Is Kinect really that innovative?

[IamSofaKingRaw]

Nah, Kinect is far more advanced. All the Eyetoy did was track shadows, and therefore couldn't be used in low light. Kinect actually tracks the person and their movements, so it can see you no matter what. The tracking is much more accurate, down to hand movements rather than whole limbs. Not to mention it's got voice recognition and player profiles.

That doesn't mean Kinect won't encourage a ton of shovelware just like the Wii, but it's still more innovative than say, Sony's Playstation Move, which is just a direct rip-off of Nintendo. Same technology and everything, maybe a little more accurate than the Wii's Motion Plus.

Wrong. It uses the Playstation Eye to track the glowing ball on top of the Move controller and also has sensors inside of it to further increase accuracy. I never heard of the Wiimote tracking in 3d space, have you? Most of the games I've seen from Kinect have been done on the Eyetoy/Pseye whereas some of the developer demos I've seen of the PS Move show its clear dominance over the Wiimotion plus controller.

What are you talking about? The Wiimote has always had tracking in all directions. Front, back, left, right, up, down. Is there some new plane of movement that Sony discovered for use with the Move?

Show me a game where you could move your arm straight out and the character on screen would do the same. The Move can track movements foward and back as well as right and left, the wiimote only does right to left. The motion plus only fixed the accuracy problem for the Wii's tracking right to left.

notice that it also is tracking their body head movements and mimicking them in game. Yeah its a clear wiiripoff/s

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

Kinect doesn't really have much in common with the eyetoy. The eyetoy only captured your silhouette, and let the stuff on screen react to being touched by the silhouette. Kinect, on the other hand, uses infrared technology to track your movement in three dimensions and transfer them to your on-screen avatar.

The eyetoy just identified an object in the path of the camera, and allowed it to interact with on-screen objects. The Kinect, on the other hand, identifies humans, and can even keep track of two separate humans. In other words: The Kinect knows it is filming people, and not, say, a branch wawing in the wind in front of the camera.

The Move is difinately differnt to the Wiimote. The Wii mote can only track movement in the y and x direction whereas the Move can track in the YX and Z (Z bing 3d space) it also allows users to interact with objects in 3d space. Yet with all that change its seen as a Wii ripoff. The Kinect may be superior but all of the games have similar gameplay mechanics to previous Eyetoy games.


Look familiar?


What about this?

Yeah we should all praise Microsoft for their innovation in gaming.

OP's claim was not that the Kinect's games weren't innovative. He/she claimed that the Kinect was a barely upgraded eyetoy. I was not making a point regarding the gameplay of the kinect: I was talking about the technology; and technology-wise, the only common denominator between the eyetoy and the Kinect, is the camera.

It could face track at the very least. If you want a youtube video I can get it fo you. Like I said in this thread the Kinet is just an improvement of the Eyetoy but it is seen as a totally nwe idea and innovation in gaming. Th Move on the otherhand, is seen as a blatant ripoff of the wiimote even though it also is very different.

The eyetoy having a face tracking function doesn't make its technology in any way more similiar to the Kinect. You provide no evidence that the technology of the Kinect is similiar to that of the eyetoy.

Also, note that I never called Move a ripoff of the Wii. Yet you are arguing to me that the Move is not a ripoff. Please stop talking to me about this, since it is only tangentally related to what I am saying.

As a sidenote, your line of reasoning in this post makes no sense to me: You jump from a claim that has close to zero relevance to the discussion, to the conclusion that the Kinect is a ripoff. I am beginning to believe you are trolling.

Additionally, you make it seem like you think you are the only one who thinks the Kinect is similiar to the eyetoy. I assure you, this is not the case. There are plenty of people on the internet who are making poorly grounded arguments for this being the case.

You initially said the Kinect had pretty much nothing in common with the eyetoy and I stated it did. How? By the games and similar features they both share like face tracking, voice commands, body tracking. True I brought the Move into the discussion but that was to show you the common bias favouring Kinect when people talk about who is copying who. My point here is that you can't say either the Move/Kinect is copying another product without saying the other is also.

 

[robinkom]

They're all gimmicks, that's for sure. This console generation has materialized more gimmicks and peripherals than any other before it. It's getting tiresome.

My major problem with motion controls is I don't want to move that much. After work and whatever else I have to do, I sit down with a game to unwind and relax, not flail around some more.

As for the OP's question, Kinect is an interesting and expensive venture to be sure. I know when the Eyetoy came out it drifted under my radar as if I never noticed. Kinect, however, has a more marketing muscle behind it and is hard to ignore. Until you get to try out Kinect yourself and form a genuine opinion of it, you won't really know how "innovative" it is or isn't. Everyone's game preferences are different and if you are heavily attracted to what games it supports, it will make your opinion of the peripheral biased but that's your prerogative.

For me, it will take something very special, unique and worth spending countless hours with to be worthy of spending the money on the device and game in question.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Kinect is an Eyetoy that WORKS.

Kinect has a few issues, but Eyetoy was just BROKEN.

