Is piracy bad when you don't have a choice ?

[Grey_Focks]

snips

the things is though, a large number of people aren't "going to pirate no matter what" and would still buy, but pirating is just easier.

Honestly though, it's a hard topic to take a firm stance on one way or the other. I've pirated before, and I won't honestly say I'll never pirate again.

That being said, all these people saying "I can't afford a car, does that mean I can just steal one" are being VERY ignorant thinking that this is the same thing. If it was possible to make an exact copy of a car, for free, then I could see the comparison.

If some of you guys are just going to keep saying "tough luck, it's a luxury" just keep your thoughts to yourself instead of practically flaming the OP who asked a good question that I still don't see as having a definitive answer.

 

[acosn]

No. Not at all.

You are not anyone's radar. You're not on a corporation's demographic charts. You will not make or break their sales, nor do I think your whole country would either.

What works in one country wont work in others- companies get that. Its why most Asian countries have a pay-per-interval model for playing MMO's rather than the flat monthly fee that most western countries have- 15 bucks a month is some people's food budget in China.

By pirating because it's almost completely beyond the means of your impoverished nation you're effectively voting with your dollar. Or w/e your currency is.

Its not wrong because you were never going to be a potential consumer anyways.

Just the same there are other valid reasons to pirate- Games can be just rare. Certain platforms like Steam and the XBLA are working against this by opening things up but I don't think I need to tell you how hard it can be to find some titles- I literally spent a year trying to hound down a copy of Harvest Moon 64 back when it was new. Atlus titles tend to be rare as well. And there's also the titles that are just old. SNES titles? N64 titles? You can't buy those anymore- the developer won't see a penny regardless of whether you track down the title in stores or just pirate it.

And beyond that? Well for one companies are doing a horrible job exposing their games to the public for the PC- people are hesitant buyers. With the sheer number of OS's, graphics cards and beyond its not always a sure bet any given game can run on your computer. Even then, suppose it works, is it good though? I try to only spend 50-60$ on games that really deserve it. If there's no sufficient demo you can imagine I want to try it first anyways, and its not like that's always (legally) an option.

 

[Don't taze me bro]

I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.

There are a myriad other ways to entertain yourself, and to argue otherwise makes you ignorant. Also, other considerations that have not been addressed include the following. Does he have a console, that he could afford in the first place, or a 'gaming' PC to play these games in the first place. The OP has obviously no problem being able to afford internet or a device to play games on.

There are also plenty of free to play games available. Grab Portal while you can, download Battlefield Heroes, start playing Lord of Ultima, take advantage of deals like the Indie Bundle 'pay what you want' scheme.

If I can't afford a something, then I don't buy it. I'd love to be playing Mass Effect 2 right now or a bunch of other games, but I can't afford them. However I'm not going to justify or rationalise pirating them.

 

[Meggiepants]

I dare any of you people to adjust your economic situation to the point where you can't afford basic entertainment to cope with life, and with no change seen in the future, and I DARE YOU to tell me that you would still agree with people that say you don't deserve to at least try and obtain some entertainment to keep sane.

Are you saying that before the 1980s people all over the world went insane from living without their basic form of entertainment? What about before the 1920s when *gasp* there were no movies, let alone television?

As someone who lives with a guy whose family collected pennies so they could eat, I'm going to say video games were not high on his list of things he needed to steal to cope with his situation. He was lucky enough to make heavy use of his local public library.

You are co-opting a group of people, the impoverished, to make a point. I don't think the truly impoverished people are out there fighting for their right to steal video games. I'm going to say they'd much rather have a regular source of food, water and shelter. They'll work up to entertainment later.

 

[TOGSolid]

Games are a luxury item, they're not a public service or something you deserve. If you can't afford it, then you shouldn't be pirating it either. This mentality is right on par with "I can't afford that TV so it's not wrong to steal it."


If you need something to do that badly then go learn to knit or read a book, or something like that.

 

[DarkRyter]

Unfortunately, the old "What would batman do?" resolution doesn't work because Bruce Wayne is a multibillionaire.

So, uh, yeah. DRM sucks.

 

[SnowdensOfYesteryear]

snips

the things is though, a large number of people aren't "going to pirate no matter what" and would still buy, but pirating is just easier.

Honestly though, it's a hard topic to take a firm stance on one way or the other. I've pirated before, and I won't honestly say I'll never pirate again.

That being said, all these people saying "I can't afford a car, does that mean I can just steal one" are being VERY ignorant thinking that this is the same thing. If it was possible to make an exact copy of a car, for free, then I could see the comparison.

