Is it right to give money to beggars?

[Rayne870]

The key to reducing the homeless population is simply to reduce their population. Starving them out is a slow roundabout way to do it and it isn't working. In Canada there are a ton of jobs and a ton of unfilled positions as well as a very high unemployment rate. We can't cure lazy by throwing money at it.

Wait... are you saying the problem with homeless people starving is it an efficient way of killing them off? Please, please be joking. And by "reduce their population" I hope you mean get they homes and jobs rather than kill them.

Actually I said it isn't efficient. And no I don't like the idea of finding them jobs and homes and such using taxpayer dollars when there were more than enough opportunities in their lives to get those things themselves. I'm not saying go out and kill em but I'm not gonna support them either. I work for my cash and others can get off their asses and do it too.

Yeah, sorry typo'd efficient, meant to say efficient. Now, some are just being lazy and that's bad but do you realise how hard it is for many people to get jobs? The reason we pay tax (among other reasons) is so the government (whos job is to look after us) can help the poor sods get "off their asses" as you put it. Those people starving and dying of illness because they can't afford food and medicine? They're not there because there less intelligent or as hard-working than you. Chances are they're there because they got a bad hand in life and frankly most of the ones I've met seem a lot nicer people than you.

And a disclaimer: I'm talking about the sincere ones there, don't bring up the actual lazy bastards.

Look, I'm living in an area where Bilingualism is REQUIRED for any advancement, and I am far from bilingual. I essentially have nothing more than a high school education and mediocre grades at that. Yet I am able to hold a steady job and pay for an apartment. It really isn't that hard. Throwing the Illness thing out might be a fair thing anywhere except Canada, and that is simply because we have awesome health care. And actually I am a very nice person I just have very strong opinions against enabling the homeless by throwing money at it rather than the people in trouble using all of the safety nets that are in place long before someone ends up on the street.

Things are probably different in your area, but my opinion based on my area is based on the fact that most of them are the same lazy bastards that if you follow long enough don't have an excuse for their begging and are taking advantage of the public.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

Yeah I'll give them money if I've got it. And no I don't care if they buy drugs or alcohol with it. They live on the streets, I'd probably be a junkie too if I lived that life.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

This has been quite an interesting thread to read.

 

[teknoarcanist]

Funny how I've never seen a street beggar outside the US, innit?

Oh dear. You've never been to Italy, have you? They're old women there. Horrible, pathetic old women moaning in absolute misery. Reminded me of my grandma makes you feel like the scum of the fucking earth when you have to pass them by.

 

[orangeban]

The key to reducing the homeless population is simply to reduce their population. Starving them out is a slow roundabout way to do it and it isn't working. In Canada there are a ton of jobs and a ton of unfilled positions as well as a very high unemployment rate. We can't cure lazy by throwing money at it.

Wait... are you saying the problem with homeless people starving is it an efficient way of killing them off? Please, please be joking. And by "reduce their population" I hope you mean get they homes and jobs rather than kill them.

Actually I said it isn't efficient. And no I don't like the idea of finding them jobs and homes and such using taxpayer dollars when there were more than enough opportunities in their lives to get those things themselves. I'm not saying go out and kill em but I'm not gonna support them either. I work for my cash and others can get off their asses and do it too.

Yeah, sorry typo'd efficient, meant to say efficient. Now, some are just being lazy and that's bad but do you realise how hard it is for many people to get jobs? The reason we pay tax (among other reasons) is so the government (whos job is to look after us) can help the poor sods get "off their asses" as you put it. Those people starving and dying of illness because they can't afford food and medicine? They're not there because there less intelligent or as hard-working than you. Chances are they're there because they got a bad hand in life and frankly most of the ones I've met seem a lot nicer people than you.

And a disclaimer: I'm talking about the sincere ones there, don't bring up the actual lazy bastards.

Look, I'm living in an area where Bilingualism is REQUIRED for any advancement, and I am far from bilingual. I essentially have nothing more than a high school education and mediocre grades at that. Yet I am able to hold a steady job and pay for an apartment. It really isn't that hard. Throwing the Illness thing out might be a fair thing anywhere except Canada, and that is simply because we have awesome health care. And actually I am a very nice person I just have very strong opinions against enabling the homeless by throwing money at it rather than the people in trouble using all of the safety nets that are in place long before someone ends up on the street.

