Is it racist to ban the N-word? I'm confused here.

[MysticSlayer]

Well, I can sort of see how it can be racist. There's a white NFL commissioner who wants to place a ban on a word used predominantly by black players simply because of the off chance that if a white player uses it it would be considered racist. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

So then by that rational, is it also racist for a "white NFL commissioner" to want to ban the use of the racist slur "cracker" because it would mean that "white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people"?

Hard to say because, as far as I know, that isn't a common "problem" being dealt with on the field.

One problem with these kind of discussions is that they are incredibly context-sensitive, and trying to apply the same logic to a different context can be very hard. We can get some overarching basics down, but otherwise we have to consider the complexities of the situation. Maybe I'm just weird in that I don't know of any white people using it in an endearing way towards each other, and I certainly don't hear a lot of black people use it except in an obviously derogatory and prejudicial way (which I've already addressed), but as of right now, the social climate surrounding the two words seems too different to really make a direct comparison.

And again, I'll say that I don't doubt the NFL has good intentions, but they're not really considering the complexities of the situation.

 

[keiji_Maeda]

c) The point of insults is to anger the other person after all.

d) If a black guy has pissed me off I would drop the N bomb, that doesn't make me racist. It's just a word.

These are two very different matters,it's a shivvy stick alright but lemme give you a guidance.

Saying the N-word, whether or not you believe that there is a difference in colored folk's from Asians, Whites,hispanics or us mongrels, makes it racist. Yes, it does, you may not consider yourself racist, you may be a great philanthropist and loer of all-mankind, but at that moment, you are marginalizing black people with a word that essentialy means nothing but "ignorant-simply-shiftless-black-person" not Twat,not asshole or anyfink' else. It is specfically inteded to marginalize Black people and that is racist. In saying to someone else you are marginalizing 'em, and that is racist. Whether or not you intended for it to be.

I know the insult is racist, I said it was in 2.b) Just like "*****" is sexist, "******" is racist and "bender" is homophobic. And of course there's a difference between the insults used for the different races dude, come on. ******, wog, spic, cracker etc.

Now i have scant hopes for digging you out of your entrenched position, so lemme make a different point. It'll piss them of, but as an insult? any five year old can drag racism out of the cupboard, and teens often do, it's simple and ignorant and not that great of an insult.

If I'm angry enough to be insulting someone then how "good", original or poetic an insult is I just don't care. Eloquence is one of the first things out the window when you're angry enough that you might be fighting soon.

And these insults are too good to pass up, they come with so much baggage and are almost guaranteed to piss the other person off.

But right now,being calm, collected and willing to argue the merits of impetus actions on the internet you look at your actions and believe it to be entirely justified to be racist just because it might anger the other person? Sounds like a lazy copout according to me, and doesn't really "cut" to the other person.
Merits of insults aside, pissing somebody of is a easy thing, resorting to racism off-handedly means you are willing to make use of racist methodology and reasoning to get a cheap victory in, what i completely assume now, to be a conflict that is very important for you to win. Can not see the merits of this, you obviously can.

So, razor.

 

[Something Amyss]

America is queen prude when it comes to language though.

And as I just said, I'm yet to meet the culture that doesn't fit similar parameters.

Yeah, I'm surprised that so many people don't seem to get this point. Black bro-athletes, rappers, teenage boys ect. don't represent the entire 'black community'. Just because some groups have embraced the use of a slur, doesn't mean that the entire community approves it.

People love simplifications. I mean, not everyone (that would itself be a simplification), but there are more than enough people and the folks who fail to make the distinction likely fall into that.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

America is queen prude when it comes to language though.

And as I just said, I'm yet to meet the culture that doesn't fit similar parameters.

Welcome to Argentina, where nobody gives a fuck what pronoun you call them so long as you don't knife them in the ribs for $20.

 

[Something Amyss]

Welcome to Argentina, where nobody gives a fuck what pronoun you call them so long as you don't knife them in the ribs for $20.

