Is "not a good role model" a valid criticism of a person?

[Zhukov]

Just to be clear, I'm asking this in regard to both real people and fictional characters since the criticism gets applied to both.

So yeah, I seem to hear this every so often. A person, especially a well known one, commits some kind of misdemeanour and everyone jumps on them for failing to provide an adequate role model for the youth. Politicians, athletes, actors, those kinds of people. The misdemeanour is usually something that the rest of us would shrug off or live down as a passing embarrassment.

It just all seems a bit... off to me. Is someone who acts in movies or skilfully kicks a ball around for a living somehow obligated to also be a paragon of good behaviour so as not to lead the youth of the world astray? It seems all the more off when such individuals do not actively seek the limelight.

On the fictional side of things, one sees authors and the like being criticised because the characters they create are not deemed sufficiently heroic or pure or whatever to be worthy of imitation. It seems to come up more often in relation to young female characters. Once again, I'm not sure where this supposed obligation comes from. Why can't a character be unpleasant or underhanded or weak or dishonest or some such? Why is it assumed that a character's purpose is to be imitated?

...

Sorry, that was kind of rambling. Hopefully I managed to convey my thoughts somewhere in that mess.

 

[Vault101]

depending on what the person did no....no one is obligated to be a role model

Daniel ratcliff staring in a play where he fucks a hoarse? yeah sorry parents but its not his problem you dont like it

On the fictional side of things, one sees authors and the like being criticised because the characters they create are not deemed sufficiently heroic or pure or whatever to be worthy of imitation. It seems to come up more often in relation to young female characters. Once again, I'm not sure where this supposed obligation comes from. Why can't a character be unpleasant or underhanded or weak or dishonest or some such? Why is it assumed that a character's purpose is to be imitated?
.

that one depends...if its fine in context then yeah

but if the author is just contrbuting to some tired old trope or sterotype thats vaugly insulting then people will call them out...they are not obligates per se but it is good to make it known that we get tired of thease things

 

[bluepilot]

I agree with you. I hate the whole, "kids need a role model thing". I disagree with this strongly. I think that children need boundaries and a strong family unit. But it is easier to criticize famous people for that one time that they did something stupid rather than tackle the problem of crack/alcohol abuse and child neglect present in modern society.

 

[King Billi]

Seeing so many talented and successful individuals screw up and embarass themselves is absoluetly the last thing we want our kids to see... We couldn't possibly want them to think that their so called "idols" are anything like "gasp" regular people!

 

[hazabaza1]

If they're taking up some sort of parental role (like those kid's TV presenters) then yes.

But if someone's criticizing, I dunno, Seth McFarlane because of his speech at the Oscar's (haven't seen it myself, just heard it was offensive) then they can fuck right off because nobody expects him to be child friendly.

 

[Lilani]

I think it depends on the context. I think a certain level of maturity is reasonably expected from people who work closely with children or produce media that children consume, especially now with the Internet and how easy it is to do a general search on somebody. These days if a person who hosts or stars in a kid's TV show goes off and gets totally wasted or makes a sex tape, it's not that hard for a kid to just Google search them out of interest and find those other things. As a parent, that would be quite distressing.

I do, however, think the term "role model" is often applied too loosely and to the wrong people. People have complained about Ke$ha not being a good role model for girls, but really, at what point was it decided the music she makes was intended for little girls? If you've got a consistent track-record of making songs about drinking and partying, I think it's pretty obvious neither their actions nor themselves were intended for the younger crowd. On the other hand, I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold Taylor Swift to a certain standard because one of her main demographics is middle school/junior high aged girls.

And I can't help but feel like female celebrities are given a lot more pressure to be "good role models" than male celebrities, as though it was decided at some point that girls need role models more than boys do, or that girls are more impressionable than boys and need more guidance from celebrities.

 

[Vegosiux]

Role models, sheesh! If things were my way only smart people would be allowed to be role models! And cracking jokes isn't "smart".

As for the question at hand, yeah I suppose it does depend on the context. And, before anyone criticizes any public persona for being a "bad role model", they need to shut up, turn their eyes within and see just what kind of a role model they are themselves for their own children (if applicable).

I mean, if a parent lets the kid be raised by TV, then they are in no position to talk about who's a bad role model.

 

[Bellvedere]

I sort of agree with the role model thing. Not just for kids though this stuff can affect adults too. I don't at all think we should censor any work that doesn't feature a "pure" hero, or stone celebrities that mess up. I mean I love an antihero and a dark comedy.

I guess I feel the same way as when I see "news" programs pushing an extremely right wing agenda under the guise of "informing" people. Or when I see articles whose sole purpose is to inspire fear and hate. If someone whether as a person or through fictional characters has power to strongly influence a lot of people then they have to potential to cause harm whether directly (by promoting drug use) or indirectly (by promoting racism) and they should be acutely aware of that.

