Is it time for feminists to step off our hobby?

[BloatedGuppy]

This. Feminism honestly needs to start policing itself because the "defenders" are just as vitriolic and aggressive as the attackers.

Oh good idea. We'll bring this up at the next feminists meeting, and anyone breaking the rules will have their charter membership revoked.

Conversely, rather than asking a dilute demographic that numbers in the tens if not hundreds of millions to "police itself", we could just...you know...exercise critical thinking when we encounter opinions.

 

[Schadrach]

I'm not comparing gamers to black people, I'm comparing people making that argument to racists.

And that's where you lose me, because this is not the civil rights movement, it's not the stonewall riots, and it certainly isn't the god damn underground railroad. You're just crafting this narrative where the eeeeeeeeeeeevil feminists control social media and have made you some oppressed minority despite having no good evidence to that effect.

It's like you missed exactly the point of the bit around the part you quoted. I literally said that I wasn't comparing gamers to black people, because I'm not arguing gamers are some kind of oppressed minority.

I'm comparing the "gamers are misogynistic harassers" bullshit to arguments used by racists to justify their views to themselves. That is to say using a tiny, tiny minority who behaves badly as a brush with which to paint an entire population. You know, because that entire argument is fallacious.

Saying "You saw that tweet $VICTIM got where they were called female-specific bad words? That just shows you that the gaming community is a bunch of misogynistic assholes" is built on the same shaky logical ground as "You see that $RACIAL_SLUR on camera robbing that gas station on the news last night? That just shows you that the $RACE community is a bunch of criminal scum." It's the same argument, and it's just as wrong of an argument because the argument itself is flawed (specifically, it's a fallacy of composition), much like the racist version of it is equally wrong whether your talking about blacks, Mexicans, or whoever is the next race that it becomes popular to hate.

Oh, you got death threats and didn't care? Good for you. I'm glad you give so little fucks. But that doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to get effected by it, and I don't care whether one specific user harassed a female, since plenty of others obviously did.

WizardChan is the group that was allegedly responsible for all the harassment Zoe Quinn received when she put her game up on Greenlight (Dec 2013), and the response to it was why her game got promptly Greenlit (becuse if a woman can show people say mean things about her, parts of the internet will give her whatever she needs). They're a forum for (and I mean this literally) 30+ year old depressed male virgins. The name is a reference to an internet meme, and one of the larger boards on the site has a suicide hotline at the top of the page. The story was popularized in gaming media without checking into it, because checking into it would have revealed it as a farce, but it met the desired narrative so why bother doing any fact-checking?

As for my own threats, my point was that anyone who says anything controversial gets death threats, generally in proportion with how visible they are and how many people don't like their message (for example, I *really* wouldn't want to be someone like thunderf00t or TheAmazingAthiest, because I imagine they get vast amounts of hatemail from the size of their channels). It's literally not about them being a woman, except that their being visibly a woman changes which lexicon of insults and threats will be used.

Let me put it this way, are these the kinds of things that someone gets told for being a woman on the internet being critical about video games, the sort of attacks that would never ever be directed at a man?

Spoiler: NSFW vicious things said in this spoiler

"Anita Sarkeesian is a ****"

"This girl needs to take a vacation with a cinder block to the bottom of the Pacific, so that maybe everyone will finally stop bitching about her."

"Nice. Anita Sarkeesian is getting on everyones nerves and fucking pissing everyone off. Sum1 should go to her relatives homes, fuck her mom, rape her dad then ram a red hot iron bar into her pussy. She seriously needs to do everyone a favor for once and die. That mother fucking anti gamer shit. Oh well we cant blame her for doing this line of work. Hey not everyone has normal brains."

"Wow does this girl have to complain about everything, like comon there just video games. and exactly she is just a publicity whore."

"Does anyone know Anita Sarkeesian?s address? i wanna kill her."

"I hope Anita Sarkeesian slips in a puddle of aids and falls on a jagged piece of rusty metal and it penetrates her spincter, thus giving her aids and tetnus, and she will get lockjaw from tetnus which would shut that **** up untill she succombs to the aids."

"I just sent Anita Sarkeesian yet another email. I wonder when she?ll respond to all those hatemail I sent her?"

"The girl is a fucktarded fucking ****"

"I hope she fucking dies."