So are there no transsexuals in Argentina, or what?

 

[kilenem]

Well the NAACP BARIED THE N-Word Detroit almost ten years ago. So I going to say no since some a large amount of Black people don't want the word to because period. As a Black Guy I just think the N-word isn't something you use in particular situations. Like Jay-Z can say the N-word in his music but he can't up to Obama and say what up my N-word. I think the N-word like other cursing words shouldn't be used during national broadcasting because some old person will complain to the FCC making everyone super sensitive about censorship.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Welcome to Argentina, where nobody gives a fuck what pronoun you call them so long as you don't knife them in the ribs for $20.

So are there no transsexuals in Argentina, or what?

I thought we were talking about political correctness in the use of gender pronouns and their lack of social relevance in a society that because of its impoverished economy and sky-rocketing crime rates has more pressing issues to attend to. And because of other stuff too. I'll illustrate. See, in a country accustomed to military dicatorships that would terrorize their own through the forceful dissapearence of tens of thousands of people, accustomed to having the 7th highest inflation rate in the whole world, accustomed to having its own politicians under investigation for fraud and embezzlement and money laundry and profiteering, accustomed to hundreds of unsolved murders every year, accustomed to 8 women getting beaten to death every week... yes, that's a statistic. I counted them last year.

Spoiler

Melina Monzon (25) - doused in gasoline and lit in fire in April. Passed away 4 months later with 70% of her body burnt. Boyfriend walks free. Case remains unsolved. Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Rocio Abigail Juarez (22) - raped, shot in the head and partially burnt in an alleyway. Case remains unsolved. Zarate, Argentina.

Angeles Rawson (16) - found bound and dead in a landfill in June. Signs of sexual abuse. Case remains unsolved. Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Araceli Ramos (19) - disappeared in September on her way to a job interview, found dead in an empty lot. A former police prefect is implicated. Signs of sexual abuse. Case remains unsolved. Loma Hermosa, Argentina.

Patricia Silvina Ardiles (23) - bound, raped and strangled to death in September. Found wrapped in plastic in an empty lot. Suspect was a co-worker and fellow church-goer. Case remains unsolved. Mar del Plata, Argentina.

A body of 15 to 20 years - found bloody, beaten and sexually abused. Case remains unsolved. San Juan, Argentina.

Micaela Medrano (20) - found beaten, raped, strangled and dead by her mother, who went to wake her up in her bed. Case remains unsolved. Lomas de Zamora, Argentina.

A. M. (14) - stabbed to death by her boyfriend (18) after she broke up with him, a few weeks ago. Kid remains in custody. Case remains unsolved. Tarrega, Argentina.

Mari Carmen Martinez Lopez (27) - found dead inside her car with a plastic bag around her head. Case remains unsolved. Roldan, Argentina.

Celeste Judith Moreno (20) - mother of two and pregnant with a third child, found murdered. Boyfriend suspected. Case remains unsolved. Catamarca, Argentina.

Maria del Valle Condori (35) - mother of two, found floating in a river. Signs of sexual abuse. This happened on October 8th and was the fourth murder of the month. Subsecretary of Secuty resigned. Case remains unsolved. Catamarca, Argentina.

Asunta Basterra Porto (12) - sedated and strangled, parents are suspected. Case remains unsolved. Teo, Argentina.

... in a country accustomed to all of this, name-calling falls somewhere between "I don't give a fuck" and "I don't give two fucks". In a nice orderly country like say the US, this kind of insensitivy can get you fired and damage your life, career and reputation. Here you get a boo, like, maybe, and move on. First world issues vs. third world issues: there's a difference. Because even the fucking cops are out there rioting and piqueting and not answering any calls, friend, while everybody is out there looting shit, like that one Simpsons episode when the city's power goes out? That's us more often than not. So, name-calling - not a priority. Which is what I've been arguing all this time and will continue to do so for as long as you challenge my knowledge of my own country. The one that gets my old man's house broken into three times a week (really!) and gets him tied up and mauled. The one that gets me beat up on the way home every year.