If some of you guys are just going to keep saying "tough luck, it's a luxury" just keep your thoughts to yourself instead of practically flaming the OP who asked a good question that I still don't see as having a definitive answer.

You know, I respect you. Rather than hammering on about "I'M RIGHT AND THIS IS MY MORAL VIEWPOINT THAT JUSTIFIES IT" you have the ability to see a gray area and acknowledge that not everything in the same... genre of something, shall I say, is the same. I appreciate that in a person.

Back on topic, however: the "pirating is easier", is really the fault of the publisher. The buying game - give money, get game, isn't that hard and the publishers are being practically National Socialist about it by putting these restrictive boundaries on the game when legally bought - that's what's making it harder to buy. The way I see it; if we're being treated like pirates anyway, why not actually BE a pirate?

 

[SyphonX]

Yes, I'm the ignorant one, as you proceed to conflate the introduction of an item nearly impossible to obtain to a different market, to your temporary situation where games are virtually effortless to obtain, given the proper motivation. Because you overspent on something else one day, or didn't get a paycheck at the end of the month.

Not the same.

In some places, due to marketing negligence, a game.. a single game, as has already been stated, remains hyper-inflated to it's home market, introduced to a different market, making it a huge chunk of one's normal salary. Even though that person isn't poor, but well off.

Basically, one capitalist market scheme is trying to exert it's hyper-inflated control scheme on a market that is just fine, minus all the inflated value on junk.

 

[ezeroast]

Well here in Australia new release games sit around the $90 mark. That comes to close to a quarter of my weekly wage but I'm not buying a game every week.
If you living in Romania and making 350 euros I think you could lash out on a game for 40 euros every now and then.
I don't see the problem

 

[TelHybrid]

To be honest I'm not going to be judgemental about pirates, and simply state the facts.

Legally it is wrong to pirate games, that's that, no further explanation needed.

Morally it is wrong as well. It is a form of stealing, as developers put a lot of time and money into developing video games, and price situation doesn't change that. I can't afford a Lamborgini, but I'm not going to steal one.

The only times piracy is morally acceptable, is when the game is no longer being distributed by the developers/publishers. If the only source is buying it second hand from someone on ebay, then that does not fund the developers, but just some random person. Personally, I'm not going to pay someone £50 for System Shock 2. If they release System Shock 2 in stores or on a download service like Steam, then I will buy it to contribute to the gaming industry.

As I said before though, I am not saying this in a judgmental manner, but simply stating the facts. I'll admit I've been known to pirate games myself in the past before I had a job. I knew it was wrong, but I did it anyway. It's worse to try to justify something wrong than accept it's wrong.

P.S. How about not buying new releases??
How about perhaps being sensible with your money and buying games in platinum/greatest hits/classics ranges? I live in England and make a decent living, but do you think I can go buying a new release for £45 every week?!

 

[SnowdensOfYesteryear]

Well here in Australia new release games sit around the $90 mark. That comes to close to a quarter of my weekly wage but I'm not buying a game every week.
If you living in Romania and making 350 euros I think you could lash out on a game for 40 euros every now and then.
I don't see the problem

40 euro (50 dollars) most of the times more expensive than in the US or UK

 

[SyphonX]

Are you saying that before the 1980s people all over the world went insane from living without their basic form of entertainment? What about before the 1920s when *gasp* there were no movies, let alone television?

As someone who lives with a guy whose family collected pennies so they could eat, I'm going to say video games were not high on his list of things he needed to steal to cope with his situation. He was lucky enough to make heavy use of his local public library.

You are co-opting a group of people, the impoverished, to make a point. I don't think the truly impoverished people are out there fighting for their right to steal video games. I'm going to say they'd much rather have a regular source of food, water and shelter. They'll work up to entertainment later.

Are you saying.. (gasp), that people who refuse to buy items in a hyper-inflated market are, living in the 1920's? We're not talking about poor people. We're talking about one market (the west), where the dollar value sucks so bad, that you can't even buy a single vegetable for a dollar, (that's pretty inflated and horrid) trying to place it's hyper-inflation into another market that isn't inflated, and trying to say they should pay the same price. Yeah, that's realistic, and not selfish, greedy or stubborn in any way.

Basically saying that anyone who doesn't join into the hyper-inflation meltdown, is a criminal douche-bag. Yeah, that' really stands up on it's own merit.