Things are probably different in your area, but my opinion based on my area is based on the fact that most of them are the same lazy bastards that if you follow long enough don't have an excuse for their begging and are taking advantage of the public.

Hmm, okay, maybe I misjudged you for which I apoligise I was a bit out of hand there. But I'm firmly in the view that it is hard to get a job in general and I'm in Scotland which is hardly a tough country to get by in. I now many people who have a very tough time getting good jobs and while they haven't got down to the level of begging I can see that in somewhere such as the USA with less than stellar benefits and support they would be in a very difficult position. The beggars who are scammers are bastards but I don't believe the sincere ones are there through laziness.

 

[orangeban]

Funny how I've never seen a street beggar outside the US, innit?

Oh dear. You've never been to Italy, have you? They're old women there. Horrible, pathetic old women moaning in absolute misery. Reminded me of my grandma makes you feel like the scum of the fucking earth when you have to pass them by.

Oh I feel that. I went to Sicily and get exactly what you mean. The only thing worse is when there missing limbs and are outside churches. It's something about it being a church yet people just walk right past them that real gets to you. And then when you do the same you want to curl up and die.

 

[Devin Parker]

I'm not exactly sure religious scripture is appropriate in this thread, particularly the high-handed way you've just delivered it.

I didn't see a label at the beginning of the thread that banned any discussion of religious beliefs. The poster asked if it was right to give to beggars. If a moral stance based on religious conviction has no place in this conversation, then the poster shouldn't have phrased the question in terms of morality.

Considering that this is an issue that human beings have dealt with for centuries, and that the Christian Church, as well as other religious institutions, has traditionally cared for the poor for as long, I question your reasoning for trying to squelch such views.

 

[Rayne870]

Snip

It's cool and no worries. It's all just about circumstances and differences in society. Thankfully here the sincere ones are usually taken care of and tend to get unemployment or "wellfare". Which I say they should be put to some kind of work in exchange for but I am not so aggressive about that opinion. Essentially the situation is that one has to actually try here to fall through the cracks it isn't accidental.

The US on the other hand is quite a bit more cut throat as far as I can understand and there seems to be a lower and declining standard of living there in general. My fiance and I recently took a trip to the US and when we came back our conclusion was "Wow, if they don't watch it they will be a third world country within the next hundred years."

I have no idea what the situation in Scotland is but I am sure it supports your opinions quite well.

Anyway you have my respect for discussing things thoroughly and standing up for your opinion.

 

[orangeban]

Snip

It's cool and no worries. It's all just about circumstances and differences in society. Thankfully here the sincere ones are usually taken care of and tend to get unemployment or "wellfare". Which I say they should be put to some kind of work in exchange for but I am not so aggressive about that opinion. Essentially the situation is that one has to actually try here to fall through the cracks it isn't accidental.

The US on the other hand is quite a bit more cut throat as far as I can understand and there seems to be a lower and declining standard of living there in general. My fiance and I recently took a trip to the US and when we came back our conclusion was "Wow, if they don't watch it they will be a third world country within the next hundred years."

I have no idea what the situation in Scotland is but I am sure it supports your opinions quite well.

Anyway you have my respect for discussing things thoroughly and standing up for your opinion.

Thanks and the situation in Scotland is similar to Canada I expect. Lots of benefits and welfare and suchlike. Better than England generally seeing as how we're a bit more bent towards Socialism here than they are.

 

[Nieroshai]

It is much better to feed and clothe, and even shelter, the homeless. But money works if you have someplace to be. That and money can be spent on booze, food cannot.

 

[Rayne870]

Snip

It's cool and no worries. It's all just about circumstances and differences in society. Thankfully here the sincere ones are usually taken care of and tend to get unemployment or "wellfare". Which I say they should be put to some kind of work in exchange for but I am not so aggressive about that opinion. Essentially the situation is that one has to actually try here to fall through the cracks it isn't accidental.

The US on the other hand is quite a bit more cut throat as far as I can understand and there seems to be a lower and declining standard of living there in general. My fiance and I recently took a trip to the US and when we came back our conclusion was "Wow, if they don't watch it they will be a third world country within the next hundred years."

I have no idea what the situation in Scotland is but I am sure it supports your opinions quite well.

Anyway you have my respect for discussing things thoroughly and standing up for your opinion.

Thanks and the situation in Scotland is similar to Canada I expect. Lots of benefits and welfare and suchlike. Better than England generally seeing as how we're a bit more bent towards Socialism here than they are.

