Is Nintendo making the games they want to make a bad idea these days?
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It doesn't, but thank you for correcting me. What I meant was that Sonic Boom and Bayonetta 2 are supposed to be on par because both are Wii U exclusives, and obviously being a Nintendo exclusive doesn't necessarily mean or guarantee anything in terms of quality.Signa said:
Sorry, I was pressed for time. Anyway, this is a quote from this article http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/12/20/master-of-playGundam GP01 said:
You, know, for all the people whining about how all ninty does is recycle the same games, I REALLY hope those people actually WILL pick up the new IPs being released.
Seriously, Codename Steam and Splatoon had better sell well. (I'm buying CN-Steam the second it's up on the Eshop, and I'm going to get splatoon once I can afford a WiiU)
Seriously, Codename Steam and Splatoon had better sell well. (I'm buying CN-Steam the second it's up on the Eshop, and I'm going to get splatoon once I can afford a WiiU)
Nintendo is doomed with the Wii U. Its a second VirtualBoy, almost no developer wants to work extra in their games so they can be Wii U compatible. Nintendo has no gaems! Once you are done with one you have to wait a while.
This was already addressed in a Game Theory episode. The Wii U was (for the most part) a bad idea.
So they are going to have to struggle with their IPs and I seriously hope that if they are not making new ones, at least they should work hard to make a great Star Fox game, not any Star Fox, they should make the best one so it carries the lame console a little more. Maybe then Nintendo will stop struggling.
This was already addressed in a Game Theory episode. The Wii U was (for the most part) a bad idea.
So they are going to have to struggle with their IPs and I seriously hope that if they are not making new ones, at least they should work hard to make a great Star Fox game, not any Star Fox, they should make the best one so it carries the lame console a little more. Maybe then Nintendo will stop struggling.
Miyamoto has a lot of sway in Nintendo its true however he is not Nintendo nor is he the chairman. He is also not responsible for every Nintendo game. I do remember that quote now that you bring it up but ignoring the fact that he is a company spokesperson not to mention huge personal history with the company and as thus it is in his interest to not show Nintendo in any bad light.TheMisterManGuy said:
Ya know why Miyamoto has such sway in Nintendo its because his games have traditionally sold very well and it has established Nintendo with a huge swath of Ips I daresay he personally will be given much more freedom than most senior management officials but do you think Nintendo would allow him to make games he finds fun if they all started underperforming? Money is the bottom line Nintendo didnt get the money it has by just making games it finds fun and hoping others enjoy them. It follows an iterative formula more than most it just does it in a much better way than say Ubisoft, EA and Activision and their yearly shat out releases.
What I got from his quote about making the game entertaining was that yes he wants people to be entertained by it but he has at least one eye on the business side of it at all times because he wants them to sell if he found a game entertaining and no one else did from what he is saying that would have to change.
One final point when was the last time you heard a games company say er yeah were just in it for the money we dont care if your entertained its all about the cash so just buy our shit. Saying you make games to entertain people is basic company rhetoric even EA and other shit companies like them spout that garbage.
Personally I would be more inclined to give Miyamoto the doubt than some spoke person from EA or Activision etc but really its all about the money to a greater or lesser degree. I believe Miyamoto does want people to enjoy Nintendos games but its not the foremost concern.
If the day comes when he starts making and releasing games for free or at least set up as a non profit scheme I will review my stance. At the moment Nintedno is a company a pretty big one as well and fun doesnt keep companies afloat but having fun while doing your job is always a bonus.
You're making a massive leap of logic here that people wanting new IPs from Nintendo want those specific new IPs that they're creating. Or that they've even got the console.aegix drakan said:
I have a 3DS. Everything I've seen of Codename Steam has just flat out not interested me. I've seen comparisons to Valkyria Chronicles which is one of my favourite games of all time but honestly having played VC2 on the Vita I really just don't find that gameplay works on handheld very well, it should be on a full console. And from what I've seen of Codename Steam visually...don't like how it looks at all.
Splatoon is a Wii U game. I don't have a Wii U (though I've got a Wii lying around here somewhere). With the best will in the world...Splatoon is not exactly a system seller for me; it looks a nice little game but I'm not running out to spend a couple of hundred pounds on a Wii U for it. Hyrule Warriors was ALMOST a system seller for me, but that's largely because of my adoration for Dynasty Warriors.
So no, I'm not going to be buying either of them. In one case because I'm very dubious about the game and in the other case because I'm not buying a new console for a game that I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to buy.
Admittedly for me none of the new consoles are doing that. My most recent console purchase was a Vita just before Christmas, which had more to interest me than any of the new generation stuff. There's just nothing appealing enough to want to spend hundreds on a new console.
