Is it time for feminists to step off our hobby?

[Mandalore_15]

snip

OMG this so much. I wish I was as articulate as you.

Hope you don't mind me linking your post to explain my position in other threads and forums.

Not at all. I'm glad you liked it, most people have reacted pretty badly I'm afraid.

 

[thethird0611]

snip

Well I didn't mean to imply that there couldn't be, that was a fault of my own.

My big point about GG being called Misogynist is that they are labeling everyone under the label as it, which is annoying. I should of been more specific in my example though. Those actions do not make you a misogynist until you got after a woman because she is a woman, and you hate her.

God, I have stopped playing as much DotA as I used to. I cant stand the amount of negativity from there, plus GG, plus just everywhere else at the moment. And screwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww techies.

 

[carnex]

I won't comment on voice for men radio itself. However, I will ask you, if female gender ideologues can have their echo chambers shouldn't male gender ideologues have their echo chambers. Isn't that basically the equality of genders?

Did I say they couldn't? Did I say "shut down avoiceformen"?

I did make fun of them, a bit, in implying they were a pack of hateful idiots who existed for the sole purpose of shouting nonsense in each other's ears, but that's not censoring them, is it?

Unless we're back to "shaming" again, and you fear the population of avoiceformen is going to enlist for war and die in a trench somewhere because I had a chuckle at them.

And you are right to correct me. The tone and meaning can be hard to pass on in written text and it looks like I miss attributed some to your words. My apologies.

 

[AkaDad]

snip

Except the hypocritical thing is, those people insulting #gamergate and men, get away with it. Their side takes no flak for it.

Any idiot on our side who says something that we condemn... OH, THE MOVEMENT IS MISOGYNIST. IT HATES WOMEN.

Want your mind blown? As an egalitarian I want more games for everyone as well as less corruption and more openness in gaming press.

The big thing is, it seems as long as your a man, you don't get to have a say in any of these discussions and are automatically labeled a misogynist (which is the hatred of women, which very few people qualify for). Or, if you do try to say something, you get insulted with all of those insults there.

I am not saying harassment is ok. I am not saying calling someone a misogynist is ok (because honestly, it is just like the word bigot, it is just there to slander someone and try to silence them), I do agree in discussing this in a way that both sides can say their points without trying to discredit someone with a false label.

This all started when a disgruntled boyfriend came out and publicly slut-shamed Zoe Quinn. Then she got accused of slutting around for favorable reviews. We get an epic thread with Zoe Quinn in the title and she gets mentioned countless times. Then nobody produces hard evidence of their accusations, all of a sudden this isn't really about Zoe Quinn. That's why the M word was used by some.

I'm a man, you're a man and we're both having our say. Nobody is being censored or oppressed. I'm not calling anyone a misogynist. People can say bigoted things, and when people point it out, they're not being silenced. People can espouse bigotry all day long, but if you don't like being called a bigot then don't say bigoted things.

My whole point has been if people discuss things in a certain way, people are going to perceive you in a certain way. If people don't want to reflect on what I'm saying, that's their prerogative.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your first paragraph is wrong, and it is looking at it from a biased view.

The ex made up a post about what happened during their relationship. This included emotional abuse from ZQ, so I don't fault him from wanting to get it off his chest. She manipulated him, cheated on him, and, in her own definition, 'raped' him. The only thing that people were pissed at was the cheating, and not because of the infidelity, it was because of who it was. A journalist, her boss, and multiple people on panels that had given awards to her.

This movement passed her quickly when more corruption in journalism started to form. She is part of the system that #GG is fighting against, but she isn't the main point.

No, you aren't calling anyone a misogynist, but you are making BS definitions up to be able to call people Misogynist, who actually don't hate women. Misogyny is HATING women. HATING. If you don't like being called out that your using the word wrong, then don't use the word wrong. (Did I do that right? Since you said the same thing about bigotry).

But again, the main push of people are discussing it civily, but we are getting slandered as misogynist. The press are running a smear campaign, and they are being painted as the protectors of games and feminism, while all of those insults get a free pass.

Misogyny

noun
1.
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

It's not just about hating. We probably need a better word for the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of feminist women.

Did people slut-shame Zoe? Yes. Did people accuse her of having sex for favorable reviews? Yes. Did people find hard evidence of a quid pro quo? No. Did people then say it really wasn't about Zoe? Yes.

