Is MS really screwing up?

[BaronVH]

This is simply an observation, but it seems to me that people might be jumping on the Xbone hate bandwagon without all the information. The WiiU stinks. My kids have one, and since Christmas, they have only gotten two games, and the wifi on it is terrible. Also, the PS4 and Xbone seems identical. Here are the incomplete facts: Both will not be backwards compatible. Both will limit used games in some fashion. MS has been specific (to a degree) while Sony has been vague. Both systems seem to be equal in processing power.

There has been some info that the Xbone might have a peripheral that allows backwards compatibility. No info on PS4. For me, this is critical. I am in the camp that must be able to play the last generation games. I will only hook up one system to our main TV, and right now I am not going to disconnect my 360; therefore, unless I can play my old games, I am not getting the Xbone or PS4.

As to used games: The prices for used games stink. I will not pay $50 for a used game that might have been scratched up when I can pay $60 for a brand new one. Many times I can find older games that are cheaper new instead of used. I despise the used game market and Gamestop. Nobody seems to care that Valve uses DRM, and if I can still play my games offline whenever I want, I am cool with that.

I will agree that MS has put a turd in the punchbowl the way they have handled the announcements, and maybe they should have kept their mouth shut until all details were worked out. What I want to know from both sides without spin is this: 1) Will I eventually be able to play my games from the previous generation with an add on device, 2) If my wifi goes down at my house, can I still play single player anytime I wish, and 3) What GAMES are going to be released (I never would have got a WiiU if I new how crappy the releases would be).

Here is what MS should do to turn this around: 1) No more Xbox Live Gold. Free multiplayer gameplay period. You buy an Xbone, you get all features without an extra cost. 2) Announce awesome exclusive games. 3) Specify with detail and a video how the internet connection works and show how it works without a connection. 4) Be cheaper than the PS4. Sony can completely win if they do the above and Microsoft keeps the same course.

 

[Comocat]

I think MS is going to back pedal as we get closer to release. The idea of not being able to play used games without fees or whatever is just to insane to believe. Sure it seems terrible now, but are you really going to remember last weeks press conference in 6 months? Right before the holiday release I'm certain we'll see Microsoft sweeten the pot so it makes us all look crazy in retrospect. Make the console look just absolutely terrible now, and when it's less bad in November we'll think its amazing.

 

[Doom972]

I don't think that they're screwing up. They're doing these things because they know that they will get away with it. Some people will still buy it for the exclusives, while others won't be well informed enough to realize what they're buying.

Captcha: Umbrella Corporation

Indeed.

 

[thesilentman]

They are screwing up, but if there are people buying it, they won't care a single bit. As long as MS has the money, everything goes. I kinda wish that it happened earlier around Windows 8 time, but this is a far bigger screw up. If anything that I keep hearing about is true, well goodbye console gaming. I've already started to make a catalogue for myself on PC, and the PS4 isn't interesting me yet. Give me games, then I'll consider this generation of consoles.

 

[BaronVH]

Well, I anticipate that companies will pony up for exclusives. There was a story today about MS spending one billion on exclusive titles. Video games are just too big a business for them to allow console gaming to fail. As an old school PC gamer, I realize that pirating has killed the PC. Console gaming is here to stay. I personally think so far the Xbone and PS4 are identical. I think the more the system moves from games, the worst off it will be; however, I think the PS3 was basically a Trojan horse for Blu-ray, and I LOVE my home theater with that format. Haven't bought a DVD in over 5 years. I am not on the hate the Xbone bus, since I have not seen a single think different about the PS4.

 

[TehCookie]

Psh I hated it before it was cool. I despised the original Xbox, the 360 didn't have anything I wanted that my PS3 or PC didn't offer me (since the PS3 had all the exclusives that appealed to me) and the xbone has it's obvious problems. All systems do, but that has a few more than the others.

 

[BaronVH]

As to used games: The prices for used games stink. I will not pay $50 for a used game that might have been scratched up when I can pay $60 for a brand new one. Many times I can find older games that are cheaper new instead of used. I despise the used game market and Gamestop.

Then don't fucking buy used games from Gamestop. Simple.

Your dislike of one specific retailer is not a valid reason to shit all over a market across hundreds of different retailers. Try buying used games from Amazon. That's where I get mine. They're cheap, they tell you what kind of condition they're in before you buy them, and if you don't like the condition of the product when it arrives, you can buy from a different seller instead.