So essentially it comes down to your homeless population actually being victims. Rather than here where most are able bodied 18-25 year-olds with seemingly no mental illnesses.

I'm not entirely sure how to relate this to any of the conversation but I felt the need to share the following short story:
I once spent a bus ride to work talking with a man whom had a motorcycle accident some years ago. He was not wearing a helmet at the time and suffered severe brain trauma. Essentially that trauma was so severe that he had to re-learn everything from speech to the actual usage of a toilet. This man had lived for several years on government support and just recently became able to rejoin the work force. Through those years he worked on everything he would need to do so.

This is the sort of thing I support and applaud. I especially impressed with the man's diction, and his dedication to learning rather than just giving up.

 

[GeeksUtopia]

I say give money to beggars who obviously have a disability, like one's you can physically see. While those who are in good shape and look like they could do some physical labor should be given advice, and a hand to reach up for to get that job.

 

[orangeban]

Snip

It's cool and no worries. It's all just about circumstances and differences in society. Thankfully here the sincere ones are usually taken care of and tend to get unemployment or "wellfare". Which I say they should be put to some kind of work in exchange for but I am not so aggressive about that opinion. Essentially the situation is that one has to actually try here to fall through the cracks it isn't accidental.

The US on the other hand is quite a bit more cut throat as far as I can understand and there seems to be a lower and declining standard of living there in general. My fiance and I recently took a trip to the US and when we came back our conclusion was "Wow, if they don't watch it they will be a third world country within the next hundred years."

I have no idea what the situation in Scotland is but I am sure it supports your opinions quite well.

Anyway you have my respect for discussing things thoroughly and standing up for your opinion.

Thanks and the situation in Scotland is similar to Canada I expect. Lots of benefits and welfare and suchlike. Better than England generally seeing as how we're a bit more bent towards Socialism here than they are.

So essentially it comes down to your homeless population actually being victims. Rather than here where most are able bodied 18-25 year-olds with seemingly no mental illnesses.

I'm not entirely sure how to relate this to any of the conversation but I felt the need to share the following short story:
I once spent a bus ride to work talking with a man whom had a motorcycle accident some years ago. He was not wearing a helmet at the time and suffered severe brain trauma. Essentially that trauma was so severe that he had to re-learn everything from speech to the actual usage of a toilet. This man had lived for several years on government support and just recently became able to rejoin the work force. Through those years he worked on everything he would need to do so.

This is the sort of thing I support and applaud. I especially impressed with the man's diction, and his dedication to learning rather than just giving up.

Yeah, that kind of thing is very excellent. The 18-25's here tend to busk actually which I guess is making an effort. I mean, you need a busking license to do so, so you've put a bit of effort in. Most are pretty open about what they want. I've seen at least three saying just trying to fund a trip round the world.

Most of the actual beggars tend to be illegal immigrants who can't get the benefits as I've mentioned elsewhere on this topic. I think the ones who are, say, mentally ill somehow end up in the NHS' (National Health Service) arms some way or another. Probably family and friends giving a hand or something.

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

I give money to the guy who stands on cheapside everyday playing some of the best songs ever written, in my humble opinion, everything from the Beatles to Fleetwood Mac. Classics every one, and hardly ever repeats himself. That's not begging I know, but that's the closest I get. I give to charity to help the homeless.

I should note, I live in the UK and it's not much of a problem. It's difficult to become utterly without hope with all the benefits, welfare, and such available. In major towns you will almost never encounter more than one or two homeless, often psychologically unwell individuals who haven't got family to care for them anymore (so they're mostly in their late 50s). Even when I travel to major population centres like London, Birmingham, Leeds there are relatively few. The problem sounds much worse in the US.

 

[RingaFiar]

I'm not exactly sure religious scripture is appropriate in this thread, particularly the high-handed way you've just delivered it.

I didn't see a label at the beginning of the thread that banned any discussion of religious beliefs. The poster asked if it was right to give to beggars. If a moral stance based on religious conviction has no place in this conversation, then the poster shouldn't have phrased the question in terms of morality.

Considering that this is an issue that human beings have dealt with for centuries, and that the Christian Church, as well as other religious institutions, has traditionally cared for the poor for as long, I question your reasoning for trying to squelch such views.

OK I'll bite, very well put too, it wasn't so much that the original poster quoted scripture that I found offensive, it was the actual passage that was quoted. I sent him or her a PM and we resolved this, if you'd like to do the same I'd be more than happy too.

