Is it racism?

[s0denone]

And you're not getting it apparently. The Bracelet doesn't affect laws and regulations put in place in the country before you decided to go there. There isn't a "NO RED BRACELET" law. So you're not disrupting anything. All the examples I stated were about people wanting to change LAWS and such to accommodate themselves to the detriment of others and sometimes even themselves (think the turban on a motorcycle instead of a helmet). Now, hypothetically, if there was a "No Red Bracelet" law in a certain country, you would have to take it off and suck it up. Laws are in place for a reason. It's not about certain people being offended, it's about public safety and justice.

That's just Eggo's form of arguing, he cuts out certain parts of your post, and disregards anything else stated. Like he always only quote in bits.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the subject, no question; And Eggo most likely won't reply, but if he does, I'll be excited to see what he can come up with

 

[Fanboy]

Kirpans, especially the ones given to children, are purely and utterly ceremonial. I can do more damage to you with my elbow or knee than with a kirpan.

If it's still considered a weapon, it should not be allowed. Should I be allowed to bring a gun to school if it has had its mechanisms deactivated?

If it's not considered a weapon then it's not breaking the law, so no exception would need to be made.

 

[LewsTherin]

Och...if you don't want to wear a helmet motorbiking, go for it. Just don't complain when it's your grey matter coating the tarmac. I believe concessions to the Sikhs or whoever else needs to wear a turban have been made involving the RCMP uniform. And it is racist to try and go into another country and mold it to your own personal preference.

 

[Onyxblackwolf]

If you guys are totally okay with the horrifying history of European colonization in North America (not even covering Africa or Asia), then why does twin turban motorcycle riding (lolz wordplay), blunt ritual object carrying, or veil wearing cause so much distress for some of you?

Here's the thing - just because our ancestors did horrifying things in the past, doesn't mean we're doing it NOW. So the OP's question isn't at all answered, or indeed even helped along by your constant "Yeah okay whatever, but you guys remember a couple hundred years ago? That stuff was bad and you should all feel bad!"

Time has passed, culture has changed. Now in many countries culture can become more integrated - but some feel that they should be able to step outside established cultural and societal law because for some reason their particular culture is better than everyone else's. And no I'm not pointing fingers at any one particular culture.

 

[jboking]

I'm just wondering if you guys consider this racism? My family has been in Canada since the colonization by the Europeans (on my father's side). Now we have been here for a looooong time and we've been through the bad times and the good times over the past few hundred years. some of our ancestors helped build this country.

So it pisses my dad off when someone who obviously is a new immigrant comes in with pins & stickers & etc. that are basically saying "down with gay marriage", and etc (gay marriage is legal in Canada, and my dad is gay). That is just one example, but what about when other people in my family get upset and sometimes downright mad when we get immigrants who want to bend the laws so they can sort of impose their culture unto the rest of the country.
For example a guy did not want to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle on the highway, because he had a turban. Or the right to allow Kirpans in schools (a Kirpan is a small knife) to accommodate religious groups (keep in mind knives are weapons). Another one is one man refusing to wear the imposed uniform of an RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) officer because he had a turban and didn't want wear the regulatory hat. Is it racist to get mad at these people and complain?

I mean, think about it this way : you invite a person into your house, for let's say dinner. And they decide to rearrange all of your living room and furniture because they think that your house should look more like theirs. Or they start to comment on how you should be raising your kids and that you're doing a bad job. Wouldn't you get insulted and mad at them for that? I mean, they're in your home thanks to you being nice to them, and they turn around and do something insulting...

No, if they're twats, morons or just want a different slice of pie because they're different then to hell with them. "Don't like our laws, don't respect our beliefs, FUCK OFF THEN! Go back to your war-ridden country and get blown up. Don't want to die, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND BE HAPPY THAT WE LET YOU IN!"

Does this qualify as xenophobia or just dickish behaviour?

 

[s0denone]

I'm just wondering if you guys consider this racism? My family has been in Canada since the colonization by the Europeans (on my father's side). Now we have been here for a looooong time and we've been through the bad times and the good times over the past few hundred years. some of our ancestors helped build this country.