Just because Gamestop charges a lot of money for used games, that doesn't give Microsoft the right to start pissing on the entire market. You're being so short-sighted here it's worrying.

I am not dumping on anybody, and I do sell games to Best Buy. I am not a fan of paying more for used which is why I dislike Gamestop. I also fully realize that games are expensive, and to a 15 year old (and many others) $60 is cost prohibitive. Further, I can loan my blu-ray movies all I want, and I realize people want to do that with games. My point is that it seems that the PS4 is going to do something similar. I think it is a bad idea to charge a used game fee, and I notice nobody is raving about Steam. I would like to loan Half-life 2, but I cannot. I also hate movie streaming services and want physical copy; nevertheless, pirates have screwed up the industry and businesses are reactive. Don't think I am against the used games market. I am not. I am curious about Sony's patent to block used games and MS's used game fee. They seem to be doing the same thing. Used games are not a big issue to me. I know they are for many.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Also, the PS4 and Xbone seems identical. Here are the incomplete facts: Both will not be backwards compatible. Both will limit used games in some fashion. MS has been specific (to a degree) while Sony has been vague.

MS, specific? Did you miss the fact they have started back-pedalling on both the online requirement and the used games issue, giving such specific comments as "more details to follow"?

Both systems seem to be equal in processing power.

Except the PS4 will not be using one third of its power to keep useless OS running in the background.

There has been some info that the Xbone might have a peripheral that allows backwards compatibility. No info on PS4. For me, this is critical. I am in the camp that must be able to play the last generation games. I will only hook up one system to our main TV, and right now I am not going to disconnect my 360; therefore, unless I can play my old games, I am not getting the Xbone or PS4.

Can you put your source on that? Because from what I read, the opposite is happening, with Sony using the cloud to allow us to play old games, while MS calls people who want backwards compatibility 'backwards'.

As to used games: The prices for used games stink. I will not pay $50 for a used game that might have been scratched up when I can pay $60 for a brand new one. Many times I can find older games that are cheaper new instead of used. I despise the used game market and Gamestop.

Shop elsewhere, then. It's not the used game market that Gamestop is out to fleece everyone.

Nobody seems to care that Valve uses DRM, and if I can still play my games offline whenever I want, I am cool with that.

No, we care. It's just the only other option is piracy, or stick to 10+ year old games (which isn't a bad option, just limiting). And considering MS is leaving the decision to developers as to whether to be always online or not (and that's not even taking into consideration that they want to use the "infinite power of the cloud" to make the console run better, which will require an always online console), I doubt you'll be able to do anything offline.

 

[BaronVH]

I cannot find the article about the backwards compatible peripheral, but it was rumor when I read it. Look, I ain't defending nobody. For me if I can't play my old games, I am not getting it. I hope MS back pedals a hell of a lot more.

 

[MrBoBo]

It seems pretty obvious since well before the "Xbox one" Microsoft had very little respect for it's customers.
Honestly, when it comes to the big companies, Valve is the only one I think genuinely has any passion or vision for games these days. Microsofts confrence was over rehearsed ingenuous bussiness men/woman displaying a fairly smug attitude I didn't really care for. The Xbox One announcement might as well have been a anti-Xbox One advertisement.

 

[Rednog]

I don't really think they are screwing up. If history has taught us anything the majority of gamers just don't care. Diablo III always online, everyone decries it...sells incredibly well. Boycott moderwarefare 2, sure thing! And look how many people from the boycott group are playing the game at launch. Tons of SimCity issues, don't worry people are buying it like hotcakes.
The thing is that no matter how many "fuck the Xbone" threads there are and no matter how much the internet kicks and screams in protest people will buy the Xbox One.

 

[Robbie Boss]

I believe so. MS news after the event haven't been positive. But hey, that could change after E3, so I'm not really judging right now. It's really Sony game to lose at this point.