"I?ve got another Musket fully loaded and hanging on my wall with her name on it."

"OMG! Anita Sarkeesian is a **** and should be shot and killed dead and I hate Anita Sarkeesian and she doesnt know fuck all about games and gamers and she is a ****"

"I can?t wait until Anita Sarkeesian dies. At least earthworms will benefit from her existence then."

"I hope she goes to africa and gets buttf*cked by a gorilla and dies of aids."

"I also agree that she should be butt fucked "

Are they? If you think so, then check the spoiler below:

Spoiler

If you replace the name, change the pronoun genders, and replace "pussy" with "dick" on the iron bar one, those are all said about/to Jack Thompson. Shockingly, people are assholes on the internet, even to people who have a penis. It's what they call the "online disinhibition effect", sometimes referred to as GIFT.

 

[Schadrach]

Oh good idea. We'll bring this up at the next feminists meeting, and anyone breaking the rules will have their charter membership revoked.

Conversely, rather than asking a dilute demographic that numbers in the tens if not hundreds of millions to "police itself", we could just...you know...exercise critical thinking when we encounter opinions.

That's exactly what people making claims about the "gaming community" are doing, though (including the amusing assumption that anyone who disagrees with them is necessarily a cis straight white male). Why should that be permissible behavior from one side and not the other?

I still find it amusing the number of middle class white women who believe that anyone who isn't a cis straight white male that disagrees with them is being controlled, manipulated, or is lying about their identity. Just watch #notyourshield for an amusing number of examples.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That's exactly what people making claims about the "gaming community" are doing, though (including the amusing assumption that anyone who disagrees with them is necessarily a cis straight white male). Why should that be permissible behavior from one side and not the other?

You'll always find "people" are doing and saying crazy things. I didn't say that. I've long disputed the use of the term "gamer" as a blanket term. We don't group people together as "television watchers". Gaming is a mainstream hobby now. We are not a hive mind. How the fuck are "gamers" supposed to police themselves? If some idiot is popping off in chat on his 360, am I supposed to detect that from half a world away and amend his behavior?

I still find it amusing the number of middle class white women who believe that anyone who isn't a cis straight white male that disagrees with them is being controlled, manipulated, or is lying about their identity. Just watch #notyourshield for an amusing number of examples.

Any time you throw a blanket over a particular gender, race, or demographic, and start getting "amused" by what you perceive as shared characteristics, you are engaging in prejudicial thinking. I'm not drawing any conclusions about your character from that, just pointing out lazy/potentially distasteful thinking. It's fuel for confirmation bias, and can eventually lead to just straight up bone-deep prejudice.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

A lot of the "controversies" in videogames (and arguably every form of media) are stirred up by the vocal minority. It's because of this that I usually don't really pay that much attention to them. It's not like they have that much of an effect on how games are made anyways.

 

[omega 616]

No.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist (to me, it sounds like white supremacists just what equality), I do want equal representation in our media. I want to play as a gay guy, a non sexualized woman, a trans-person, a person who at the start isn't sure of who they are but during the game (which is totally unrelated to the protagonists goal) finds themselves. (like playing Mass Effect but every so often they have a conversation about who or what they are into).

I am just bored as fuck of certain things in gaming, such has playing as a 20-40 year old white male (usually with brown hair). I am bored of skimpy armor or clothing in general on women. It's why when I can, I play as women in games (saints row and elder scrolls), then dress them up in NORMAL clothes ... in saints row, I had a woman that mainly wore a black business suit with saints colored high heels and accessories, she was womanly but didn't look like a whore!

I can't see how any kind of diversity is bad, why are you all so intent on playing as the same person?

 

[ObserverStatus]

This raises an important question: should game developers capitulate to feminist demands for a more inclusive range of characters in their games? My immediate answer is a resounding NO. As a person who works in a creative role myself, I value artistic integrity and creative vision far more than any tenuous elements of fairness or inclusivity attached to a work. Creators should feel free to choose the characters that suit the story they want to tell, and not bow to any pressure to have a gender/race/sexuality/etc. quota in their cast list. The same goes for those characters' personalities: there ARE weak women in the world, just as there are strong women, and the same for men. Choosing characters that fit these roles in no way makes a broad statement about a gender as a whole, it's just a dramatic device. Can you imagine William Golding being told he had to include some female characters in Lord Of The Flies? It simply wouldn't work in the context of the story and world he was creating.