 

[Hashime]

From experience programming motion tracking algorithms, it is impressive. My cousin and I were just trying the track a large moving object in 2 dimensions (for an auto-aiming airsoft turret) and it was bloody hard. The programming, optimization, and 3 dimensional nature of the kinetic is impressive.

 

[shemoanscazrex3]

Nah, Kinect is far more advanced. All the Eyetoy did was track shadows, and therefore couldn't be used in low light. Kinect actually tracks the person and their movements, so it can see you no matter what. The tracking is much more accurate, down to hand movements rather than whole limbs. Not to mention it's got voice recognition and player profiles.

That doesn't mean Kinect won't encourage a ton of shovelware just like the Wii, but it's still more innovative than say, Sony's Playstation Move, which is just a direct rip-off of Nintendo. Same technology and everything, maybe a little more accurate than the Wii's Motion Plus.

So what he said was true, it is just an upgraded Eyetoy haha.

 

[Nomanslander]

Innovative? Maybe?

Gimmicky and unnecessary? Most definitely!

 

[Jonluw]

Kinect doesn't really have much in common with the eyetoy. The eyetoy only captured your silhouette, and let the stuff on screen react to being touched by the silhouette. Kinect, on the other hand, uses infrared technology to track your movement in three dimensions and transfer them to your on-screen avatar.

The eyetoy just identified an object in the path of the camera, and allowed it to interact with on-screen objects. The Kinect, on the other hand, identifies humans, and can even keep track of two separate humans. In other words: The Kinect knows it is filming people, and not, say, a branch wawing in the wind in front of the camera.

The Move is difinately differnt to the Wiimote. The Wii mote can only track movement in the y and x direction whereas the Move can track in the YX and Z (Z bing 3d space) it also allows users to interact with objects in 3d space. Yet with all that change its seen as a Wii ripoff. The Kinect may be superior but all of the games have similar gameplay mechanics to previous Eyetoy games.


Look familiar?


What about this?

Yeah we should all praise Microsoft for their innovation in gaming.

OP's claim was not that the Kinect's games weren't innovative. He/she claimed that the Kinect was a barely upgraded eyetoy. I was not making a point regarding the gameplay of the kinect: I was talking about the technology; and technology-wise, the only common denominator between the eyetoy and the Kinect, is the camera.

It could face track at the very least. If you want a youtube video I can get it fo you. Like I said in this thread the Kinet is just an improvement of the Eyetoy but it is seen as a totally nwe idea and innovation in gaming. Th Move on the otherhand, is seen as a blatant ripoff of the wiimote even though it also is very different.

The eyetoy having a face tracking function doesn't make its technology in any way more similiar to the Kinect. You provide no evidence that the technology of the Kinect is similiar to that of the eyetoy.

Also, note that I never called Move a ripoff of the Wii. Yet you are arguing to me that the Move is not a ripoff. Please stop talking to me about this, since it is only tangentally related to what I am saying.

As a sidenote, your line of reasoning in this post makes no sense to me: You jump from a claim that has close to zero relevance to the discussion, to the conclusion that the Kinect is a ripoff. I am beginning to believe you are trolling.

Additionally, you make it seem like you think you are the only one who thinks the Kinect is similiar to the eyetoy. I assure you, this is not the case. There are plenty of people on the internet who are making poorly grounded arguments for this being the case.

You initially said the Kinect had pretty much nothing in common with the eyetoy and I stated it did. How? By the games and similar features they both share like face tracking, voice commands, body tracking. True I brought the Move into the discussion but that was to show you the common bias favouring Kinect when people talk about who is copying who. My point here is that you can't say either the Move/Kinect is copying another product without saying the other is also.

Wrong. You initially stated that the Kinect was ripping off the eyetoy. I then answered that the Kinect was based on a completely different technology. I did not say that the gameplay of what few Kinect games we have seen was original. We may liken your claim that Kinect is an upgraded eyetoy to a claim that DVDs are merely an upgraded version of VHS: Just because both things can do the same thing, doesn't mean one is a ripoff of the other.

And you did bring the move into the discussion, but you did not do it in any sensible way: You began, out of nothing, to make arguments against a claim I did not make, and that was not related to the discussion we were having. Frankly, it was confusing. I thought you were talking to someone else.

For the record: The reason people think of the Move as a Wii ripoff, is because its control peripherals look very similiar to the Wii's.

 

[Liberaliter]

I think Kinect has the ability to work alongside the hardcore games, as long as it focuses games which will work on the platform and not try to port other games onto it or copy the Wii too much. In terms of innovation the only thing I can think of which is similar is eye toy and that was... well not very good.

 

[omega 616]

Nah, Kinect is far more advanced. All the Eyetoy did was track shadows, and therefore couldn't be used in low light. Kinect actually tracks the person and their movements, so it can see you no matter what.

That doesn't mean Kinect won't encourage a ton of shovelware just like the Wii, but it's still more innovative than say, Sony's Playstation Move, which is just a direct rip-off of Nintendo. Same technology and everything, maybe a little more accurate than the Wii's Motion Plus.