 

[Ninmecu]

Two words that sum up why I will NEVER own an Xbone, why I still don't own a Kinect and why I will never allow my brother to bring his Xbone to my place-ever. Big Brother. I don't care if it makes me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. I know human nature enough to know that that peripheral will be abused and we will have no way of stopping them. It could be made outrightly illegal for them to make use of any information they come across through the use of the Kinectboner, but how would we know if they had or hadn't? I don't know about you, but that's the sticker to me. It isn't the fact that a games console is toting itself as a Multimedia Device for the masses(Ala Apple), it isn't the lackluster amount of actual gameplay footage, it isn't the shitty attitude at Microsoft(Which rivals Apple fanboy zealotry in terms of sheer mindless reality bending pants on head retardation.). It all ultimately boils down to that one High Def peripheral which is ALWAYS ON,(Not even online, which it would be if it's connected.) it's on permanent standby waiting for you to say "Xbox on" and unless you're capable of breaking into the infrastructure(Thus eliminating your EULA and likely bricking your console) you won't know what it's up to. That's why I say FUCK the Xbone. I will never accept it, I will never purchase it. I will ignore it even if it has the greatest collection of titles in the history of the medium, even if, by some insanity, they become console exclusive and exclusive to the Xbone. I'll survive, I'll watch some Let's Play's(Something I've never done before.), I'll read some reviews, the wiki's, the storylines(My number 1 enjoyed part of gaming is the storyline, the gameplay comes a close second.). But Microsoft will not get a sale out of me, and I'll be damn sure anyone I know who's interested in it will be told the same thing, stay away from it unless you're willing to not only invite Big Brother into your home-But pay him for watching you and turning you into another commodity.

/Tin Foil Hat mode

TL;DR: In all seriousness, that's the deal breaker for me. A camera/microphone that's always on standby or in use within my primary location(My living room is where I eat/game/study/general living). I simply can't accept that and I won't.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

They're not screwing up, everything is going according to plan. Make the "hush the crowd" announcements early, before E3 even, then just let everyone get their hate out until they become complacent and hand over the cash during the holiday season. Once the next Halo, Gears of War, and whatever these exclusives are get announced, plenty of people are going to forget how mad they were and be in line on launch day shoegazing like a My Bloody Valentine guitarist.

An another note, the One and PS4 aren't equal in power, the PS4 has it beat by a notable margin. They have the same 8GB of RAM, but the PS4 is using much faster GDDR5 RAM. There's a reason you didn't see Microsoft get into specifics during the tech part of the reveal, as up until the PS4 reveal they were under the impression that the PS4 would have 4GB of RAM. Also, the One has 3 GB set aside for it's crazy 3 Operating System VM hybrid thing, so that you can watch TV while you Skype while popping a tweet and forgetting you were planning on playing something. All reports seem to indicate that the PS4 has 1 GB set aside for the OS. If the One becomes the lead platform, they aren't going to look much different, but I bet we'll see a flip this time (the PS4 becomes the preferred platform for third party multi-plats). The PS4 exclusives should also look better than the One's, based on tech alone. They're both using essentially tablet CPUs (probably to keep heat down and avoid another RROD), but the PS4 has a more powerful video chip capable of more shaders and calculations and all that good shit.

 

[DataSnake]

I think it is a bad idea to charge a used game fee, and I notice nobody is raving about Steam. I would like to loan Half-life 2, but I cannot.

I think the reason people complain less about steam is one of general attitude. Compare these two fictional conversations:

Player: Why does this game have Steam DRM? What if I want to loan it to a friend?
Valve: Sorry, we can't let you do that. On the plus side, you can use a web browser in game, if you lose the DVD and need to reinstall the game later you can download a fresh copy from us at no charge[footnote]I've actually done this; to this day I have no idea where my Saints Row 2 DVD is[/footnote], we have a colossal library of old games on the cheap, we regularly have massive sales, and after a one-off activation you don't even have to be online to play.

Player: Why does this console require a constant internet connection? What if I just want to play a single-player game?
Microsoft: Deal with it.
Player: What about backward compatibility?
Microsoft: Wow, you sure are backward-thinking.
Player: And what if I want to loan a game to a friend?
Microsoft: Used games are the cause of every problem in the game industry. We should sue you just for thinking about that!

Which would be more likely to piss you off, if you were the player in question?

Another part of the reason nobody's as pissed about Steam not allowing for used games or rentals is that they've never been a thing on PC. That's always been the tradeoff: consoles get used games, rentals, and the ability to start playing as soon as you put the disk in; PCs get massive backward compatibility, lower prices (even with the annoying trend of publishers bumping the retail price of PC games to $60, steam sales even it out a good bit), and modding support.

 

[sageoftruth]

I don't really think they are screwing up. If history has taught us anything the majority of gamers just don't care. Diablo III always online, everyone decries it...sells incredibly well. Boycott moderwarefare 2, sure thing! And look how many people from the boycott group are playing the game at launch. Tons of SimCity issues, don't worry people are buying it like hotcakes.
The thing is that no matter how many "fuck the Xbone" threads there are and no matter how much the internet kicks and screams in protest people will buy the Xbox One.

