Is it possible to have an in-game, in-theme DRM?

[olicon]

Most of us don't quite like DRM, especially ones that puts a hard expiry date on our games. I just whipped out an old copy (even if I have never played it before) of NWN2, and found out that the auto update function couldn't get to half of its update servers anymore. This freaks the heck out of me and really brought reality home--NWN2 is one of those classics that I was sure WILL last forever. It was even re-released as a special edition last year (which is the copy that I bought), and yet half of the update servers are already gone.

So I got to thinking--can't we just have a DRM system that works WITH the game instead of detract from it? I can't quite imagine one myself, but I figured there must be some ways to do it. Any ideas?
-----------edit--------
The name of the game here is to build the DRM into the games themselves and avoid using a server-based DRM. I'm finding some very interesting ways that older games achieved this from all the replies. It's rather intriguing.

 

[Katana314]

What some people have done is something integrated into the gameplay, that isn't really hard to crack but hard to notice immediately by pirates. For instance, in Batman: Arkham Asylum, you are deprived of your gliding ability, which is necessary to get past 58% of the game.

What some people do is just turn off DRM for games after so many years, since all the big losses will have already happened by then.

 

[Vault101]

Most of us don't quite like DRM, especially ones that puts a hard expiry date on our games. I just whipped out an old copy (even if I have never played it before) of NWN2, and found out that the auto update function couldn't get to half of its update servers anymore. This freaks the heck out of me and really brought reality home--NWN2 is one of those classics that I was sure WILL last forever. It was even re-released as a special edition last year (which is the copy that I bought), and yet half of the update servers are already gone.

So I got to thinking--can't we just have a DRM system that works WITH the game instead of detract from it? I can't quite imagine one myself, but I figured there must be some ways to do it. Any ideas?

that would be good but no one really knows how to do that and effectivley combat pirates

also should there be a way around this auto update thing? cant they release a patch or somthing? because seriously this games having use by dates thing is a problem

I mean what If I still want to play Mass effect 2 in 10 years time?

 

[olicon]

Well, NWN2's last patch apparently fix the game so that it no longer requires the disc to play even. But I know that not many games are going to do this.

@Katana314:
I'm intrigued. That sounds like a really good idea. I bet you could do something like this, hide the real DRM on the disc itself, and it will take ages for people to discover so long as it is subtle enough.
I could think of one for shooters:
At least for games on PC, the game could allow player to start playing even if they use incorrect CD key, but may require a proper CD key as a password to unlock a room mid way through the game, etc. Kinda like how MGS allows you to use some info printed on the box to take down its bosses, etc.

 

[Erana]

I'd love to see NPCs start calling the player out for it. Just subtly at first... Then full-blown humiliating and assaulting them for it just when the game's getting fun.

It'd be amusing to see a pirate getting a good tongue-lashing by the Imperial Guard.

 

[Faladorian]

The best way to get people to buy your games is to make good games.

I feel like Ubisoft has learned their lesson, because their Assassins Creed franchise is pretty good, but the DRM on the second was ridiculous. They said Brotherhood will not have very much DRM at all. And that's why I'll actually be buying it.

 

[HassEsser]

I'd like to see a DRM that bars the player from beating the game in a spectacularly creative and extravagant manner, then promptly corrupts their save data and game data. Then they'd have to redownload, crack, and start a save all over again. This would be especially useful for a game like Skyrim, big RPG's and the likes.

EDIT: On the other hand, a game like Borderlands handled DRM very professionally and intelligently. What exactly did they do? They didn't include any DRM whatsoever, and that game did actually very well on the PC.

 

[olicon]

Having the shop keeper NPCs refusing to sell you things because you're a pirate would be very ..interesting experience. They should also offer to redirect you to the store's page to purchase the game.

 

[brumley53]

RPG games could remove every class and leave only Pirate, you can't buy anything and it replaces all the story NPC's dialog to "You know what I like doing? buying things. It means I can support the people who made it."

 

[Zaik]

For a fittingly convenient example, NWN2 actually had an in-game DRM system.

A lot of the early pirates, who I was of course not one of, couldn't leave the inn/bar place you end up in when you start the second act or chapter or whatever it was.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I'd like to see a DRM that bars the player from beating the game in a spectacularly creative and extravagant manner, then promptly corrupts their save data and game data. Then they'd have to redownload, crack, and start a save all over again. This would be especially useful for a game like Skyrim, big RPG's and the likes.