So it pisses my dad off when someone who obviously is a new immigrant comes in with pins & stickers & etc. that are basically saying "down with gay marriage", and etc (gay marriage is legal in Canada, and my dad is gay). That is just one example, but what about when other people in my family get upset and sometimes downright mad when we get immigrants who want to bend the laws so they can sort of impose their culture unto the rest of the country.
For example a guy did not want to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle on the highway, because he had a turban. Or the right to allow Kirpans in schools (a Kirpan is a small knife) to accommodate religious groups (keep in mind knives are weapons). Another one is one man refusing to wear the imposed uniform of an RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) officer because he had a turban and didn't want wear the regulatory hat. Is it racist to get mad at these people and complain?

I mean, think about it this way : you invite a person into your house, for let's say dinner. And they decide to rearrange all of your living room and furniture because they think that your house should look more like theirs. Or they start to comment on how you should be raising your kids and that you're doing a bad job. Wouldn't you get insulted and mad at them for that? I mean, they're in your home thanks to you being nice to them, and they turn around and do something insulting...

No, if they're twats, morons or just want a different slice of pie because they're different then to hell with them. "Don't like our laws, don't respect our beliefs, FUCK OFF THEN! Go back to your war-ridden country and get blown up. Don't want to die, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND BE HAPPY THAT WE LET YOU IN!"

Does this qualify as xenophobia or just dickish behaviour?

Neither. What he is trying to stress is the evident relation of laws and people. He proclaims in an exclaiming manner, that like we would have to abide by the laws of Iraq if we moved there, people from Iraq should abide by our laws when they move here.




Oh alright... It was dickish behaviour anyway, with all the caps...

 

[barryween]

Anything said about any other race that is remotley "mean"(for lack of a better word) is considered racist nowdays. But no I dont think thats racist at all and i agree.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

Why do I always end up being the one defending social groups I have utterly no interest (or reason) to defend?

Maybe because you confuse aggressive migration with lawful immigration?

 

[Easykill]

If I'm the biggest bigot around here, then you really should introduce me to your local Sikh Turban Rough Riders den.

I have no idea what this means. Call me stupid.

Good Mencken, people, it doesn't hurt you to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan

Why do I always end up being the one defending social groups I have utterly no interest (or reason) to defend?

Oh, right, that makes more sense because, after all, they ARE Saints. And saints NEVER do bad things like turn their leader over to his enemies, or kill and rape innocents in the name of their God... No, wait, I have that backwards. Saints have done ALL of that stuff in the past. And again, if they have a weapon in a fight, they will USE that weapon in a fight, even if they don't NEED to. Sorry. No religion should take precedence over common sense. If your religion requires you to carry a weapon, STRICTLY against the law, then you shouldn't go to public schools. Go to a special school established for your religion, or home school. Not exactly unfair, now is it?

Sorry Mobius, but I really need to disagree here. If you so strongly believe that having a weapon guarantees it's use, then why would you suggest that they have their own school? You're saying that you will allow people to carry their knives that they are apparently destined to use on people, but only "with their own kind". I don't like the sort of nanny/paranoid logic that is often used by the government, but I do at least understand it. If you don't follow through though, the logic crumbles. In your adherence to not creating exceptions, you have created a greater exception which will probably ultimately lead to racism. And, as I said, I don't like that logic. People in general are decent, responsible, and intelligent enough to know jumping off a building hurts. Looking down on them like that really seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.

 

[axia777]

im sorry but i dont actualy have anyhitng to say to this but um... how can you be born and your dad gay? ok I know about adoption and stuff... but yea just wondering

Lots of gay men have kids. For various reasons some of them get married. Some do it to hide in the closet, some do it for convince, but most if not all that I have known got divorced after some time.

On the subject of the thread, people posting stickers like that around is not racism because being gay does not make you a "race". It is a sexual orientation. Those assholes posting the stickers and stuff are just ignorant and bigoted. There is not much a person can do against that besides try to educate them. But on the flip side of that most people like that could give a crap about being nice to gay people.

 

[s0denone]

If I'm the biggest bigot around here, then you really should introduce me to your local Sikh Turban Rough Riders den.

I have no idea what this means. Call me stupid.

Good Mencken, people, it doesn't hurt you to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan

Why do I always end up being the one defending social groups I have utterly no interest (or reason) to defend?

