discrimination is treating a group of people differently ( be it good or bad , justified or unjustified) . Please don't put words in my mouth .

PS: yes i am a terrible person , so what?

 

[Jamous]

Yes, by definition it is discrimination. It's called positive discrimination; noun
(in the context of the allocation of resources or employment) the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously.

 

[bobmus]

It's called positive discrimination. It's designed to even out the overall balance of things, so life is as equal for everyone as possible - you can't take the lift, but they couldn't take the stairs if they wanted to.
However, when it comes to employment I think it is dangerous either way, but by enforcing positive discrimination we do help out the disabled by preventing negative discrimination.

Chill out dude, disabled parking spaces might save you like a minute of time, but really, were you gonna do anything spectacular with that minute anyway?

 

[targren]

By definition, yes, it's discrimination.

So is choosing a coffee milkshake over a chocolate one.

Contrary to the equivocation so often practiced by simpletons, however, that does not mean it's wrong at all.

 

[Twilight_guy]

The reason for this discrimination is that one group of people have a disadvantage (such as not being able to walk) and thus we give them some means to try and compensating for this (such as letting them park closer so or installing ramps). It's less about discriminating against you and more about trying to provide an advantage for someone else that you can't have because you don't need it and someone else does. Groups are specifically devoting resources to target people who have a disadvantage rather then the general public. If you think its unfair then either move someplace where the government doesn't care and the disadvantaged fall behind or find other ways to compensate or break both your legs so you can park in the handicap spot. I'm all for you injuring yourself (in a non-permanent way) so you can experience what its like and learn to appreciate facilities devoted to the handicapped more.

 

[cookyy2k]

Yes, by definition it is discrimination. It's called positive discrimination; noun
(in the context of the allocation of resources or employment) the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously.

Therefore disabled parking, by your own definition, is not discrimination. It is not awarded to everyone with a disability, it is not awarded to everyone in the "group". It has to be independently applied for and weighed up on a case by case basis. Being disabled simply does not automatically grant you the permit.

 

[Avistew]

The store's not going to have anything they can do with the other shoe unless they find a guy with the other foot missing who happens to have the same size and wants the same style. It only makes sense for them not to sell a single shoe.

And for the movie, that isn't discrimination by any means. People are not paying for a certain amount of enjoyment from the movie. Blind people fill the exact same amount of seats as people with sight so it only makes sense they pay the same. It doesn't cost the theater any less to seat a blind person.

My point was that simply because they're handicapped, they get less out of things while spending just as much. I don't think many people would be willing to have to wear something over their eyes for a whole movie if it meant they could cut in line. It's not like people with handicaps are treated better, I still wouldn't trade places, is my point. I find it weird to call it discrimination when it doesn't even make up for what they have to go through in everyday life. The balance is still tipped in our favour.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Before i begin , i will state that i know the politically correct thing to say is no.

That being said, isn't treating someone with a physical and/or mental hadicap better than "normal" ( i know i might get some shit for saying normal, sorry for the lack of another word in advance ) people discrimination ? Isn't discrimination by definition treating a group of people differently because of "x" reasons?

I'll give you an example. Handicap parking. Handicap parking is a parking spot that can only be used by people with a handicap. Thus discriminating towards people who DO NOT have a handicap , because we cannot park there.

Another example. If i looked at a random person , and laughed at them because i thought they looked funny , it would be okay ( okay in the sense that although it would be mean , people wouldn't throw a FIT over it ) . But if it was to laugh at a random person that had a mental handicap , well then i would be looked down upon by everyone and be a heartless bastard. Meaning i could laugh at a "normal" ( sorry again for this term no mean to offend ) person , but not a handicapped person. Thus putting the handicapped person on a sort a social pedestal, in other words, they are higher up on the social ladder ( almost like better people that shouldn't be messed with )

This , in my opinion is discrimination , we treat one group of people ( the handicaps ) better than the rest of Us. Handicaps are like in a "no touch" zone, while everyone else is fair game.

I'll tell you what lead me to this thought. My girlfriend is watching tv in the living room . I enter the living room , look at the tv, and look at the girl on the show. I tell my girlfriend that the girl is ugly, to which she replies, "she has cancer"( i did not know this prior to her telling me this ). I said so what? Her having cancer does not make her any prettier , i don't discriminate. Cancer or not she's ugly. Does her having cancer make her prettier ? To which my girlfriend replies " well no i guess not, but she has cancer so it's not right to say she's ugly ".

I will end this post stating that , i am pro-equality for everybody , including people with handicaps, but to achieve equality wouldn't we then need to treat everyone as equals, and not treat one group differently for whatever reason ?

What do you escapists think?

OK, I think you're getting a few things mixed up here, so let's see if we can put that right.

1. Is it discrimination to treat them better than others? Yes. It is. It's called positive discrimination, but it's still discrimination.

2. Is this a bad thing? No. This 'discrimination' exists because these people are inherently severely disadvantaged compared to others. They need all this special treatment just to stand a chance of being able to do what others take for granted.

So, to move to your closing statement...

Equality is an awkward thing. If you treat certain people as actual equals with you, when clearly their inherent situation means they are not, what you are really suggesting is that their inability to do what you take for granted should be ignored.

You aren't advocating equality, you are merely reinforcing the inherent inequality in a situation neither can control. You are in effect placing yourself above them, by the simple virtue that you are suggesting giving them any kind of assistance with their problems is wrong.