I guess we're at an impasse.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

My big point about GG being called Misogynist is that they are labeling everyone under the label as it, which is annoying. I should of been more specific in my example though. Those actions do not make you a misogynist until you got after a woman because she is a woman, and you hate her.

Well, people are lazy, aren't they? If you see a person say X bad thing, and that person associates with Y movement, it's pretty common to hear someone say "All of Y does X". We see it all the time. You'll see it in the OP of this very thread.

God, I have stopped playing as much DotA as I used to. I cant stand the amount of negativity from there...

My favorite is when some poor fucker goes hard support, gets dicked on in lane and ends up 0-2 or something, and some thundering **** demands that he get reported.

MOBAs are turning me into a misanthrope.

 

[Grahav]

-snip-

I will tell you this much, and this is one of those things that can't be stressed enough. Many use word misogyny because it has power to shame. But just like many other words it's used to shame where it has no place.

I can insult woman all day with gender insults and not fall under the category of misogyny if I have reason OTHER than her gender to insult her. Maybe I'm insulting her because I'm racist and she happens to be of race I'm racist towards. Maybe she crashed my car. Maybe we are fighting over last console in store.

Misogyny is term meant to specifically mean that someone has a hate or intense distrust that resembles hate towards women based on their gender alone or predominantly. Nothing else.

I really didn't need a lesson on the definition of misogyny.

When people keep insulting, attacking, and basically lying about black people they get called racist.

When people keep insulting, attacking, and basically lying about Jews they get called anti-semetic.

When people keep insulting, attacking, and basically lying about women and their beliefs, they get called sexist or misogynistic.

If people don't like that, then I suggest people stop doing it.

Actually, you really do need a lesson. We have seen through this last controversy that many people, men specifically, have pushed more for women in game and equality than the 'Media Press'.

Are you gonna call NeoGAF racist, since when he was told by a woman that she was #nothisshield, that he insulted her saying her vagina was huge?

Are you going to call many of the people who compare male gamers to ISIS misandrist? Since that is exactly what you are saying about men to women.

No. Your not. Because you have it in your mind that 'Misogyny' fits, when it really doesn't. Sexist barely even fits.

I am now going to start calling everyone who calls me a misogynist a misandrist, because they are lieing about men and our beliefs, and they get called sexist or misandrist.

Why would I call someone a racist for insulting someone's vagina? That makes no sense.

As far I know 1 person stupidly compared gamers to ISIS, not many people. I, as a feminist, said it was stupid.

My consistency, let me show you it.

If there are women out there constantly insulting, attacking, and lying about men, not just one-off stupidity, then yes, people are going to think they're misandrists, especially if they just recently became a site member and that's all they did.

That was a typo, I mean sexist. Hopefully that was a little obvious.

You want some of the insults that have been flung at the gamergate people though? And of course, this isn't all of them.

Terrorists (http://gamesnosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/devin.jpg)

Pathetic (http://gamesnosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/freelance-dev.jpg)

Racist (http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/image/96832821253)

Nerds (http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/image/96824882816)

Parasites (http://i.imgur.com/YYx4VM3.png)

Worthless (http://38.media.tumblr.com/3f7e5d258c3590d92e21a91c941cfc48/tumblr_nbel0pMV3y1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Deserving death (http://31.media.tumblr.com/05ce05fa39964870e51b029b76eb4453/tumblr_nbdot0XTYQ1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Confederates, Neo-NAZIs (https://twitter.com/devincf/status/509120907000823808)

Misogynists (http://33.media.tumblr.com/33f424d2dca74196a76641c295295c24/tumblr_nbgypnmym01tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Drug users (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwYnLcPCcAExa7T.png:large)

Dweebs (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwjyo6TIgAM-3xN.jpg:large)

NAZIs (http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/image/96981951159)

Subhuman (http://i.gyazo.com/af9f579b915579b16382885ee071a8a6.png)

Sociopaths (http://31.media.tumblr.com/6b838763c2a04c7356eb12aac086d2d4/tumblr_nbdfr6ZW3f1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Scum (http://i.imgur.com/rLT5hMG.png)

Morons (http://33.media.tumblr.com/839ef95775ce258ea9b69e3092b74c13/tumblr_nbaq6t5l8a1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Fat (http://38.media.tumblr.com/c006886fc38d780246bb0541e2158026/tumblr_nbaprdoOzq1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Nonexistent (http://38.media.tumblr.com/4f6b44d2d02dcf5637449c43f59081f0/tumblr_nbaraiM5CK1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Hateful (http://38.media.tumblr.com/04d047edde4912a0ae1d08d5d34eb073/tumblr_nbavqcjInC1tkhroeo1_1280.jpg)