I sadly agree. I've heard (from a questionable source) that a chunk of Xbox 360 users don't even play games on their 360s. They just watch Netflix. If that's truly the case, then maybe turning their backs on us gamers won't even put much of a dent in their profits. Either way, screw them, if that's what they really intend to do.

 

[The White Hunter]

They're not screwing up, everything is going according to plan. Make the "hush the crowd" announcements early, before E3 even, then just let everyone get their hate out until they become complacent and hand over the cash during the holiday season. Once the next Halo, Gears of War, and whatever these exclusives are get announced, plenty of people are going to forget how mad they were and be in line on launch day shoegazing like a My Bloody Valentine guitarist.

An another note, the One and PS4 aren't equal in power, the PS4 has it beat by a notable margin. They have the same 8GB of RAM, but the PS4 is using much faster GDDR5 RAM. There's a reason you didn't see Microsoft get into specifics during the tech part of the reveal, as up until the PS4 reveal they were under the impression that the PS4 would have 4GB of RAM. Also, the One has 3 GB set aside for it's crazy 3 Operating System VM hybrid thing, so that you can watch TV while you Skype while popping a tweet and forgetting you were planning on playing something. All reports seem to indicate that the PS4 has 1 GB set aside for the OS. If the One becomes the lead platform, they aren't going to look much different, but I bet we'll see a flip this time (the PS4 becomes the preferred platform for third party multi-plats). The PS4 exclusives should also look better than the One's, based on tech alone. They're both using essentially tablet CPUs (probably to keep heat down and avoid another RROD), but the PS4 has a more powerful video chip capable of more shaders and calculations and all that good shit.

I feel the need to point out that the PS4's GPU has 50% more shader units. Thats a fucking big difference in power, and with a vague knowledge of AMD's APU's it likely means it also has a higher class of CPU, though they're custom chips so I can't guarantee that.

I think we're gonna see a shift too, I think the new Xbox has kicked up a nasty stink and I don't think it's gonna snag the early adopters this time around, not least since the PS4 is out around the same time. All Sony really have to do is price competitively and bundle Killzone and some AAA guff in with it and then manage some PR and they've got the edge.

 

[Rastrelly]

This is simply an observation, but it seems to me that people might be jumping on the Xbone hate bandwagon without all the information. The WiiU stinks. My kids have one, and since Christmas, they have only gotten two games, and the wifi on it is terrible. Also, the PS4 and Xbone seems identical. Here are the incomplete facts: Both will not be backwards compatible. Both will limit used games in some fashion. MS has been specific (to a degree) while Sony has been vague. Both systems seem to be equal in processing power.

There has been some info that the Xbone might have a peripheral that allows backwards compatibility. No info on PS4. For me, this is critical. I am in the camp that must be able to play the last generation games. I will only hook up one system to our main TV, and right now I am not going to disconnect my 360; therefore, unless I can play my old games, I am not getting the Xbone or PS4.

As to used games: The prices for used games stink. I will not pay $50 for a used game that might have been scratched up when I can pay $60 for a brand new one. Many times I can find older games that are cheaper new instead of used. I despise the used game market and Gamestop. Nobody seems to care that Valve uses DRM, and if I can still play my games offline whenever I want, I am cool with that.

I will agree that MS has put a turd in the punchbowl the way they have handled the announcements, and maybe they should have kept their mouth shut until all details were worked out. What I want to know from both sides without spin is this: 1) Will I eventually be able to play my games from the previous generation with an add on device, 2) If my wifi goes down at my house, can I still play single player anytime I wish, and 3) What GAMES are going to be released (I never would have got a WiiU if I new how crappy the releases would be).

Here is what MS should do to turn this around: 1) No more Xbox Live Gold. Free multiplayer gameplay period. You buy an Xbone, you get all features without an extra cost. 2) Announce awesome exclusive games. 3) Specify with detail and a video how the internet connection works and show how it works without a connection. 4) Be cheaper than the PS4. Sony can completely win if they do the above and Microsoft keeps the same course.

Well, for now it looks this way:
1) Daily license check (every console owner is considered a thief by default)
2) Paid multiplayer (every customer is supposed to be an idiot - and from XBox 360 success I see why)
3) Games are no longer an object of ownership
4) Loads of useless functionality
?????
PROFIT for Microsoft.