That's not equality, that's you having an inherent advantage over others and then claiming the 'special treatment' they get to elevate them approximately to your level is wrong.

true equality, as in 'treating everyone the same', would be a disaster, to be honest. Because people have different needs, and pretending everyone will be fine if you treat them the same is kind of naive.

What is generally meant by equality though, is the idea that everyone is getting fair treatment in accordance with their needs and circumstances, and not being unfairly disadvantaged by circumstances which are probably beyond their control.

 

[Jamous]

Yes, by definition it is discrimination. It's called positive discrimination; noun
(in the context of the allocation of resources or employment) the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously.

Therefore disabled parking, by your own definition, is not discrimination. It is not awarded to everyone with a disability, it is not awarded to everyone in the "group". It has to be independently applied for and weighed up on a case by case basis. Being disabled simply does not automatically grant you the permit.

Sounds about right; although I'd still call it positive discrimination, maybe in a slightly different sense though. I don't think it's that big a deal really; just common sense. People with mobility difficulties should be able to park closer because they can't walk as far (if at all).

 

[similar.squirrel]

The idea is to treat them in a way that gives them the same opportunities as an able-bodied individual. It takes more effort to accommodate that, but it shouldn't be confused with preferential treatment.

 

[BlueMage]

If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

Why? Sure, it sucks, but no more so than being born a ginger, or in the ghetto. Why should you receive special treatment because of a twist of fate?

Because people can get out of the ghetto and dye their hair. People without the use of their legs can't get out of the chair.

Edit: Also, how the hell is being born a ginger even in the same sentence as being born in the ghetto? I get it, gingers have no soul. Hardyharhar. *Sigh* Can you please stop copying South Park. That joke wasn't funny to begin with and people have used it to death.

No, I'm pretty sure gingers were soulless before South Park made mention of that fact. Just sayin'.

Incidentally, I notice no-one's making mention of external augmentation, ie, exo-skeletons for locomotion. It's no longer the case that someone born without the ability to walk will never walk. What a wonderful age we live in!

If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

Why? Sure, it sucks, but no more so than being born a ginger, or in the ghetto. Why should you receive special treatment because of a twist of fate?

Really, ginger people somehow have no means of locomotion? No way to go to work? To go shopping? To go to school and get an education? they are forced to crawl everywhere and ultimately cut off from integrating with society? Because that's the situation if you can't use your legs to walk either due to amputation, paralysis or simply they are too badly damaged from an injury.

We do the tiny extra effort to accommodate for those in wheelchairs because we aren't just a bunch of savage animals! We are part of a society who help each other for the greater good, because even if they can't use their legs they still have their hands.

Hell, you saying they should have kicked out Steven Hawking from University?

Because you can't teach a class on advanced theoretical astrophysics unless you have fully functioning quadriceps[/sarcasm]

Why do we put stairs outside buildings? Why not a sheer brick wall and tell people to find a grappling hook to get up to higher levels. Well because a lot of people aren't going to find a rope and be able to pull themselves up. So stairs are put there. But what if you have something wheeled? It may be yourself in a wheelchair, or it may be a trolley full of equipment, either way an elevator or ramp would be a pretty important thing to include.

You know what I think your problem is: you don't like the idea that extra money would be spent on someone who will ultimately end up a competitor to you in education, employment and partnership. And that's just selfishness on our part.

Because your school didn't put steps up to the entrance JUST FOR YOU, they put them there for everyone who's capable of getting the grades. That's why they put a ramp along side those steps.

Given that I'm an engineer-turned-manager and in a long-term, stable relationship, I seriously doubt your little quip about my "problem" holds true. But I'll indulge you.

First of all, that someone has been harmed, is not as fit, or however else you care to phrase it, is not, in and of itself, a reason that they should be granted special treatment.

Having not read the last page, I can't tell if my other friend has yet responded to my question about ADD/ADHD being a disability, but trust me, if you start going on that a disability, any disability, is an automatic entitlement to special treatment, I'll demand the works for my disability, thank you very much. A disability I've been diagnosed with since age 4, has had a measurable impact on my quality of life, and has hindered my capacity to integrate with society.

So, care to play it that way friend?

Also, of course I'm selfish - any rational person is. How much that selfishness shows in typical interactions, or how much it limits the willingness to be altruistic towards others, that's a different story.

 

[Cazza]

If your in a video game with a friend new at the game/gaming you go easy, join up, handicap your self to make it fair. That isn't discrimation. So neither is it for handicapped people. You only go full out if your an arse.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

Why? Sure, it sucks, but no more so than being born a ginger, or in the ghetto. Why should you receive special treatment because of a twist of fate?

Because people can get out of the ghetto and dye their hair. People without the use of their legs can't get out of the chair.

Edit: Also, how the hell is being born a ginger even in the same sentence as being born in the ghetto? I get it, gingers have no soul. Hardyharhar. *Sigh* Can you please stop copying South Park. That joke wasn't funny to begin with and people have used it to death.

No, I'm pretty sure gingers were soulless before South Park made mention of that fact. Just sayin'.

Incidentally, I notice no-one's making mention of external augmentation, ie, exo-skeletons for locomotion. It's no longer the case that someone born without the ability to walk will never walk. What a wonderful age we live in!

You're right, we do have some things like that in today's age. Problem is that they're very expensive and still don't have the same feel or look as normal legs. Not to mention that they're severe problems with them. Some of the largest being severe power supply problems and material problems. And even then, what do you do with a mentally disabled person? They count as Handicapped too ya know.