That being said I think Nintendo's problem is quite neatly summarised by looking at the amazon pages for the three consoles in comparison. Right now on Amazon.co.uk, sorted by popularity, the top 12 (i.e. the first page of stuff listed on the main page for each console) for each is:
PS4:
Dying Light
GTA 5
PS4 Console (Black)
Battlefield Hardline
The Order 1886
Dragonball XenoVerse
PS4 Console (White)
CoD Advanced Warfare
Bloodborne
Controller (Black)
Controller (Blue)
Final Fantasy Type-0
XBOne:
GTA 5
Battlefield Hardline
Controller (Wireless)
XBOne Console (AC Unity and Black Flag package)
Dying Light
Xbox Live membership (12 months)
CoD Advanced Warfare
XBOne Console
Forza Horizon 2
Evolve
Borderlands Collection
Destiny
Wii U:
Wii U Console (with Mario Kart 8)
Super Smash Bros
Controller (Black)
Mario Party 10 (with Mario Amiibo)
Super Mario 3D World
Mario Party 10
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
Sonic Amiibo
Mario Kart 8
Mega Man Amiibo
Wii U Console (with New Super Mario Bros and New Super Luigi)
New Super Mario Bros
The XBOne and the PS4 lists are almost interchangeable outside of one or two exclusives that give away which list is which. Removing The Order, Bloodborne and Final Fantasy from the PS4 list and Forza from the XBOne list, along with any descriptors specifying a console, and you might have difficulty telling them apart; this is true. But within each list is a reasonably diverse lineup of very different settings and styles.
The Wii U list is an endless series of variations on "Mario" or Mario spinoffs. In fact every single actual game on that first page is either Mario based or has Mario in it. Because that's basically all they're selling. There just seems to be very little effort to diversify and attract new customers because...hey they can just churn out more Mario stuff. The top 20 most wanted for the Wii U is literally Mario Spinoff, Mario Spinoff, SSB, Mario, Console plus Mario Spinoff, Game Controller, Zelda, Zelda spinoff, Mario, Zelda, Lucina Amiibo (might get that myself actually just to have the figure...), Donkey Kong (a series predating even Mario), Mario Spinoff, Mario Spinoff, a bunch of Amiibos, Mario Spinoff and then finally Xenoblade Chronicles X (which might just be a system seller for me, wait on the reviews I guess).
I'm always somewhat baffled at the siege mentality of Nintendo fans. Look...people are not particularly looking for reasons to hate on your console or the company that you seem to be going to the mattresses for. The problem is a lot of people are like me...they're looking for a reason to buy a particular console (or ANY console in my case) but flat out not seeing one. And if Nintendo's entire business model is going to be churning out endless Mario and Zelda games and spinoffs then there's just not much appeal.
That being said...Xenoblade Chronicles X could be very promising.
I wouldn't say they're lagging behind like they're completely failing. Nintendo I see as being their own thing the whole "making games for themselves" argument is a bit shaky to me because they know they have a very large fanbase for several different I.Ps. A user by the name of Lightspeaker here pretty much sums up what I'm thinking when it comes to the Xbox One and Ps4 they're pretty much the same thing for the exception of like maybe a few exclusives. Nintendo doing third party has always been a debate me and my friends have bought up and it ends the same way with me saying that yes.....there's literally nothing wrong with nintendo making games for themselves and the fact that franchises like Mario, Zelda or Metroid are still around and them being around for a long time isn't an issue. But there's the whole bit of Nintendo's main difference of being more geared for a different auidence where Sony and Microsoft basically try to go for the same one.
I guess there are too many "mature" people out there who think the age/maturity ratings on games are reversed.
If you play a M rated game it doesn't mean you are mature, and if you play a age3+ game it doesn't mean you're a child.
If someone bases their gaming on "how a game looks" (not graphically good, but on the art style) then I very much feel sory for that person and all the great games that person is missing out on.
Just because Splat00n looks cartoony doesn't mean it can't be a good game. Same goes for Wonderful101, ViewtifulJoe games (same maker isn't it?) or TeamFortress, they don't look mature or gritty, but they're damn good, fun and challenging games!
I think Nintendo should stick to their gameplan, make fun and enjoyable games. They also come out with other stuff and especially the launch games (ports from PS3/Xbox360 games) are some more "gritty" games if that's what you're after and haven't played them. People should stop worrying so much about what each compnay does, let them do what they see is best for their own company, if you like it or not is another story all together, not much you can do about it anyways (unless you become chief of said company of course...).
If you play a M rated game it doesn't mean you are mature, and if you play a age3+ game it doesn't mean you're a child.
If someone bases their gaming on "how a game looks" (not graphically good, but on the art style) then I very much feel sory for that person and all the great games that person is missing out on.