And while we might disagree with some creative decisions, ultimately it's the creator's work to do with what he will. Whether that work lives or dies in the court of public opinion is up to us. We can criticise it on its merits, but extrapolating that to making broad statements about the developer's worldview is totally speculative and ultimately fruitless, particularly when they give us more inclusive games and receive just as much, if not more scrutiny.

Well, I'm going to have to say I disagree, in no small part because your arguments against feminists speaking their minds sound a lot like the arguments BioWare made when they wanted people to stop complaining about Mass Effect 3's ridiculous ending. The way I see it, there aren't enough major developers out their for gamers to just give up and buy someone else's games when the developers are clearly doing their jobs wrong, and when they are, the customers have the right to call them out on it, so long as it doesn't become harassment. Some people may disagree with feminists and say that the boob plate isn't sexist, just like how some people think that the reapers murdering trillions of people every 50,000 years is a logical way to prevent organic lifeforms from fighting with synthetic lifeforms, but the naysayers have the right to speak their minds in the hopes that developers will get their acts together.

 

[QuietlyListening]

No.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist (to me, it sounds like white supremacists just what equality), I do want equal representation in our media. I want to play as a gay guy, a non sexualized woman, a trans-person, a person who at the start isn't sure of who they are but during the game (which is totally unrelated to the protagonists goal) finds themselves. (like playing Mass Effect but every so often they have a conversation about who or what they are into).

I am just bored as fuck of certain things in gaming, such has playing as a 20-40 year old white male (usually with brown hair). I am bored of skimpy armor or clothing in general on women. It's why when I can, I play as women in games (saints row and elder scrolls), then dress them up in NORMAL clothes ... in saints row, I had a woman that mainly wore a black business suit with saints colored high heels and accessories, she was womanly but didn't look like a whore!

I can't see how any kind of diversity is bad, why are you all so intent on playing as the same person?

Tough. You're a feminist. (But it's OK. That's a good thing!)

Also, speaking of Saint's Row, I think it's worth it to keep in mind that Steve Jaros actually welcomes feminist critique.

 

[Karthak]

"Reads OP". Jesus H. Christ, where to even begin? I'm really tired, so I'll let David Gaider speak for me:
http://www.cnet.com/news/the-risk-of-the-female-protagonist/

"Wright believes that the perception of risk is sadly misplaced. Rather than being worried about alienating the current perceived demographics, he said, developers should be concerned about alienating those who would like to see more diversity.

"AAA games are now so expensive to develop and launch, and must sell so many copies to break even, that it's of critical importance that they are as inclusive as possible and do not exclude large portions potential audience, especially when there are so many alternatives to choose from," he said. "In my view, it's more commercially risky to exclude the very significant female audience than it is to risk alienating some of the less progressive audience."

 

[kelstra]

Well, I'm going to have to say I disagree, in no small part because your arguments against feminists speaking their minds sound a lot like the arguments BioWare made when they wanted people to stop complaining about Mass Effect 3's ridiculous ending. The way I see it, there aren't enough major developers out their for gamers to just give up and buy someone else's games when the developers are clearly doing their jobs wrong, and when they are, the customers have the right to call them out on it, so long as it doesn't become harassment. Some people may disagree with feminists and say that the boob plate isn't sexist, just like how some people think that the reapers murdering trillions of people every 50,000 years is a logical way to prevent organic lifeforms from fighting with synthetic lifeforms, but the naysayers have the right to speak their minds in the hopes that developers will get their acts together.