Autistic (http://38.media.tumblr.com/070bec77b1eb20d7127eeb53e24cd739/tumblr_nb9o4uaZLh1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Deserving violence (http://media.tumblr.com/5fcf2906cbd6a4f0a2d0d118938a6647/tumblr_inline_nb9hwmg56l1t04v2j.png)

Bullies (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/821/909/564.png)

But you know, #gamergate people who are pushing for the actual goals, such as less corruption and more openness, say that they idiots who are harassing others are stupid, but we are called Misogynist! Funny hypocrisy.

Oh look, a list of stupid comments. That's like a typical day at 4chan. If I were to produce a list of stupid comments, verbal abuse, sexual harassment, and death threats that gamers have dished out over a decade or so, it would make the Zoe Quinn thread look like an office memo.

Want your mind blown? As a feminist and gamer, one of my goals is to see more openness and no corruption in gaming.

Okay, fair.

What about games like Dead or Alive, Dragon's Crown and the people who play them? What do you think?

 

[thethird0611]

snip

Except the hypocritical thing is, those people insulting #gamergate and men, get away with it. Their side takes no flak for it.

Any idiot on our side who says something that we condemn... OH, THE MOVEMENT IS MISOGYNIST. IT HATES WOMEN.

Want your mind blown? As an egalitarian I want more games for everyone as well as less corruption and more openness in gaming press.

The big thing is, it seems as long as your a man, you don't get to have a say in any of these discussions and are automatically labeled a misogynist (which is the hatred of women, which very few people qualify for). Or, if you do try to say something, you get insulted with all of those insults there.

I am not saying harassment is ok. I am not saying calling someone a misogynist is ok (because honestly, it is just like the word bigot, it is just there to slander someone and try to silence them), I do agree in discussing this in a way that both sides can say their points without trying to discredit someone with a false label.

This all started when a disgruntled boyfriend came out and publicly slut-shamed Zoe Quinn. Then she got accused of slutting around for favorable reviews. We get an epic thread with Zoe Quinn in the title and she gets mentioned countless times. Then nobody produces hard evidence of their accusations, all of a sudden this isn't really about Zoe Quinn. That's why the M word was used by some.

I'm a man, you're a man and we're both having our say. Nobody is being censored or oppressed. I'm not calling anyone a misogynist. People can say bigoted things, and when people point it out, they're not being silenced. People can espouse bigotry all day long, but if you don't like being called a bigot then don't say bigoted things.

My whole point has been if people discuss things in a certain way, people are going to perceive you in a certain way. If people don't want to reflect on what I'm saying, that's their prerogative.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your first paragraph is wrong, and it is looking at it from a biased view.

The ex made up a post about what happened during their relationship. This included emotional abuse from ZQ, so I don't fault him from wanting to get it off his chest. She manipulated him, cheated on him, and, in her own definition, 'raped' him. The only thing that people were pissed at was the cheating, and not because of the infidelity, it was because of who it was. A journalist, her boss, and multiple people on panels that had given awards to her.

This movement passed her quickly when more corruption in journalism started to form. She is part of the system that #GG is fighting against, but she isn't the main point.

No, you aren't calling anyone a misogynist, but you are making BS definitions up to be able to call people Misogynist, who actually don't hate women. Misogyny is HATING women. HATING. If you don't like being called out that your using the word wrong, then don't use the word wrong. (Did I do that right? Since you said the same thing about bigotry).

But again, the main push of people are discussing it civily, but we are getting slandered as misogynist. The press are running a smear campaign, and they are being painted as the protectors of games and feminism, while all of those insults get a free pass.

Misogyny

noun
1.
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

It's not just about hating. We probably need a better word for the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of feminist women.

Did people slut-shame Zoe? Yes. Did people accuse her of having sex for favorable reviews? Yes. Did people find hard evidence of a quid pro quo? No. Did people then say it really wasn't about Zoe? Yes.

I guess we're at an impasse.

No, it is not of 'Feminist Women', it is of women. You can mistrust feminist women because you distrust feminist. Hell, your calling a ton of women who are with #GG who disagree and mistrust feminist women in journalist, misogynist. There is a shit ton about this Social Justice push that is not agreed upon by a ton of people. It seems to have a huge intersection with third wave feminism also. So yeah, you can not like feminism and still not be a misogynist.

A few people slut shamed her, the ones that are told to shut up and stop harassing. Yes, people accused her. Nothing came from Nathan Grayson, but we can still look at the indie awards she got and the people on the panel that she slept with. Did people find stuff that came from her being a catalyst that made her irrelevant? Yes.

You know, there is a moderate position here, but if you keep trying to say, "Everything GG does is Misogynist and is to slut shame Women", then you havent been in the loop for 2 weeks. People are trying to get others to stop talking about ZQ because she -continuously- tries to make it about her, while saying, "I wish I could get past this".

 

[thethird0611]

My big point about GG being called Misogynist is that they are labeling everyone under the label as it, which is annoying. I should of been more specific in my example though. Those actions do not make you a misogynist until you got after a woman because she is a woman, and you hate her.

Well, people are lazy, aren't they? If you see a person say X bad thing, and that person associates with Y movement, it's pretty common to hear someone say "All of Y does X". We see it all the time. You'll see it in the OP of this very thread.

God, I have stopped playing as much DotA as I used to. I cant stand the amount of negativity from there...

My favorite is when some poor fucker goes hard support, gets dicked on in lane and ends up 0-2 or something, and some thundering **** demands that he get reported.

MOBAs are turning me into a misanthrope.

Yep, I do agree, this who controversy has shown how bad it is. That is why I really feel people need to step off those loaded words, because they never help anything.

And yeah.... I can't support in DotA because of that. Hell, I went 6-12 as a 5 support while the 4 support went 2-12, and he trash talked me for not doing well.

Like what in the fuck man. Our carries are doing great, but you haven't bought a single pack of wards. -.-

 

[AkaDad]

snip

Except the hypocritical thing is, those people insulting #gamergate and men, get away with it. Their side takes no flak for it.

Any idiot on our side who says something that we condemn... OH, THE MOVEMENT IS MISOGYNIST. IT HATES WOMEN.

Want your mind blown? As an egalitarian I want more games for everyone as well as less corruption and more openness in gaming press.

The big thing is, it seems as long as your a man, you don't get to have a say in any of these discussions and are automatically labeled a misogynist (which is the hatred of women, which very few people qualify for). Or, if you do try to say something, you get insulted with all of those insults there.

I am not saying harassment is ok. I am not saying calling someone a misogynist is ok (because honestly, it is just like the word bigot, it is just there to slander someone and try to silence them), I do agree in discussing this in a way that both sides can say their points without trying to discredit someone with a false label.

This all started when a disgruntled boyfriend came out and publicly slut-shamed Zoe Quinn. Then she got accused of slutting around for favorable reviews. We get an epic thread with Zoe Quinn in the title and she gets mentioned countless times. Then nobody produces hard evidence of their accusations, all of a sudden this isn't really about Zoe Quinn. That's why the M word was used by some.

I'm a man, you're a man and we're both having our say. Nobody is being censored or oppressed. I'm not calling anyone a misogynist. People can say bigoted things, and when people point it out, they're not being silenced. People can espouse bigotry all day long, but if you don't like being called a bigot then don't say bigoted things.

My whole point has been if people discuss things in a certain way, people are going to perceive you in a certain way. If people don't want to reflect on what I'm saying, that's their prerogative.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your first paragraph is wrong, and it is looking at it from a biased view.

The ex made up a post about what happened during their relationship. This included emotional abuse from ZQ, so I don't fault him from wanting to get it off his chest. She manipulated him, cheated on him, and, in her own definition, 'raped' him. The only thing that people were pissed at was the cheating, and not because of the infidelity, it was because of who it was. A journalist, her boss, and multiple people on panels that had given awards to her.

This movement passed her quickly when more corruption in journalism started to form. She is part of the system that #GG is fighting against, but she isn't the main point.

No, you aren't calling anyone a misogynist, but you are making BS definitions up to be able to call people Misogynist, who actually don't hate women. Misogyny is HATING women. HATING. If you don't like being called out that your using the word wrong, then don't use the word wrong. (Did I do that right? Since you said the same thing about bigotry).

But again, the main push of people are discussing it civily, but we are getting slandered as misogynist. The press are running a smear campaign, and they are being painted as the protectors of games and feminism, while all of those insults get a free pass.

Misogyny

noun
1.
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

It's not just about hating. We probably need a better word for the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of feminist women.

Did people slut-shame Zoe? Yes. Did people accuse her of having sex for favorable reviews? Yes. Did people find hard evidence of a quid pro quo? No. Did people then say it really wasn't about Zoe? Yes.

I guess we're at an impasse.

No, it is not of 'Feminist Women', it is of women. You can mistrust feminist women because you distrust feminist. Hell, your calling a ton of women who are with #GG who disagree and mistrust feminist women in journalist, misogynist. There is a shit ton about this Social Justice push that is not agreed upon by a ton of people. It seems to have a huge intersection with third wave feminism also. So yeah, you can not like feminism and still not be a misogynist.

A few people slut shamed her, the ones that are told to shut up and stop harassing. Yes, people accused her. Nothing came from Nathan Grayson, but we can still look at the indie awards she got and the people on the panel that she slept with. Did people find stuff that came from her being a catalyst that made her irrelevant? Yes.

You know, there is a moderate position here, but if you keep trying to say, "Everything GG does is Misogynist and is to slut shame Women", then you havent been in the loop for 2 weeks. People are trying to get others to stop talking about ZQ because she -continuously- tries to make it about her, while saying, "I wish I could get past this".

You're either not reading what I've said or you're intentionally ignoring my words. You just accused me of calling people misogynists when I clearly haven't.

I'm done conversing with you on this topic.

 

[R0guy]

And wasn't she the only character to appear in underwear in the entire original trilogy?

Ha, wrong! Luke is seen floating in a tank, healing injuries on Hoth.

Obviously, not the same league as strangling Jabba, but still

Argh, can't believe I forgot about that! Touché.

I'm showing you example after example of really good male-centric fiction which has been positively influenced by feminist thought without becoming feminist. This has made fiction better.

I'm still waiting for proof on that (aside from that being your opinion). I'm also still waiting on how you define "feminism" and "inclusiveness". I shot your "gamers are bored of Mario games" argument to shit and now you have nothing to say.

I have no idea who is arguing what in your little tete a tete there, and I can't be assed to go back and find out, but on the subject of the Bechdel test, it is also my anecdotal experience that no one takes it seriously.

Then people shouldn't link to articles that do take the Bechdel test seriously and call it "brilliant". Or even consider the Bechdel test as a good way to take "room temperature". http://www.slashfilm.com/what-fast-furious-6-could-teach-star-trek-into-darkness-about-half-naked-women/

 

[thethird0611]

snip

Except the hypocritical thing is, those people insulting #gamergate and men, get away with it. Their side takes no flak for it.

Any idiot on our side who says something that we condemn... OH, THE MOVEMENT IS MISOGYNIST. IT HATES WOMEN.

Want your mind blown? As an egalitarian I want more games for everyone as well as less corruption and more openness in gaming press.

The big thing is, it seems as long as your a man, you don't get to have a say in any of these discussions and are automatically labeled a misogynist (which is the hatred of women, which very few people qualify for). Or, if you do try to say something, you get insulted with all of those insults there.

I am not saying harassment is ok. I am not saying calling someone a misogynist is ok (because honestly, it is just like the word bigot, it is just there to slander someone and try to silence them), I do agree in discussing this in a way that both sides can say their points without trying to discredit someone with a false label.

This all started when a disgruntled boyfriend came out and publicly slut-shamed Zoe Quinn. Then she got accused of slutting around for favorable reviews. We get an epic thread with Zoe Quinn in the title and she gets mentioned countless times. Then nobody produces hard evidence of their accusations, all of a sudden this isn't really about Zoe Quinn. That's why the M word was used by some.

I'm a man, you're a man and we're both having our say. Nobody is being censored or oppressed. I'm not calling anyone a misogynist. People can say bigoted things, and when people point it out, they're not being silenced. People can espouse bigotry all day long, but if you don't like being called a bigot then don't say bigoted things.

My whole point has been if people discuss things in a certain way, people are going to perceive you in a certain way. If people don't want to reflect on what I'm saying, that's their prerogative.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your first paragraph is wrong, and it is looking at it from a biased view.

The ex made up a post about what happened during their relationship. This included emotional abuse from ZQ, so I don't fault him from wanting to get it off his chest. She manipulated him, cheated on him, and, in her own definition, 'raped' him. The only thing that people were pissed at was the cheating, and not because of the infidelity, it was because of who it was. A journalist, her boss, and multiple people on panels that had given awards to her.