Just because Splat00n looks cartoony doesn't mean it can't be a good game. Same goes for Wonderful101, ViewtifulJoe games (same maker isn't it?) or TeamFortress, they don't look mature or gritty, but they're damn good, fun and challenging games!
I think Nintendo should stick to their gameplan, make fun and enjoyable games. They also come out with other stuff and especially the launch games (ports from PS3/Xbox360 games) are some more "gritty" games if that's what you're after and haven't played them. People should stop worrying so much about what each compnay does, let them do what they see is best for their own company, if you like it or not is another story all together, not much you can do about it anyways (unless you become chief of said company of course...).
I´m glad they do what they do, i like platformers and challenging games that genereally focus on gameplay. I wish that the WiiU did better so it could get more games, but i get a lot of enjoyment out of the console (Especially now that i have grown sick and tired of shooters, rpgs and open world games). Both because i really like most of the games Nintendo has released so far, and because of the retro games available on the store (especially the GBA titles).
They probably could do "mature" story driven games, but since everyone is doing that these days, i´d much prefer that they focus on what they are good at. I like that the consoles have their own identity, makes things more interesting.
They probably could do "mature" story driven games, but since everyone is doing that these days, i´d much prefer that they focus on what they are good at. I like that the consoles have their own identity, makes things more interesting.
Chasing after the current mainstream market is the last thing Nintendo should do. I just don't think they would succeed.
Nintendo game's gets by on quality but also on charm. Darkness, brown worlds, gritty character and deep stories have rarely been part of that charm, its not Nintendo and them trying to be something they aren't will most likely show. We often frown on companies darkening down after all, I suspect Nintendo doing so will get the same result.
As things are now Nintendo gets by through the audience they have cultivated over the years. A more mature game probably just won't appeal to them and its not likely gamers who sneered at Nintendo's kiddyness for years will quickly come to replace them. I fear low sales are the fate of ever Nitendo attempt to darken things up a little
Nintendo game's gets by on quality but also on charm. Darkness, brown worlds, gritty character and deep stories have rarely been part of that charm, its not Nintendo and them trying to be something they aren't will most likely show. We often frown on companies darkening down after all, I suspect Nintendo doing so will get the same result.
As things are now Nintendo gets by through the audience they have cultivated over the years. A more mature game probably just won't appeal to them and its not likely gamers who sneered at Nintendo's kiddyness for years will quickly come to replace them. I fear low sales are the fate of ever Nitendo attempt to darken things up a little
Guffe said:
This is an absurd argument. And is straw manning a point that has nothing to do with Nintendo's relatively lack of range for their main console line.
I'm currently in the middle of playing Hyperdimension Neptunia Rebirth 1 and think it looks adorable and great. But I think Codename Steam looks ugly. They're both cartoon-styled. Disliking a particular game's art style does not mean you dislike ALL of that kind of art style. Not all cartoon-style games look the same, nor do all realistic games look the same.
Its almost comical that someone else immediately jumps onto the same train as well. Nobody said anything about "gritty realism". You're entirely making that up on your own in assuming that's the only "other" way to make good games. Nintendo's problem is NOT its lack of varying visual designs, its the complete lack of successful variation in key IPs. Somehow they manage to do this on their handhelds, but fail to do so on their main console.
You're right, Nintendo shouldn't try and go all grimdark, because then we end up with games like Twilight Princess.Hades said:
But nobody here is contesting that. They're simply stating that it would be nice if Nintendo would introduce some new IP's into their line-up, and not be so frigging stodgy with their mentality of 'Platformer = Mario. Action Adventure = Zelda.' Create a platformer or action adventure with new characters in a new world. Remember how Okami was basically Zelda, but felt wholly unique because its characters and setting made for a new, fresh experience..?
I'm sory but I'm failing to grasp what you are (counter)arguing.Lightspeaker said:
First of a disclaimer: English is my third language, so if I have written something that can be interpreted wrongly, to how I meant it, or if I have failed to expres myself in a good way, that's my bad.
Now, I want to understand this whole thing we're on about, let' get started
Your second paragraph: I understand that, not all cartoonstyles are the same. There's a huge difference in both games and animated TV when it comes to animationstyles etc. (FinalFantasy/Xenoblade, more anime type or WindWaker/Splat00n more "childish" cartoon for example)
I just said that I hope no one bases their choice of game solely on the fact that a game is "arty/cartoony" or "gritty". I know I am using two extremes but there are too many styles to start counting them all up. OP is talking about this in his second paragraph as people apparently think Nintendo should've made a more "realistic" shooter in stead of a cartoony one like Splat00n (I have not come across this, but apparently OP has).