Oh, right, that makes more sense because, after all, they ARE Saints. And saints NEVER do bad things like turn their leader over to his enemies, or kill and rape innocents in the name of their God... No, wait, I have that backwards. Saints have done ALL of that stuff in the past. And again, if they have a weapon in a fight, they will USE that weapon in a fight, even if they don't NEED to. Sorry. No religion should take precedence over common sense. If your religion requires you to carry a weapon, STRICTLY against the law, then you shouldn't go to public schools. Go to a special school established for your religion, or home school. Not exactly unfair, now is it?

Sorry Mobius, but I really need to disagree here. If you so strongly believe that having a weapon guarantees it's use, then why would you suggest that they have their own school? You're saying that you will allow people to carry their knives that they are apparently destined to use on people, but only "with their own kind". I don't like the sort of nanny/paranoid logic that is often used by the government, but I do at least understand it. If you don't follow through though, the logic crumbles. In your adherence to not creating exceptions, you have created a greater exception which will probably ultimately lead to racism. And, as I said, I don't like that logic. People in general are decent, responsible, and intelligent enough to know jumping off a building hurts. Looking down on them like that really seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.

If a thing is illegal to carry, you shouldn't carry it. Period.

If you MUST carry it, at least use it with and/or on others like you, hopefully changing their mind.

Schools aren't saying "We don't want that here, we dislike muslims." they are saying "We don't want weapons here, like we've always not wanted weapons here."

 

[Fanboy]

But if they are allowed knives, why shouldn't all the kids be allowed to have them?

It's an unfair exception.

Well, who cares about "fairness" in a situation like this? Its a privelage that they have been alotted under the assumption that they will obey their religion when having them on their persons. I mean, if you were in an apartment building, and you had a slightly bigger apartment for the same price as the other tennants, how would you feel if they insisted that you move to another, smaller room? Sure, that would be more, "Fair," but if you aren't doing any ill to them, then why should you suffer from their greed?

What could any other kids want to do with a knife, anyway?

I care about fairness when we are discussing the law.

It is not against the law to have a bigger property than somebody else. It is against the law to bring weapons into a school environment. Even if the weapon is just ceremonial, it jeopardizes the general feeling of safety.

What could other kids want to do with a knife? I don't know what school you went to, but we had fights break out all the time.

 

[jboking]

I'm just wondering if you guys consider this racism? My family has been in Canada since the colonization by the Europeans (on my father's side). Now we have been here for a looooong time and we've been through the bad times and the good times over the past few hundred years. some of our ancestors helped build this country.

So it pisses my dad off when someone who obviously is a new immigrant comes in with pins & stickers & etc. that are basically saying "down with gay marriage", and etc (gay marriage is legal in Canada, and my dad is gay). That is just one example, but what about when other people in my family get upset and sometimes downright mad when we get immigrants who want to bend the laws so they can sort of impose their culture unto the rest of the country.
For example a guy did not want to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle on the highway, because he had a turban. Or the right to allow Kirpans in schools (a Kirpan is a small knife) to accommodate religious groups (keep in mind knives are weapons). Another one is one man refusing to wear the imposed uniform of an RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) officer because he had a turban and didn't want wear the regulatory hat. Is it racist to get mad at these people and complain?

I mean, think about it this way : you invite a person into your house, for let's say dinner. And they decide to rearrange all of your living room and furniture because they think that your house should look more like theirs. Or they start to comment on how you should be raising your kids and that you're doing a bad job. Wouldn't you get insulted and mad at them for that? I mean, they're in your home thanks to you being nice to them, and they turn around and do something insulting...

No, if they're twats, morons or just want a different slice of pie because they're different then to hell with them. "Don't like our laws, don't respect our beliefs, FUCK OFF THEN! Go back to your war-ridden country and get blown up. Don't want to die, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND BE HAPPY THAT WE LET YOU IN!"

Does this qualify as xenophobia or just dickish behaviour?

Neither. What he is trying to stress is the evident relation of laws and people. He proclaims in an exclaiming manner, that like we would have to abide by the laws of Iraq if we moved there, people from Iraq should abide by our laws when they move here.




Oh alright... It was dickish behaviour anyway, with all the caps...

You could also consider that the United States of America proclaims itself as a country of tolerance. If we want to endource that, shouldn't we work with people of other religions to change laws that might hinder their religious practice? In other words, can't we work with them to make a compromise?

 

[goodman528]

@OP, no, that's not racism, unless you or your dad physically attacks a Sikh because he is a Sikh, and purely because he is different and regardless of whether he has broken the law or not. Or you organise a group / incite hatred with the intention of doing physical harm. Being annoyed at a particular group's illegal behaviour, then speaking out about it, is hardly racism. I mean I get very annoyed about people who don't dispose of chewing gum properly, and I am vocal about it.