And when did I even bring up sexual diversity?

 

[Something Amyss]

I thought we were talking about political correctness in the use of gender pronouns and their lack of social relevance in a society that because of its impoverished economy and sky-rocketing crime rates has more pressing issues to attend to. And because of other stuff too.

Actually, we were talking about people not caring about use of language. But since you said "pronoun" and "nobody cares," I immediately thought about transsexuals, who would very plainly care. Talking about how violent it is does nothing but attempt to distract the issue.

Besides, the US tops most violent crime statistics of any developed nation, so it doesn't particularly matter how many examples you cite.

And when did I even bring up sexual diversity?

When did I say you did?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I thought we were talking about political correctness in the use of gender pronouns and their lack of social relevance in a society that because of its impoverished economy and sky-rocketing crime rates has more pressing issues to attend to. And because of other stuff too.

Actually, we were talking about people not caring about use of language. But since you said "pronoun" and "nobody cares," I immediately thought about transsexuals, who would very plainly care. Talking about how violent it is does nothing but attempt to distract the issue.

Besides, the US tops most violent crime statistics of any developed nation, so it doesn't particularly matter how many examples you cite.

And when did I even bring up sexual diversity?

When did I say you did?

When you asked, for some reason, if "there are no transsexuals in Argentina", as if their presence would be conducent to widespread issues regarding gender pronouns. And like I stated, no, it's not an issue. Not by a very long, long way.

 

[Ice Car]

...... Seriously? People are saying this? People think it's racist to ban an inherently racist word, to who now? Is it racist to white people or something because it's oppressing their free speech? I'm having so much trouble trying to understand this.

I'm gonna try not to go full-on tumblrtard here and just say that the word ******, regardless of the frequency of the word, or the perceived "decline in racism," is still used as a racist term and it's not going to go away unless you change the damned definition of the word entirely. It's just being used less, and it has not become any less racist than it was before.

Don't bring up that "but we should all just get along and stop defining words as offensive so we can achieve true equality!!!!! VIVA LA REVOLUTION" BS either. While I agree with it to some degree, don't get me wrong, it's not some kind of rock-solid defense that you can use every time an issue about somebody, or some group of people being offended. Just because you're not offended, doesn't mean it isn't offensive to others, and just because it personally isn't harmful to you, despite a blanket term including you, doesn't mean you speak for everybody else.

No it's not racist to anybody, it's the polar opposite of that. It's extreme anti-racism. I can't even fathom how people would try and defend themselves or oppose this rule and it completely baffles me. The only reason you'd want to protest it is because you want to protect your right to use it on the field, and if you do, I...

I don't get it. At all. Not one bit.

 

[Nouw]

My question is, what happens when a white person calls another white person ******?

You get the teeangers of today, and I don't even live in America! It's mostly to do with Vines really, the "my nigga" meme really blew up on there.

 

[Queen Michael]

Hey, the first answer to this thread, which was mine by the way, got quoted on Escapist.txt! =D

 

[Cerebrawl]

. Essentially, you have white people dictating to black people what they are and aren't allowed to say based entirely on the standards of white people. I'm rather certain that that falls under the category of "racism".

Uh... Don't black people ALREADY do this to white people? Don't most minorities make the "You can't use that, it's a slur against my group" claim whenever some one of the majority uses a word they deem offensive? Hell, I've seen people get chewed out for saying "Ladies and Gentlemen" because it "discriminates against the non-binary."

As a matter of fact, isn't that basically what started the debate in the first place, one group telling another what they can or cannot say? Black people saying white people can't use the n-word?

Whiners will whine. Some people will latch on to any reason to be offended, because it makes them feel vindicated in their own views and preconceptions. It gives them a sense of moral superiority, of being better than you.

Here's my favorite take on it: