Reading through this thread, it's kind of a microcosm that illustrates the problems with even discussing this issue in the first place, isn't it?
It's kind of hard to even find a route into the ongoing discussion because it's characterized by a marked focus on broad generalizations and hyperbole.
I can't respond to comments of "all feminists want such-and-such" because there's no rational response to hyperbole like that. As well it's kind of impossible to have a rational debate against someone who wants to go down the "you're a sexist if you disagree with me." The ante keeps getting raised and I often feel like there's avenue for me to enter the conversation unless I also respond like a caricature of a misrepresented ideology.
Mandalore_15 said:
As to the meat of your comment, I agree with what you're saying in theory, but in practice I think it is unlikely to work. Feminists that are active online more-often-than-not attempt to shut down any form of debate by categorising anything but complete agreement with them as misogyny or enabling things such as "the patriarchy" or "rape culture". I for one would love to properly debate a feminist about the depiction of women in videogames, but there don't seem to be many who would share my interest.
Fair enough. I can't speak for all of feminism or make claims to represent them. But I can tell you some of my view as
a feminist, at least.
Personally, I don't own a ton of games that I feel have "rampant" sexism in them. I wasn't particularly offended at Red Dead Redemption for having a cheeky achievement for tying up a woman and leaving them on the train tracks to get run over. I don't think every time a female character has boobs that it's sexist, either. In fact, I think it's a very positive thing for anyone of any gender or orientation to be comfortable with (and proud of) their sexuality.
As far as equality in gaming, I think it's more a matter of representation than quantity. I'm not offended if every game doesn't stack up to some sort of quota for the proper ratio of male to female characters. I can play a game with all male characters just fine (though it does help if it makes sense for there to be no female characters at all...)
I do think if Ubisoft were thinking about it a little more, they probably could have thrown in some female characters for the multiplayer parts of the next Assassin's Creed game. But I'm also not planning on doing much multiplayer with that game, anyway (though I do play a lot of AC.) And their games have generally had some very well-written representations of women in their games, I thought.
Feminists get a bad rap and I do think some of that blame lies on faulty communication and a real lack of leadership. If feminism in gaming had a clear message to get across and a concise mission statement to follow, that would help a lot more than anything in clearing up a lot of the confusion surrounding it.
Hell, I'm a guy myself. I just think women ought to be treated equally within my favorite hobby. I'll point out poor representations of women when I come across them, and I think a lot of people could do better by bringing more attention to positive portrayals, too (personally I think the majority of the focus should be on positive rather than negative examples.)
I don't even think all games need to pass some sort of "feminist inquisition" before being released. There's "allowed" to be sexist games and games that portray women poorly. But I don't think it's controversial to say that probably should be the exception and not the rule. Really, I think the divide is about just where the bar should be set and whether we've reached it or not yet.
For myself, I think the goal of a world where this isn't an issue is just something to strive for. The same way that I think it's valuable to criticize games for poor writing and lazy narrative, in general.