But surely there isn't that many sikhs in Canada, so maybe they can use a blunt marble ornamental knife instead of a real knife. As for the helmet issue, I seem to remember an episode of the British comedy "Only fools and horses" where the protagonist Del Boy comes up with the great idea of a custom made helmet with a pre-attached turban on top. The real challenge is coming up with some sort of compromise which doesn't break the law.

But the bottom line is there should be a set of laws which every citizen abides by, that's why it's called "the law", instead of "the guidelines".

 

[TheTygerfire]

im sorry but i dont actualy have anyhitng to say to this but um... how can you be born and your dad gay? ok I know about adoption and stuff... but yea just wondering

You just answered your own question...

You really don't know how science works, do you?

 

[s0denone]

I'm just wondering if you guys consider this racism? My family has been in Canada since the colonization by the Europeans (on my father's side). Now we have been here for a looooong time and we've been through the bad times and the good times over the past few hundred years. some of our ancestors helped build this country.

So it pisses my dad off when someone who obviously is a new immigrant comes in with pins & stickers & etc. that are basically saying "down with gay marriage", and etc (gay marriage is legal in Canada, and my dad is gay). That is just one example, but what about when other people in my family get upset and sometimes downright mad when we get immigrants who want to bend the laws so they can sort of impose their culture unto the rest of the country.
For example a guy did not want to wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle on the highway, because he had a turban. Or the right to allow Kirpans in schools (a Kirpan is a small knife) to accommodate religious groups (keep in mind knives are weapons). Another one is one man refusing to wear the imposed uniform of an RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) officer because he had a turban and didn't want wear the regulatory hat. Is it racist to get mad at these people and complain?

I mean, think about it this way : you invite a person into your house, for let's say dinner. And they decide to rearrange all of your living room and furniture because they think that your house should look more like theirs. Or they start to comment on how you should be raising your kids and that you're doing a bad job. Wouldn't you get insulted and mad at them for that? I mean, they're in your home thanks to you being nice to them, and they turn around and do something insulting...

No, if they're twats, morons or just want a different slice of pie because they're different then to hell with them. "Don't like our laws, don't respect our beliefs, FUCK OFF THEN! Go back to your war-ridden country and get blown up. Don't want to die, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND BE HAPPY THAT WE LET YOU IN!"

Does this qualify as xenophobia or just dickish behaviour?

Neither. What he is trying to stress is the evident relation of laws and people. He proclaims in an exclaiming manner, that like we would have to abide by the laws of Iraq if we moved there, people from Iraq should abide by our laws when they move here.




Oh alright... It was dickish behaviour anyway, with all the caps...

You could also consider that the United States of America proclaims itself as a country of tolerance. If we want to endource that, shouldn't we work with people of other religions to change laws that might hinder their religious practice? In other words, can't we work with them to make a compromise?

Well of course! Reaching a compromise would be the best solution for everyone. Thing is, though, that breaking the law in order to promote compromise isn't very good, unless done in very large numbers, and notifying the police; Then it's a demonstration.

Cultures are different though, and I personally believe, most passionately, that the immigrant should be the adaptee - and this is regardless of race, religion or whatnot.

People are just so politically correct. Everyone agrees that a Russian should come and enforce laws in America, they're just lame, and they should adapt to life there. They share the "American religion", and as such we can descriminate them any way we like. Much like white Americans descriminate black Americans.

When you add a variable into the equation though, instead of the constant, the immigrant/ethnicity that the subject can relate to: Hell breaks loose.

Why not do a compromise for the world? Why not a compromise for overweight white women? Why not a compromise for men with long legs?

Why just a compromise for the sake of a religion? Didn't we seperate church from state a long time ago? Aren't we secularised?

The trouble is that the middle-eastern countries are not, or some of them at least. It's their pain, though, since we shouldn't change the whole idea of our state and government just for their sake. Sure we could perhaps make slight adjustment, for the better of the religion, but why not the adjustment for the long-legged asian man? The black woman with large hair?

Or is it just religion? The very bridge we crossed, we are moving back towards again? A bridge we should have burned, perhaps?

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Racism is discrimintaing against someone purely because of their culture or race. This is not. This is sensible.