I do tend to agree with ObserverStatus here. There seem to be in this thread a sad amount of defensive egotism claiming rights to an industry that they did not personally create and have been grognards lately to maintain an inflated position. This is a wide and varied community and has always been that way. Women have always been involved. Like foreigners, (Americans, Europeans, Asians, Africans, and all those others, what are they, Islanders), we are all in this industry, pull your heads out of your dark holes. You would have to be pretty blind to claim otherwise. Harassment and threats are never acceptable in a community and claiming that one persons standard of abuse must be acceptable for everyone is fractious and stupid. We do need to respect and act in accordance with the law. That being said, bad writing will always be bad, and 90% of everything is low ball tosh. You only need to read the reviews for this site to see that. Instead of actual characters many players are stuck with terrible scripting, artwork and pandering to a stereotype of the market which never really existed and doesn't exist now. But hey at least a proportion of the market will still buy it right, even if you dislike the characters, plot, gameplay and mechanics you will still play the game right. There is just a niggling feeling at the back of your skull that someone somewhere developing and designing it could have done a whole lot better, left the office once in a while, did some research and had enough passion to produce a stunning winner to join the other 10% of output. That being said thank Eris for tabletop games and role-playing. Because if you really want to maintain control to keep a game to a low status quo or broaden the script the tools are there. I picked up a roleplaying system the other day out of interest which was produced around a base of Indian culture. It surprisingly had more meat in it than the Last of Us, Tome Raider or Risen 3 combined. All of which could not fill the blood and iron requirements of my diet.

 

[Nieroshai]

First, warning, I am a woman, but I am not a feminist. However, I have friends that are and I do read some blogs written by them, and I do like to read up on some of the girl gaming sites to get different perspectives.

So I went to go look up Bioshock Infinite getting bad reviews, and The Last of Us bad reviews for the sexist angle by feminists because I hadn't heard of that much backlash. Well, none on the BI, and only some of Last of Us. It was kind of like my surprise over people saying feminists were in a frenzy over Saints Row IV, I hadn't heard that either. I was expecting something huge, I mean, the way you're speaking I was expecting some sort of huge movement in the gaming industry where women were speaking out against Elizabeth and Ellie.

For the most part all I saw was general irritation that we couldn't play as either person. And most did say "the story may have not fit the narrative, yes, but come on, you got a great female character right there, and we still can't play as her? Why are you teasing us this way?"

Most women that have issues in the gaming industry is just the fact that sometimes they'd like to have some narrative from a different perspective. We're not trying to "take over your hobby" since we need to possibly step off it. There's nothing wrong with creating some new story lines. Why not have Nintendo do a Mario story where Peach is the main character going out to save Mario? Hell, at least it would shake up the franchise a bit.

From a writers perspective, it's lazy story telling. They fall back on the same tropes over and over again, and that's where it comes down to. Yeah, of course you can have it be another dead female prostitute in LA Noire, but wouldn't it have been kind of interesting to find a male prostitute dead? For that time period, think of the story that might have set off. Think about all the twists and turns you could have had with that.

It's not only sexism, it's being lazy and complacent because people will still buy the games. Hell, I still buy the games. But I have to say, it would have been kind of fun to see what kind of trouble I could have gotten into playing as Elizabeth instead of just Booker.

This is why I like the term "Feminazi." True feminism is a push towards sexual equality, espoused by forward-thinking men as well as women. Feminazis are the female branch of the Entitlement Culture. I feel the OP is entirely reacting to current backlash, to have missed what you directly found.
As for Peach being a Main, I don't know if or when that'll happen again. Zelda having to draw the Master Sword because the Hero never appeared, and learning she had the spirit of the hero in her all along? That would be fun as well as an empowerment message that wouldn't stomp on the neck of the IP.

 

[IceStar100]

First, warning, I am a woman, but I am not a feminist. However, I have friends that are and I do read some blogs written by them, and I do like to read up on some of the girl gaming sites to get different perspectives.

So I went to go look up Bioshock Infinite getting bad reviews, and The Last of Us bad reviews for the sexist angle by feminists because I hadn't heard of that much backlash. Well, none on the BI, and only some of Last of Us. It was kind of like my surprise over people saying feminists were in a frenzy over Saints Row IV, I hadn't heard that either. I was expecting something huge, I mean, the way you're speaking I was expecting some sort of huge movement in the gaming industry where women were speaking out against Elizabeth and Ellie.

For the most part all I saw was general irritation that we couldn't play as either person. And most did say "the story may have not fit the narrative, yes, but come on, you got a great female character right there, and we still can't play as her? Why are you teasing us this way?"

Most women that have issues in the gaming industry is just the fact that sometimes they'd like to have some narrative from a different perspective. We're not trying to "take over your hobby" since we need to possibly step off it. There's nothing wrong with creating some new story lines. Why not have Nintendo do a Mario story where Peach is the main character going out to save Mario? Hell, at least it would shake up the franchise a bit.