EDIT: On the other hand, a game like Borderlands handled DRM very professionally and intelligently. What exactly did they do? They didn't include any DRM whatsoever, and that game did actually very well on the PC.

Earthbound actually did this. If you have an improperly pirated version, it's possible to get to the second form of the final boss, and then have the game send you back to the title screen and delete all your saves. Considering that it was on a console, back before that form of piracy was particularly common, it's pretty impressive.

OT: Back in the early days of PC gaming, there were plenty of games that implemented DRM through the gameplay. This usually involved checking something in the manual -- usually the old "find word X on paragraph Y of page Z" method, rarely the Civilization method where you would be asked a question which could either be answered by reading the manual, or simply by having an extensive knowledge of the game -- and it occasionally involved something else included in the game package, like Meryl's codec frequency in Metal Gear Solid or the old code wheel method. The problem with all of these methods today is, not only are they annoying, but they're absolutely useless, since the answers can be distributed over the internet just as easily as the games themselves.

There was, however, one method that might actually work today. It involved a little piece of red plastic that was included in the game package. At a certain point in the game, you had to hold that plastic up to the screen to filter out a bunch of red lines and actually be able to read the answer to the puzzle and continue with the game. If this was done in a way that the answer was randomized every time, kind of like a captcha, it might be fairly successful until the hackers managed to mod those red lines out completely. The problem is that you obviously can't send a piece of red plastic over the internet, so it makes digital distribution completely impossible.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

I always liked the method where the game had a password or puzzle of some sort that could only be worked out by looking through the manual or feelies that came along with the game. Some of the old adventure games were pretty clever in this regard. However, as said earlier, the internet sorta killed it once you could just find a guide and get the answer to puzzle in question.

 

[PaintedDead]

I'd like to see a DRM that bars the player from beating the game in a spectacularly creative and extravagant manner, then promptly corrupts their save data and game data. Then they'd have to redownload, crack, and start a save all over again. This would be especially useful for a game like Skyrim, big RPG's and the likes.

EDIT: On the other hand, a game like Borderlands handled DRM very professionally and intelligently. What exactly did they do? They didn't include any DRM whatsoever, and that game did actually very well on the PC.

Earthbound actually did this. If you have an improperly pirated version, it's possible to get to the second form of the final boss, and then have the game send you back to the title screen and delete all your saves. Considering that it was on a console, back before that form of piracy was particularly common, it's pretty impressive.

OT: Back in the early days of PC gaming, there were plenty of games that implemented DRM through the gameplay. This usually involved checking something in the manual -- usually the old "find word X on paragraph Y of page Z" method, rarely the Civilization method where you would be asked a question which could either be answered by reading the manual, or simply by having an extensive knowledge of the game -- and it occasionally involved something else included in the game package, like Meryl's codec frequency in Metal Gear Solid or the old code wheel method. The problem with all of these methods today is, not only are they annoying, but they're absolutely useless, since the answers can be distributed over the internet just as easily as the games themselves.

There was, however, one method that might actually work today. It involved a little piece of red plastic that was included in the game package. At a certain point in the game, you had to hold that plastic up to the screen to filter out a bunch of red lines and actually be able to read the answer to the puzzle and continue with the game. If this was done in a way that the answer was randomized every time, kind of like a captcha, it might be fairly successful until the hackers managed to mod those red lines out completely. The problem is that you obviously can't send a piece of red plastic over the internet, so it makes digital distribution completely impossible.

Not true, takes only a few moments to change the tent on your screen to a shade of red, making that idea powerless .

 

[olicon]

So if one is to be implemented, it would have to be randomized/seeded in a way.

How about one that randomizes the time factor instead? Instead of requiring a check to authentication server, or through random engine in game, maybe we can randomize the time that the DRM is checked. Even if the information that is being asked is quasi-static, randomizing the event that triggers it would make it significantly harder for people to post the key on the net, since it will be much harder to guess when they are being checked. People who simply rips the game and post up the torrents probably wouldn't put so much effort into coming up with the perfect key, while those commercial pirates who cracks the game will have a harder time extracting the needed information since it's not even apparent where in the data files to look.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I'd like to see a DRM that bars the player from beating the game in a spectacularly creative and extravagant manner, then promptly corrupts their save data and game data. Then they'd have to redownload, crack, and start a save all over again. This would be especially useful for a game like Skyrim, big RPG's and the likes.