This movement passed her quickly when more corruption in journalism started to form. She is part of the system that #GG is fighting against, but she isn't the main point.

No, you aren't calling anyone a misogynist, but you are making BS definitions up to be able to call people Misogynist, who actually don't hate women. Misogyny is HATING women. HATING. If you don't like being called out that your using the word wrong, then don't use the word wrong. (Did I do that right? Since you said the same thing about bigotry).

But again, the main push of people are discussing it civily, but we are getting slandered as misogynist. The press are running a smear campaign, and they are being painted as the protectors of games and feminism, while all of those insults get a free pass.

Misogyny

noun
1.
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

It's not just about hating. We probably need a better word for the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of feminist women.

Did people slut-shame Zoe? Yes. Did people accuse her of having sex for favorable reviews? Yes. Did people find hard evidence of a quid pro quo? No. Did people then say it really wasn't about Zoe? Yes.

I guess we're at an impasse.

No, it is not of 'Feminist Women', it is of women. You can mistrust feminist women because you distrust feminist. Hell, your calling a ton of women who are with #GG who disagree and mistrust feminist women in journalist, misogynist. There is a shit ton about this Social Justice push that is not agreed upon by a ton of people. It seems to have a huge intersection with third wave feminism also. So yeah, you can not like feminism and still not be a misogynist.

A few people slut shamed her, the ones that are told to shut up and stop harassing. Yes, people accused her. Nothing came from Nathan Grayson, but we can still look at the indie awards she got and the people on the panel that she slept with. Did people find stuff that came from her being a catalyst that made her irrelevant? Yes.

You know, there is a moderate position here, but if you keep trying to say, "Everything GG does is Misogynist and is to slut shame Women", then you havent been in the loop for 2 weeks. People are trying to get others to stop talking about ZQ because she -continuously- tries to make it about her, while saying, "I wish I could get past this".

You're either not reading what I've said or you're intentionally ignoring my words. You just accused me of calling people misogynists when I clearly haven't.

I'm done conversing with you on this topic.

You said this...

" We probably need a better word for the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of feminist women."

So your going to call them misogynist then. There is no need for a word of, "I don't like feminism". Its your call if you want to step out of the conversation, but honestly, leave those loaded words out of conversations where they don't belong. It will never be a good thing to call someone a misogynist because they don't like feminism.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Then people shouldn't link to articles that do take the Bechdel test seriously and call it "brilliant". Or even consider the Bechdel test as a good way to take "room temperature". http://www.slashfilm.com/what-fast-furious-6-could-teach-star-trek-into-darkness-about-half-naked-women/

Ah, slashfilm.com. Ever the repository of cutting edge journalism.

 

[AkaDad]

-snip-

I will tell you this much, and this is one of those things that can't be stressed enough. Many use word misogyny because it has power to shame. But just like many other words it's used to shame where it has no place.

I can insult woman all day with gender insults and not fall under the category of misogyny if I have reason OTHER than her gender to insult her. Maybe I'm insulting her because I'm racist and she happens to be of race I'm racist towards. Maybe she crashed my car. Maybe we are fighting over last console in store.

Misogyny is term meant to specifically mean that someone has a hate or intense distrust that resembles hate towards women based on their gender alone or predominantly. Nothing else.

I really didn't need a lesson on the definition of misogyny.

When people keep insulting, attacking, and basically lying about black people they get called racist.

When people keep insulting, attacking, and basically lying about Jews they get called anti-semetic.

When people keep insulting, attacking, and basically lying about women and their beliefs, they get called sexist or misogynistic.

If people don't like that, then I suggest people stop doing it.

Actually, you really do need a lesson. We have seen through this last controversy that many people, men specifically, have pushed more for women in game and equality than the 'Media Press'.

Are you gonna call NeoGAF racist, since when he was told by a woman that she was #nothisshield, that he insulted her saying her vagina was huge?

Are you going to call many of the people who compare male gamers to ISIS misandrist? Since that is exactly what you are saying about men to women.

No. Your not. Because you have it in your mind that 'Misogyny' fits, when it really doesn't. Sexist barely even fits.

I am now going to start calling everyone who calls me a misogynist a misandrist, because they are lieing about men and our beliefs, and they get called sexist or misandrist.

Why would I call someone a racist for insulting someone's vagina? That makes no sense.

As far I know 1 person stupidly compared gamers to ISIS, not many people. I, as a feminist, said it was stupid.

My consistency, let me show you it.