For instance (although its very old news now) I remember people being quite insulted by twilight because it had a submissive and weak female lead and was targeted towards young females. Given that it was immensely popular it could be seen that this book carried a terrible message for its target audience.

On the subject of celebrities that get into trouble though, I think one of the big issues there is sponsors and that they are responsible not only for their own image but the image of a brand.

In the end people are free to act and create as they like. There can be repercussions unintended and/or unexpected and dealing with that (even poorly) is something that goes with being in the spotlight. Don't like it, don't pursue that path.

 

[Whitbane]

I never agreed to be a role model, so anyone who tells me otherwise can screw off.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Depends on the context, though. A lot of celebrities do benefit from people seeing them as moral exemplars and role models. In that case, criticism is fair enough.

Mind you, the criticism isn't consistently applied merely to those pretending to be role models.

 

[gazumped]

Everyone has flaws. Maybe a sweeping statement but I'd be impressed if someone didn't. And fictional characters who have none are unrealistic. I guess a good 'role model' or someone who is someone to approve of is a person who deals with those flaws well. Good damage control. Making sure you don't hurt other people. Trying to do better. That kind of thing. I reckon that's what makes a good person, and that's what makes a good role model.

But if someone's criticizing, I dunno, Seth McFarlane because of his speech at the Oscar's (haven't seen it myself, just heard it was offensive) then they can fuck right off because nobody expects him to be child friendly.

I haven't seen it either, but the criticism I heard wasn't anything to do with being child friendly, it was about him saying that depictions of rape were awesome 'cause you get to see boobs. 'course, most people are saying he was being ironic, but I've heard people excuse his Family Guy 'gag' where Quagmire rapes Marge and she likes it in the same way and I... couldn't see much irony there, just the same 'women secretly love rape' 'joke'.

There's a difference between being a role model and being downright irresponsible. Not saying McFarlane is, necessarily, but I'm really not convinced by this whole 'can't you take a joke?' excuse for glorifying rape.

 

[Bertylicious]

That is an interesting question. Hmm...

Yes. I think it is a valid criticism of people in the public eye. I do not believe, however, that a fictional character can (or rather should be) be considered to be a role model. See; a role model offers a kind of leadership to a following wheras a ficticious characther conveys a message. You could argue that the creator of a character could constitute a role model.

The strength of the criticism would be directly proportional to the influence the person weilded. Let us take that little girl from Pakistan who was shot in the head as an example. She weilds tremendous influence over young asian girls across the whole world who admire and emulate her.

If she were to beat up another girl at the Birmingham ward because "she sounded like a retard and wouldn't shut up about grey peas", there would be an uproar and she would draw criticism.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It is a valid criticism in most contexts. But whether it's relevant or not is a separate issue. If someone is a very public figure, they kinda have a responsibility to "behave" that sadly goes with territory.

What I find staggering is how celebrities in the US have no shame or compunction about using their fame to further a political agenda (among others). It's quite disgusting actually.

 

[Yopaz]

Context is everything. Now if I were to say that some celebrity wasn't a good role model for X reason, then I have to ask why it matters. If I were to say the same about a friend who has a kid or something similar then yeah, it's kinda a big deal. Parents should be role models.

 

[Zhukov]

Depends on the context, though. A lot of celebrities do benefit from people seeing them as moral exemplars and role models. In that case, criticism is fair enough.

How does that make it fair?

Unless they specifically set out to present themselves as role models, it's not their problem if people decide to see them as such and then find them wanting.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Depends on the context, though. A lot of celebrities do benefit from people seeing them as moral exemplars and role models. In that case, criticism is fair enough.

How does that make it fair?

Unless they specifically set out to present themselves as role models, it's not their problem if people decide to see them as such and then find them wanting.

Fair enough, should have specified that they are marketed as being role models.

 

[HDi]

Daniel ratcliff staring in a play where he fucks a hoarse? yeah sorry parents but its not his problem you dont like it

He doesn't fuck a horse. The character has a religious (not a sexual) infatuation with horses.

Spoiler: Spoilers - in case anyone really doesn't wanna know the ending to Equus

He tries to make some sexytime with a (human) girl in the stables ...but he can't handle the horses (basically Gods to him) looking at him when he's so vulnerable. So he blinds the horses with a hoof pick.

The controversy was, at first, about the fact that Radcliffe had a nude scene. But it pretty quickly turned into London yelling at itself about indecency and animal sex.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

snips

I agree with this stance, it's all about context really.

On the subject of fictional characters, especially aimed at a younger audiance, the portrayal of your "good guy" characters is really something to consider, especially on WHY they are the good guys in the story.
When the good guy just punhes everything he disagrees with, saying what he does is right without any thought or justification and is glorified for it, has uncomfortable implications about the message of the movie, series or book.

Female characters fall under extra scrutiny on this, mostly in the wake of social emancipation, if a female character saves the day by virtue of letting people decide anything about her, well, you can see where the outrage can come from there.

 

[Vault101]

snip.

ah...there you go, sensationalist media at it once again