For the record I've no problems with people putting any religious or morality bent on an argument, I just objected to the passage quoted.

I'll also retroactively edit my post because now I realise I missed a crucial word out : - "I'm not exactly sure THIS* religious scripture is appropriate in this thread."

*Still learning the forums, not sure how to put it in bold, I'll get there!

 

[Radiantskys]

Interestingly enough this is something I've often thought about. Not to long ago I saw a documentary of a millionaire going onto street corners being for money making hundreds of dollars a day. He said that he earned more money standing on the street begging than he did at his job.

So how do you really know if they are poor or not? If someone dirties themselves up enough will you give them money?

I personally agree with going with them and buying them food or even a warm blanket but I would more than likely not give cash.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

Sometimes I do, but I hardly ever have any change on me. It's not like I wouldn't help them, but there are literally dozens of them around the campus of my university. Even if I had the change to spare, there is no way I could give each one something. I guess that's why they gather around a place with 50000 students, most of whom have disposable income, the fast food places will hand out leftovers to them at the end of the day, and the local churches allow them to sleep on their property.
As for the accusation that most of them are scam artists, I'd happily give a dollar to anybody who is willing to wear urine drenched clothes and stand in the blistering heat for meager change. If they are just scammers, I'd still have the final laugh for having essentially paid somebody to do the above.

 

[Rayne870]

Yeah, that kind of thing is very excellent. The 18-25's here tend to busk actually which I guess is making an effort. I mean, you need a busking license to do so, so you've put a bit of effort in. Most are pretty open about what they want. I've seen at least three saying just trying to fund a trip round the world.

Most of the actual beggars tend to be illegal immigrants who can't get the benefits as I've mentioned elsewhere on this topic. I think the ones who are, say, mentally ill somehow end up in the NHS' (National Health Service) arms some way or another. Probably family and friends giving a hand or something.

What is "busking?" The concept of Illegal immigrants is a bit weird here too lol, we are very open to refugees for any number of vague reasons, so it tends to be more that our immigrants are actually legal, and they do tend to actually work for a living. They may not hold the highest jobs and tend to not have a lot of credentials recognized but it is very rare that I see a non white non 18-25 year old on the streets. Every now and then I see the odd elderly man or woman with a shopping cart filled with junk but they never bother anyone or beg and seem to be no worse for ware.

There is one white male 18-25 year-old that I did want to give money to though(not out of support but out of entertainment). He walked past my family with a cardboard sign saying "too ugly to prostitute" and according to my sister he was very cute.

 

[orangeban]

Yeah, that kind of thing is very excellent. The 18-25's here tend to busk actually which I guess is making an effort. I mean, you need a busking license to do so, so you've put a bit of effort in. Most are pretty open about what they want. I've seen at least three saying just trying to fund a trip round the world.

Most of the actual beggars tend to be illegal immigrants who can't get the benefits as I've mentioned elsewhere on this topic. I think the ones who are, say, mentally ill somehow end up in the NHS' (National Health Service) arms some way or another. Probably family and friends giving a hand or something.

What is "busking?" The concept of Illegal immigrants is a bit weird here too lol, we are very open to refugees for any number of vague reasons, so it tends to be more that our immigrants are actually legal, and they do tend to actually work for a living. They may not hold the highest jobs and tend to not have a lot of credentials recognized but it is very rare that I see a non white non 18-25 year old on the streets. Every now and then I see the odd elderly man or woman with a shopping cart filled with junk but they never bother anyone or beg and seem to be no worse for ware.

There is one white male 18-25 year-old that I did want to give money to though(not out of support but out of entertainment). He walked past my family with a cardboard sign saying "too ugly to prostitute" and according to my sister he was very cute.

Busking is performing for the cash. So someone who plays guitar on the street and you chuck a coin in his guitar case or whatever is busking. It's actually a very legitamate thing. I mean, here in Edinburgh we have the Edinburgh festival where it's just street performers (there's a lot of comedians) for ages. There's actual venues and performances but most of it's just people on the street.

The thing with the illegal immigrants is many people are very polarised about them. Some say we should support them, others effectively say GTFO to them (I'm in the first, to an extent (my views are a mish mash of pragmatic and idealistic ideas.)) You also get a lot of Europeans who can immigrate in freely as long as there in the European Union. Some of them end up begging but I think that's mainly to save up so they can buy some Big Issue (look back in the forums for what the Big Issue is)