Next up I'm quoting you on this one (your third paragraph, mid section): Nintendo's problem is NOT its lack of varying visual designs, its the complete lack of successful variation in key IPs.
Especially the second part, "lack of successful variation", what do you mean with this?
Because as I think the MarioU and MarioSuperU and whatnots (2D sidescroll Marioplatformers) are getting old and samey (that's what you mean?), I can't say the same for the 3 dimensional Mariogames (Sunshine, Galaxy and 3DWorld).
Am I even close on the right track in trying to understand you or have I completely missed the point again?
End disclaimer: sory if it will take time to answer next time. Going away and I'm very uncertain when I will be at a computer next time (Escapist isn't working too well on the phone so I'm avoiding that). Might be later tonight or maybe as late as Monday.
Let's get this one sorted out, at least so that I understand what you're going at, then if our opinions differ, that's something that we'll just have to live with
Focus testing 12 year olds is like focus testing a group of extreme try hards. They WILL ALWAYS GIVE THE ANSWER THEY THINK YOU WANT TO HEAR. Not what they actually like. (I.e. they like mature stuff like guns, and boobies and bloooood, when really most of them have no idea what they like yet, their tastes are barely developed and they're about to enter a time in their lives where that's to be figured out and determined and way too jumbled and fickle to matter to any other demographic right now) And let's face it, the market is saturated to the brim with stuff those theoretical 12 year old boys like. Why add to it, even a bit.
Infact Jim did this and applied it to basically everyone in this video, and it's so true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXlcaV5FOmw
So no, it is not a bad idea, Nintendos idea is a pretty sound one and will serve them until they make enough bad decisions to founder the company. But I really really doubt that'll happen anytime soon. There is always a market for plain old fun, without the bells and whistles and as long as they keep making fun, they will survive...maybe not as big as when they strike a monster hit (like the wii and it's marketing genius) but they will keep going til the next diamond they find buried. They have a niche to fill.
Infact Jim did this and applied it to basically everyone in this video, and it's so true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXlcaV5FOmw
So no, it is not a bad idea, Nintendos idea is a pretty sound one and will serve them until they make enough bad decisions to founder the company. But I really really doubt that'll happen anytime soon. There is always a market for plain old fun, without the bells and whistles and as long as they keep making fun, they will survive...maybe not as big as when they strike a monster hit (like the wii and it's marketing genius) but they will keep going til the next diamond they find buried. They have a niche to fill.
Sorry it took a while, been busy with Codename steam (and waiting for a group project meeting that never happened) all day. If you still have doubt about it, download the demo. It's pretty extensive. You have the first 4 maps of the game, and when you'd done, you can replay them with a full party of 4 agents to get the full feel of how missions play out.Lightspeaker said:
Anyway, that post pretty decently illustrated the problem that nintendo is facing. :s
People ask for more IPs, and when Nintendo finally takes a risk and makes them, few people buy them for various reasons. I mean, seriously, how many people (outside of my circle of close friends) even remembers Geist?
Most of the time, I hear "it's not the kind of new IP I'm looking for, I don't like those new IPs", or "Why is this gritty looking game on a nintendo console?". Hell, I even see people saying that about third party "mature" games like "devil's third" or whatever that game's name is.
And this leads to only the classics selling well (your zeldas, your marios, your metroids). Like, Pikmin was the last (pre-xenoblade) new IP that I remember actually doing decently. This in turn leads to fear on Nintendo's side, leading to the kind of situation that almost caused Xenoblade to not make it to the US (only getting through due to a HUGE petition and the game already being localized in Europe, meaning there wasn't much extra work needed. And it STILL took it being a gamestop exclusive for a while in order to make it happen!).
Couple this with the fact that most developers want to make games for the "cutting edge" systems, where all the 18-35 "hardcore" demographic is supposed to be, leading to next to no 3rd party support, and you've got our current situation. :s
Nintendo is afraid to make new IPs because they often don't sell super well, and their third party support is nil as hell because everyone else is afraid to miss out on the big money the other consoles are promising (as well as them being afraid of being tied to a "dead" console). There's no easy scapegoat here. ...Well, ok, maybe still Nintendo's awful marketing (outside of their facebook page).
In the end, though, I think they'll keep trucking on. The WiiU will likely never be a huge success, but it'll still sell enough to keep nintendo afloat long enough for them to make their next console. Remember how the 3DS was a total joke about 2 years ago?
Anyway, the WiiU is the only system this gen that I give even the remotest damn about. It's got enough interesting looking stuff that I'm at least curious about buying it, while all the PS4 has that interests me is Kindgom hearts 3. Essentially everything else I care about, I can get on PC and not NEED a whole new console.