If there are women out there constantly insulting, attacking, and lying about men, not just one-off stupidity, then yes, people are going to think they're misandrists, especially if they just recently became a site member and that's all they did.

That was a typo, I mean sexist. Hopefully that was a little obvious.

You want some of the insults that have been flung at the gamergate people though? And of course, this isn't all of them.

Terrorists (http://gamesnosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/devin.jpg)

Pathetic (http://gamesnosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/freelance-dev.jpg)

Racist (http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/image/96832821253)

Nerds (http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/image/96824882816)

Parasites (http://i.imgur.com/YYx4VM3.png)

Worthless (http://38.media.tumblr.com/3f7e5d258c3590d92e21a91c941cfc48/tumblr_nbel0pMV3y1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Deserving death (http://31.media.tumblr.com/05ce05fa39964870e51b029b76eb4453/tumblr_nbdot0XTYQ1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Confederates, Neo-NAZIs (https://twitter.com/devincf/status/509120907000823808)

Misogynists (http://33.media.tumblr.com/33f424d2dca74196a76641c295295c24/tumblr_nbgypnmym01tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Drug users (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwYnLcPCcAExa7T.png:large)

Dweebs (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bwjyo6TIgAM-3xN.jpg:large)

NAZIs (http://gamergateharrassment.tumblr.com/image/96981951159)

Subhuman (http://i.gyazo.com/af9f579b915579b16382885ee071a8a6.png)

Sociopaths (http://31.media.tumblr.com/6b838763c2a04c7356eb12aac086d2d4/tumblr_nbdfr6ZW3f1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Scum (http://i.imgur.com/rLT5hMG.png)

Morons (http://33.media.tumblr.com/839ef95775ce258ea9b69e3092b74c13/tumblr_nbaq6t5l8a1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Fat (http://38.media.tumblr.com/c006886fc38d780246bb0541e2158026/tumblr_nbaprdoOzq1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Nonexistent (http://38.media.tumblr.com/4f6b44d2d02dcf5637449c43f59081f0/tumblr_nbaraiM5CK1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Hateful (http://38.media.tumblr.com/04d047edde4912a0ae1d08d5d34eb073/tumblr_nbavqcjInC1tkhroeo1_1280.jpg)

Autistic (http://38.media.tumblr.com/070bec77b1eb20d7127eeb53e24cd739/tumblr_nb9o4uaZLh1tkhroeo1_1280.png)

Deserving violence (http://media.tumblr.com/5fcf2906cbd6a4f0a2d0d118938a6647/tumblr_inline_nb9hwmg56l1t04v2j.png)

Bullies (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/821/909/564.png)

But you know, #gamergate people who are pushing for the actual goals, such as less corruption and more openness, say that they idiots who are harassing others are stupid, but we are called Misogynist! Funny hypocrisy.

Oh look, a list of stupid comments. That's like a typical day at 4chan. If I were to produce a list of stupid comments, verbal abuse, sexual harassment, and death threats that gamers have dished out over a decade or so, it would make the Zoe Quinn thread look like an office memo.

Want your mind blown? As a feminist and gamer, one of my goals is to see more openness and no corruption in gaming.

Okay, fair.

What about games like Dead or Alive, Dragon's Crown and the people who play them? What do you think?

I've never played those games, but as general statement, I'd say people should play the games they like.

I have to leave, but if you have more specifics questions, I'll respond to them later tonight.

 

[thethird0611]

Feminists? No.

I don't believe that gaming and fun, and feminism are mutually exclusive. Gaming is a huge ocean, and there's plenty of room for a variety of games catering to a variety of interests and beliefs. Becoming more inclusive won't result in our hobby and our fun being taken away.

Feminazis? Yes. But they need to step off a variety of things, namely feminism.

The people who are intent on demonizing men, and see sexism everywhere, except within. The people who actually are out to take away not just our, but everyone's fun.

Frankly, if a person wants to kill or oppress large quantities of the population in the name of an ideology, then a portmanteau of said ideology and "nazi" seems like the perfect descriptor of their branch of said ideology.

When you use the term "feminazi" you're saying that the feminists, who want women to achieve social, economic, and political equality, want to wipe out out the male race. It's extremely hyperbolic and utterly absurd.

Edit: As a white male, I certainly wouldn't be part of group that wanted to wipe my kind off the map.