From a writers perspective, it's lazy story telling. They fall back on the same tropes over and over again, and that's where it comes down to. Yeah, of course you can have it be another dead female prostitute in LA Noire, but wouldn't it have been kind of interesting to find a male prostitute dead? For that time period, think of the story that might have set off. Think about all the twists and turns you could have had with that.

It's not only sexism, it's being lazy and complacent because people will still buy the games. Hell, I still buy the games. But I have to say, it would have been kind of fun to see what kind of trouble I could have gotten into playing as Elizabeth instead of just Booker.

This is why I like the term "Feminazi." True feminism is a push towards sexual equality, espoused by forward-thinking men as well as women. Feminazis are the female branch of the Entitlement Culture. I feel the OP is entirely reacting to current backlash, to have missed what you directly found.
As for Peach being a Main, I don't know if or when that'll happen again. Zelda having to draw the Master Sword because the Hero never appeared, and learning she had the spirit of the hero in her all along? That would be fun as well as an empowerment message that wouldn't stomp on the neck of the IP.

That last part on Zelda yeah it would. Unless the undo all of skyword sword no one but LINK can draw the master sword. Kind of like it's DNA locked to him. Nothing really to do with the soul of a hero any more. Plus why use the Master sword why make her follow that path. You could have a whole new game. Which also make me wonder why make her follow like she some palate swap of Link. She has magic and the mind of a master strategist. Make her a hero in her own right. Think what they could do.

 

[omega 616]

No.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist (to me, it sounds like white supremacists just what equality), I do want equal representation in our media. I want to play as a gay guy, a non sexualized woman, a trans-person, a person who at the start isn't sure of who they are but during the game (which is totally unrelated to the protagonists goal) finds themselves. (like playing Mass Effect but every so often they have a conversation about who or what they are into).

I am just bored as fuck of certain things in gaming, such has playing as a 20-40 year old white male (usually with brown hair). I am bored of skimpy armor or clothing in general on women. It's why when I can, I play as women in games (saints row and elder scrolls), then dress them up in NORMAL clothes ... in saints row, I had a woman that mainly wore a black business suit with saints colored high heels and accessories, she was womanly but didn't look like a whore!

I can't see how any kind of diversity is bad, why are you all so intent on playing as the same person?

Tough. You're a feminist. (But it's OK. That's a good thing!)

Also, speaking of Saint's Row, I think it's worth it to keep in mind that Steve Jaros actually welcomes feminist critique.

Nope, I refuse that title ... despite what the old school definition is, there is a new definition of it and it's not for the equality for both sexes! It is the betterment of one over the other.

Women want equal pay to men but they don't want to pay for meals ... they want the saying "women and children first" to still apply but men have to ask women out.

Of course, not all women are like this or all feminists but if that is the public perception of feminism is, then no matter what the correct meaning is, feminism will be women over men.

It's not about the correct definition of the word, it's how people view the people who call themselves that.

Call me, some made up word like equalist or something but feminist is obviously comes from feminine AKA woman, so it's "for women" (not woman exclusive but "lets empower women"), I want nothing to do with that. I want people to be equal, not women ... I want trans people to be equal, gay people to be equal etc

 

[carnex]

I have heard of that slanted/loaded study several times, asked for study itself and didn't get the answer. I looked around the net, didn't find any study that would fit your description. Can you point me in direction of that study?

You'll have to wait until the next MRA assaults me with it. I don't keep it on hand because I'm not normally the one attempting to produce it. The British one frequently cited is the equivalent of the Klan releasing a study to the effect that white people are the most discriminated against, but there's more than one study used and they have different issues.

But since it's not my argument, I don't keep "men are raped more than women" studies around. Hell, I don't generally keep links to any study I find disingenuous, "my side" or otherwise.

So, that's a very elaborate no? It's not like anything you mentioned here for a reason why you don't want to discloses makes any sense in that context. It's not gonna wear out or change or whatever. This is exactly the type of response that makes people, me included, that it's actually imaginary, made up.

 

[Nieroshai]

First, warning, I am a woman, but I am not a feminist. However, I have friends that are and I do read some blogs written by them, and I do like to read up on some of the girl gaming sites to get different perspectives.