EDIT: On the other hand, a game like Borderlands handled DRM very professionally and intelligently. What exactly did they do? They didn't include any DRM whatsoever, and that game did actually very well on the PC.

Earthbound actually did this. If you have an improperly pirated version, it's possible to get to the second form of the final boss, and then have the game send you back to the title screen and delete all your saves. Considering that it was on a console, back before that form of piracy was particularly common, it's pretty impressive.

OT: Back in the early days of PC gaming, there were plenty of games that implemented DRM through the gameplay. This usually involved checking something in the manual -- usually the old "find word X on paragraph Y of page Z" method, rarely the Civilization method where you would be asked a question which could either be answered by reading the manual, or simply by having an extensive knowledge of the game -- and it occasionally involved something else included in the game package, like Meryl's codec frequency in Metal Gear Solid or the old code wheel method. The problem with all of these methods today is, not only are they annoying, but they're absolutely useless, since the answers can be distributed over the internet just as easily as the games themselves.

There was, however, one method that might actually work today. It involved a little piece of red plastic that was included in the game package. At a certain point in the game, you had to hold that plastic up to the screen to filter out a bunch of red lines and actually be able to read the answer to the puzzle and continue with the game. If this was done in a way that the answer was randomized every time, kind of like a captcha, it might be fairly successful until the hackers managed to mod those red lines out completely. The problem is that you obviously can't send a piece of red plastic over the internet, so it makes digital distribution completely impossible.

Not true, takes only a few moments to change the tent on your screen to a shade of red, making that idea powerless .

I hadn't thought about that. However, I'm not convinced that would do it -- completely removing red from the screen would be more useful, since what the red film does is cover up the red light from the monitor, showing you the pattern beneath. I'm not in favor of any kind of DRM, by the way -- I was just talking about some stuff that had been done in the past, and I thought one of those might actually be somewhat effective today. It was basically a primitive form of the dongle.

 

[PaintedDead]

I'd like to see a DRM that bars the player from beating the game in a spectacularly creative and extravagant manner, then promptly corrupts their save data and game data. Then they'd have to redownload, crack, and start a save all over again. This would be especially useful for a game like Skyrim, big RPG's and the likes.

EDIT: On the other hand, a game like Borderlands handled DRM very professionally and intelligently. What exactly did they do? They didn't include any DRM whatsoever, and that game did actually very well on the PC.

Earthbound actually did this. If you have an improperly pirated version, it's possible to get to the second form of the final boss, and then have the game send you back to the title screen and delete all your saves. Considering that it was on a console, back before that form of piracy was particularly common, it's pretty impressive.

OT: Back in the early days of PC gaming, there were plenty of games that implemented DRM through the gameplay. This usually involved checking something in the manual -- usually the old "find word X on paragraph Y of page Z" method, rarely the Civilization method where you would be asked a question which could either be answered by reading the manual, or simply by having an extensive knowledge of the game -- and it occasionally involved something else included in the game package, like Meryl's codec frequency in Metal Gear Solid or the old code wheel method. The problem with all of these methods today is, not only are they annoying, but they're absolutely useless, since the answers can be distributed over the internet just as easily as the games themselves.

There was, however, one method that might actually work today. It involved a little piece of red plastic that was included in the game package. At a certain point in the game, you had to hold that plastic up to the screen to filter out a bunch of red lines and actually be able to read the answer to the puzzle and continue with the game. If this was done in a way that the answer was randomized every time, kind of like a captcha, it might be fairly successful until the hackers managed to mod those red lines out completely. The problem is that you obviously can't send a piece of red plastic over the internet, so it makes digital distribution completely impossible.

Not true, takes only a few moments to change the tent on your screen to a shade of red, making that idea powerless .

I hadn't thought about that. However, I'm not convinced that would do it -- completely removing red from the screen would be more useful, since what the red film does is cover up the red light from the monitor, showing you the pattern beneath. I'm not in favor of any kind of DRM, by the way -- I was just talking about some stuff that had been done in the past, and I thought one of those might actually be somewhat effective today. It was basically a primitive form of the dongle.

Maybe we can just have the game stab us instead of a drm, that would be less bothersome in the long run...