 

[ezeroast]

Well here in Australia new release games sit around the $90 mark. That comes to close to a quarter of my weekly wage but I'm not buying a game every week.
If you living in Romania and making 350 euros I think you could lash out on a game for 40 euros every now and then.
I don't see the problem

40 euro (50 dollars) most of the times more expensive than in the US or UK

what?

 

[SnowdensOfYesteryear]

Well here in Australia new release games sit around the $90 mark. That comes to close to a quarter of my weekly wage but I'm not buying a game every week.
If you living in Romania and making 350 euros I think you could lash out on a game for 40 euros every now and then.
I don't see the problem

40 euro (50 dollars) most of the times more expensive than in the US or UK

what?

His original post stated it wasn't forty euros, it was forty euroes more expensive than US/UK prices.

Either that or I'm bad at interpretation.

 

[zungerman090]

Don't ever ask this question on the Escapist. The topic is extremely touchy, and you are going to be flamed no matter how polite you are. Anyways, I live in Vietnam. Most people earn less than $ 200 every month. Many if not everyone turns to piracy, whether it is games, music or films. If I asked anyone about it, I doubt that a single person would say that they feel guilty for pirating. If nothing else, they would be proud of it. So, there ya go

 

[Therumancer]

In this case it touches on a bigger issue since the very arguement that is being made touches on the issue of intellectual properties and patents. The arguement that if someone in a poor country can't afford something produced by a creator, they should be able to either steal it, or purchuse a knock off, not to mention of course the arguement that if something exists they should be able to manufacture it and sell it for whatever they want irregardless of the rights of the inventor. Simply put I feel this attitude is wrong, ESPECIALLY when it comes to entertainment products. Whether it's a video game or a pair of styled jeans, neither represent a nessecity. Things become more morally ambigious when it comes to certain medicines, or food, but even in those cases I tend to feel there are work arounds. Especially seeing as in many cases I believe there are other issues at stake.

HOWEVER, I will also say that when it comes to things like video games I do think the industry itself is to blame to an extent. If you've been listening to my discussions with John Funk and the like, you'll notice that we've gotten into this thing pretty heavily from time to time. For all it's comments about piracy, used game sales, and everything else, and trying to justify them, you'll notice that the industry has never even seriously tried to substantially lower the prices of games to make such things less viable, and increase the volume of sales. Having not spent any time in the "third world" I can't comment on the truth of how expensive video games are in proportion to what people make. However it occurs to me that for all of these stolen games that are whined about lower prices might generate sales in areas that are almost 100% piracy oriented for their media. Not to mention of course the huge effect I think it would have here in the US and other nations.

Overall it's a very multi-faceted arguement. It's always possible my opinion might one day change, but as things stand now I generally feel that stealing or knocking something off simply because you can't afford it is wrong.

I mean even "fan to fan" arguements/gray areas don't apply in this case when they are selling the games (or trying to).



.

 

[oxiclean]

Yes, I'm the ignorant one, as you proceed to conflate the introduction of an item nearly impossible to obtain to a different market, to your temporary situation where games are virtually effortless to obtain, given the proper motivation. Because you overspent on something else one day, or didn't get a paycheck at the end of the month.

Not the same.

In some places, due to marketing negligence, a game.. a single game, as has already been stated, remains hyper-inflated to it's home market, introduced to a different market, making it a huge chunk of one's normal salary. Even though that person isn't poor, but well off.

Basically, one capitalist market scheme is trying to exert it's hyper-inflated control scheme on a market that is just fine, minus all the inflated value on junk.

i cant get a mars bar where i am in the US. im in a different market, and most of the specialty places that do have them they are over-priced. does that justify me stealing the mars bar?

 

[Generic_Dave]

Personally I see piracy in a kinda of bubble...my opinion is "If you would not buy it, you can pirate it" I don't pirate games, because I can afford them and because for me, unlike our thread-head, they are worth the outlay compared to entertainment.

But I don't see the rationale that every pirated anything is a lost sale. I have pirated in my time, but never anything I would buy and and if I did pirate anything I'd buy, I buy it later...(just ask the entire run of Battlestar on my shelf or the first four seasons of Supernatural, all of which I downloaded and then bought on DVD).

So here's a question, is it wrong to pirate something that I later buy?

 

[oktalist]

Pirate or not, I really don't care. Gawd, I'm so over this whole piracy debate. Shush already

 

[SnowdensOfYesteryear]

i cant get a mars bar where i am in the US. im in a different market, and most of the specialty places that do have them they are over-priced. does that justify me stealing the mars bar?

Piracy doesn't directly remove anything from the market. Stealing a mars bar takes one mars bar away from the mars bar everyone else has, forever.