So I went to go look up Bioshock Infinite getting bad reviews, and The Last of Us bad reviews for the sexist angle by feminists because I hadn't heard of that much backlash. Well, none on the BI, and only some of Last of Us. It was kind of like my surprise over people saying feminists were in a frenzy over Saints Row IV, I hadn't heard that either. I was expecting something huge, I mean, the way you're speaking I was expecting some sort of huge movement in the gaming industry where women were speaking out against Elizabeth and Ellie.

For the most part all I saw was general irritation that we couldn't play as either person. And most did say "the story may have not fit the narrative, yes, but come on, you got a great female character right there, and we still can't play as her? Why are you teasing us this way?"

Most women that have issues in the gaming industry is just the fact that sometimes they'd like to have some narrative from a different perspective. We're not trying to "take over your hobby" since we need to possibly step off it. There's nothing wrong with creating some new story lines. Why not have Nintendo do a Mario story where Peach is the main character going out to save Mario? Hell, at least it would shake up the franchise a bit.

From a writers perspective, it's lazy story telling. They fall back on the same tropes over and over again, and that's where it comes down to. Yeah, of course you can have it be another dead female prostitute in LA Noire, but wouldn't it have been kind of interesting to find a male prostitute dead? For that time period, think of the story that might have set off. Think about all the twists and turns you could have had with that.

It's not only sexism, it's being lazy and complacent because people will still buy the games. Hell, I still buy the games. But I have to say, it would have been kind of fun to see what kind of trouble I could have gotten into playing as Elizabeth instead of just Booker.

This is why I like the term "Feminazi." True feminism is a push towards sexual equality, espoused by forward-thinking men as well as women. Feminazis are the female branch of the Entitlement Culture. I feel the OP is entirely reacting to current backlash, to have missed what you directly found.
As for Peach being a Main, I don't know if or when that'll happen again. Zelda having to draw the Master Sword because the Hero never appeared, and learning she had the spirit of the hero in her all along? That would be fun as well as an empowerment message that wouldn't stomp on the neck of the IP.

That last part on Zelda yeah it would. Unless the undo all of skyword sword no one but LINK can draw the master sword. Kind of like it's DNA locked to him. Nothing really to do with the soul of a hero any more. Plus why use the Master sword why make her follow that path. You could have a whole new game. Which also make me wonder why make her follow like she some palate swap of Link. She has magic and the mind of a master strategist. Make her a hero in her own right. Think what they could do.

There's that. Even then, I am NOT saying make her wear green and never speak, etc I'm saying there's plenty of reason to make her the hero. Also, the official Zelda canon is that canon changes every time a new installment comes out. They admitted that they nearly finish the game before even thinking about the story, and the situation would be that they made a female lead but the writers had to figure out what to do with her. And DNA? Do we have any direct confirmation that all Links are descended from the first one? Despite that being impossible? Zeldas are a direct line because it literally is a royal line of succession, but Link's ALWAYS been a reincarnation. In fact, Link from the Windwaker wasn't even supposed to be the hero, he was just lucky. Then there's Tetra, who turned white to inherit her princess-ness to "correct" her hereditary link to the first Zelda.

 

[Catrixa]

Oh boy.

This is gunna get buried under mountains of other conversations, but I'm going to continue mashing my fingers into some plastic like it isn't. So, members of the Escapist (or lurkers who have run into this thread), let's play a game! No worries, it's not that fun, so you don't have to tell me your score or anything. Now! Onto the game! The rules are: you can't look anything up, you have to remember things you've seen (not all that hard). Of all the controversies surrounding feminism, how many did you see at the source first? For example, a big feminist blogger talking about video games in a way that made everyone angry AFTER you read the blog? Now, how many controversies did you hear about AFTER they blew up and made everyone angry?

If you're in any way like me, most of these things you've seen after people have gone ragetastic all over them. I did not see the initial angry post about Zoe Quinn, nor did I ever see anything she had written about feminism. But I did see mouth-frothing posts about how she completely ruined gaming (isn't gaming getting completely ruined on an hourly basis now?) and how she was getting a boatload of death threats. Hell, I played Depression Quest one when it was a web game, said "yup, this game is depressing, depression sucks," saw it come out on Steam, and completely forgot about it until all of this controversy came about. Hell, I didn't even know about Feminist Frequency until people were sending Anita death threats. Are we seriously worried about people whose only notable actions have been stating their opinions on stuff? I mean, if we want to talk about getting rid of feminists because everyone in gaming is too immature to comprehend other people having thoughts they may not share, let's talk about that. I think the fact that this might be the problem a bigger issue than feminists existing, but whatever.