Both a are more accurate versions of previous things. Kinect tracks movement, of what sort it doesn't matter. Move is a more accurate version of the Wii.

The only difference I see is, kinect was based off something last decade or so and move is based off something more recent.

That being said, I think both suck and should just team up with 3D and take a long walk off a short pier.

Not really. Kinect isn't "based" off of the Eyetoy, so that argument makes little sense.

They both use camera's to track movement, one came out years before the other, I think it kind of speaks for it'self.

Even if it is just the idea "hey, we can take the eye toy and take it a bit further".

Again, I don't care for either "new" technology, but anyone claiming that the Move is as innovative or improved as the Kinect is just being a fanboy.

Sorry but your basically saying kinect is so much better than move, it works better, you make it sound like it's brand new idea, it's not based off any other tech etc. I think it's you who sounds like a fanboy, I assume you have a 360.

 

[Accountfailed]

Nah, Kinect is far more advanced. All the Eyetoy did was track shadows, and therefore couldn't be used in low light. Kinect actually tracks the person and their movements, so it can see you no matter what. The tracking is much more accurate, down to hand movements rather than whole limbs. Not to mention it's got voice recognition and player profiles.

That doesn't mean Kinect won't encourage a ton of shovelware just like the Wii, but it's still more innovative than say, Sony's Playstation Move, which is just a direct rip-off of Nintendo. Same technology and everything, maybe a little more accurate than the Wii's Motion Plus.

Oh for fuck's sake.

look, I just wrote a really really nice post that had an awesome point regarding innovation and sony move/kinect and then just after I clicked post the fucking internet went, thanks Eircom.

here is what it was simplified.
Sony's isn't that stupid. for the Wii, I've heard people ***** about the Wii not having good enough graphics and the system being too slow, so naturally Sony making a faster and prettier Wii is (economically and conceptually) a good idea.

As for innovation, Innovation is defined as "the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new" (src; princeton.edu), accepting that as a truth it is logical to say that neither Sony nor Microsoft are being innovative at all. and you can go on about tracking accuracy and voice recognition until the cows come home, but that doesn't stop the Kinect from being a glorified Eyetoy in the same sense that my argument doesn't stop the Move from being a glorified Wii.

So there you go, point made, not as pretty but it does what I intended.

Fuck you Eircom.

 

[C95J]

if you did research you would find that Kinect uses far superior and different technology than the iToy. They are totally different and Kinect is far more advanced.

 

[fix-the-spade]

As a concept yes, Kinect is basically EyeToy+.

But, the technology underneath is different and whether or not it descends into the same shovelware based slow decline is still in Microsoft's court.

If they can get it working and working well I see no reason why it can't take off as Eyetoy so very nearly did before get shovelled to Hades.

 

[Accountfailed]

if you did research you would find that Kinect uses far superior and different technology than the iToy. They are totally different and Kinect is far more advanced.

Please prove your statement. also, It's called an "Eyetoy" (or more recently just "Eye").

 

[Torrasque]

There once was a video game company that released a next generation console that had motion control.
The fans of this company were both excited and sceptical, "will it really be that good?" one fan asked, "I can't wait to have sword fights!" said another.
The competition just laughed at the company and said "motion control? What a joke!" and released consoles that could play movies, since everyone apparently did not have a dvd player.

Several years later, while the company's motion control has not been exactly what gamers had hoped for, it has been really innovative, fun, and the competition is doing the exact same fucking thing.

I have no idea how accurate or good Kinect will be, I don't really care.
Until you can play a FPS without a controller, I will continue not caring.
I know for a fact that the Kinect will run into small problems that will make people rage, just like the Wii has.

As far as I'm concerned, if Nintendo can make a console that takes the competition many years to replicate and "do better", then Nintendo's next console will most likely be cybernetic implants that let you play games in your mind by inserting the game chip in your nose. By then, Sony (as "innovative" as always) will most likely have their games be playable on 3D TVs.

 

[Ensis235]

In terms of technology, I'm gonna say yeah, it's pretty innovative. The whole "track different parts of the body," is pretty advanced, considering it requires no controler to track motions.
That being said, in terms of ideas and creativity, I'm gonna say hell no. The guys who run Microsoft aren't dummies: they know the potential power of the casual market, and they aren't going to let Nintendo dominate in this area. They wanted to make something that was *like* the Wii, but different enough so they could pull the "originality," card in the ads.

 

[C95J]

if you did research you would find that Kinect uses far superior and different technology than the EyeToy. They are totally different and Kinect is far more advanced.

Please prove your statement. also, It's called an "Eyetoy" (or more recently just "Eye").

ah sorry, my typing error.

Well probably the most obvious point is that Kinect was released 7 year after eyetoy it does imply a technological improvement. It's all about the technology inside the systems. sure they both track your movement but inside the tech isn't the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cvBKgn7hd8
This video should explain it PERFECTLY.

It also explains the PSMove as well.

snip

watch video above