I think you need to re-read my post. Particularly the parts where I define what a "Feminazi" is, and make the (I had hoped) clear distinction between it and a rational, level-headed feminist. It worries me immensely that I go out of my way to make the distinction, but people still assume I'm lumping everyone together.

That word was coined by a known racist and sexist. Anyone who uses that incredibly insulting and hyperbolic word shouldn't be taken seriously. As soon as I see that word I stop reading and move on.

Don't you think that is exactly how people who are called misogynist feel? Since it wasn't coined by a racist or sexist (which the person who did wasn't, they were just republican who some liberals like to slander), but it was made popular by people who want to insult and belittle people.

As soon as I see 'Misogynist' or 'Bigot' or any other loaded word, I stop reading and move on, because it has no value to it.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Every single criticism of gamers and gamergate I see here is a MASSIVE strawman about misogynerds not wanting girls in their club house.

Massive? Are you sure you want to say that?

The original post talks about feminists stepping off games. To claim there is a large group of "misogynerds" who wants games to be boys only isn't a strawman. It is backed up by evidence.

Oh my, never knew that people who have a problem with feminism's bullying tactics and its often holier than thou followers are apparently both misogynists aka HATE WOMEN and nerds. Your post sounds awfully like the strawman DM Gray was talking about.

And your post proves I'm 100% right. There's some serious rage issues within the gamer community towards women, especially those that they perceive as feminists.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Don't you think that is exactly how people who are called misogynist feel? Since it wasn't coined by a racist or sexist (which the person who did wasn't, they were just republican who some liberals like to slander)...

What!? You can't possibly think Rush Limbaugh isn't racist and sexist.

 

[Guerilla]

Every single criticism of gamers and gamergate I see here is a MASSIVE strawman about misogynerds not wanting girls in their club house.

Massive? Are you sure you want to say that?

The original post talks about feminists stepping off games. To claim there is a large group of "misogynerds" who wants games to be boys only isn't a strawman. It is backed up by evidence.

Oh my, never knew that people who have a problem with feminism's bullying tactics and its often holier than thou followers are apparently both misogynists aka HATE WOMEN and nerds. Your post sounds awfully like the strawman DM Gray was talking about.

And your post proves I'm 100% right. There's some serious rage issues within the gamer community towards women, especially those that they perceive as feminists.

Strawman #45874. Once again feminists pretend to represent all women so if you criticize feminism it means that you hate women. Because woman=feminist in case you didn't know.

Welcome to third-wave feminism folks, where women are represented by feminism whether they like it or not and its critics are all women-hating bastards.

 

[thethird0611]

Don't you think that is exactly how people who are called misogynist feel? Since it wasn't coined by a racist or sexist (which the person who did wasn't, they were just republican who some liberals like to slander)...

What!? You can't possibly think Rush Limbaugh isn't racist and sexist.

I think Rush Limbaugh is Rush Limbaugh. I think he is a big headed human who is very outspoken and has his own radio show, but I wouldn't or don't have anything to call him sexist or racist.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Strawman #45874. Once again feminists pretend to represent all women so if you criticize feminism it means that you hate women. Because woman=feminist in case you didn't know.

That's not a straw man. It's a generalization.

Seriously guys I know it's fun to accuse people of logical fallacies but at least learn what they are first. Straw man sounds like a lot of fun to say but not every bad argument is a straw man. Misuse of this kind of terminology should be grounds for a vicious pelting with fruit.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

I think Rush Limbaugh is Rush Limbaugh. I think he is a big headed human who is very outspoken and has his own radio show, but I wouldn't or don't have anything to call him sexist or racist.

Rush says a lot of sexist and racist things. Whether he's a sexist/racist at heart, or whether he does it for ratings is something only Rush knows, and I doubt he's in a rush to tell us.

Do you see it? Do you see what I did there?

GOD I'm clever.

 

[Guerilla]

Strawman #45874. Once again feminists pretend to represent all women so if you criticize feminism it means that you hate women. Because woman=feminist in case you didn't know.

That's not a straw man. It's a generalization.

Seriously guys I know it's fun to accuse people of logical fallacies but at least learn what they are first. Straw man sounds like a lot of fun to say but not every bad argument is a straw man. Misuse of this kind of terminology should be grounds for a vicious pelting with fruit.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

But it is. He used my post as proof to accuse us that we rage against women something I didn't do anywhere in my posts. He basically changed the content of my post from feminists to women which is a strawman. And it has happened at least three times from different feminist posters the last 2-3 days iirc.