Let's play another game. Find a blog about women in gaming. Now, replace all instances where it talks about poor representation of women with bad voice acting, or clunky controls, or convoluted level design. Does the blog now say "we should get rid of gaming entirely, because the developers can't seem to include working controls?" if so, quit getting your blogs from tumblr. Does your real (seriously, tumblr is not "all of feminism ever," if you pretend it is, please stop. The WBC is not all of Christianity, either) blog now say something like, "voice acting in gaming could really use some fine-tuning"? If someone disagreed with this article about voice acting, do you think it would be reasonable for the author of it to get hacked, doxxed, have their life and family threatened, or have every gaming site up in arms about it? If no, what is it about women that gets people so crazy? We can criticize gameplay, story, characters, voice acting, music loadouts, level-up sounds, enemy types, controls, menus, I could go on forever, but if we say a thing about diversity, suddenly we're just creating games by committee, and they're all about ponies or something. Like that isn't happening with bland shooters already anyway ('cept these ones are all about the same muscle guy shooting brown-colored enemies through some kind of scope pushed up his nose).

...Can we just go back to arguing about how the latest Call of Duty is ruining gaming with its brown levels and overpriced map packs? I'm still mad about that, honestly.

 

[Maphysto]

If you think feminists need to "step off" of anything, you're probably part of the problem.

 

[Phasmal]

Women want equal pay to men but they don't want to pay for meals ... they want the saying "women and children first" to still apply but men have to ask women out.

Of course, not all women are like this or all feminists but if that is the public perception of feminism is, then no matter what the correct meaning is, feminism will be women over men.

I also have it on good authority that girls don't like boys.
Girls like cars and money.

Sorry, I know you added a little qualifier but these types of posts are always funny to me. They always sound like some people only know women and men who live in Stereotopia.

I've got to stop popping into threads just to add bad jokes. But it's so fun. :'(

OT: Still no. Gaming is just going through a bit of a weird phase. I'm hoping it'll come out decently on the other side, and maybe we can stop assuming stuff about people. I mean, I try not to assume that everyone against greater diversity is a reactionary gatekeeper who just wants to try and cling to some perceived ownership of our collective hobby.

 

[mecegirl]

Hey, if it gets more non-straight white males* in games, then sure they can stay as long as the like (although I'm not sure how one would go about suddenly "getting rid of them")

*[sub]I say this as a straight, white male, by the way. I just want something a little different[/sub]

Anyway, I've not heard of these "feminist demands" of which you speak. Were they etched in stone by Anita Sarkeesian, by any chance?

This is directed at everyone who shares the opinion, not just you but:
"Hey, if it gets more non-straight white males* in games, then sure they can stay as long as they like"
Why do we want this?
I mean sure, its not a bad thing if the character is different but I can't name a single game where the characters sexuality, gender or race would change a bloody thing.
Well except maybe gender, but it normally wouldn't change the game itself in any meaningful way.

A game is not going to be held up or even majorly effected by any of these factors. I'd prefer they put effort into the personality/character of the protag rather than what they look like.
Or hell, heres an idea; The gameplay!

Honestly, for myself, I'm just sick of seeing the same 20-30 year old white guy with (probably) brown hair.

For those that aren't "the norm", I imagine it will be nice for them to have some representation. I have no idea how that would feel obviously, so perhaps someone who isn't a straight white male would be able to explain better.

It depends on who's asking. As someone who is black and female the chances of ever seeing a black women in games, yet alone as a protagonist is at an all time high of 5% in the history of ever. So me personally, I've accepted this (sadly) and don't even bother trying to argue. Just advocating for women protags in general is tiring enough. A black one? Fat chance.

Of course if I did see one, man oh man would I be so fucking happy....but yeah...not happening any time soon.

Ditto to this... I have to say that with most media I watch, as a black female, its either or. You get used to seeing any diversity either be a black man, or a white woman. Anything else is a big(but welcome) surprise.