Is professional wrestling the most powerful martial art?

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

A scripted punch to the face is still a punch to the face. If people want to criticize 'professional wrestling' for being scripted, fine, that's fair. But we need to stop downplaying the physical requirements and tests of endurance in those scripts.

As a relatively recent convert into the fandom of pro wrestling, this is an oft overlooked point. A lot of the time people who marvel at the choreographed fight scenes in movies will look at a wrestling match and scoff because it's "fake." The only fake thing about it is that they aren't literally trying to kill each other.

I'd like to see a real black belt pull off half of what Daniel Bryan can do in the ring. I'd like to see a champion martial artist lift 250 pound men and pull off insane acrobatics for an hour straight like Seth Rollins. The physical capabilities of these people, and the toll it takes on their bodies, is 100% real, and being awed by those feats of strength and athleticism is the main reason I watch it.

OT:

Yes, obviously. Have you seen them hit people with metal ladders? Nothing can stand up to that.

Even worse, they actually hit each other with brief cases. It's barbaric and sick how much damage you can do with one of those, and they actually give them to people on purpose.

 

[Asita]

Oh, absolutely. I mean have you seen their finishing moves?

Unless you can give me people as fast as the Beast, I'm going to be putting my money on the fighters who are packing heat.

More seriously, there actually is an argument to be made in Pro-Wrestling's favor. It's scripted, yes, but the wrestlers are still very physically capable, and much of what they need to learn for their job is about minimizing damage to themselves. For all that it's tempting to scoff at the idea, a Pro-wrestler could likely hold their own in at least a fair number of matchups.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's all pretend innit?
Like I know they can get hurt and all but so can stunt actors.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

I saw a wrestler go to kick somebody and miss, but his opponent fell down anyway.

So yeah, I think OP is correct

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Oh, absolutely. I mean have you seen their finishing moves?

As outrageous as that clip may seem, Mario Gallinto who wrestled in Memphis once barged into a show with a loaded shotgun looking for...well, I assume Jerry Lawler, because he was involved in EVERYTHING in Memphis...

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

It's all pretend innit?

Yes and no.

Yes, the outcomes are pre-determined and a lot of the really fancy bits are worked out ahead of time, but the rest is done on the fly.

And sometimes, wrestlers are legit pissed off at the guy they're working with enough to make it NOT pretend...

Like I know they can get hurt and all but so can stunt actors.

Stunt actors have multiple takes to get a scene right, and don't usually have to do it in front of a live audience.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I saw a wrestler go to kick somebody and miss, but his opponent fell down anyway.

So yeah, I think OP is correct

He didn't miss, that was just to throw off his opponent who was caught completely off guard when the shockwave of the blow hit him.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's all pretend innit?

Yes and no.

Yes, the outcomes are pre-determined and a lot of the really fancy bits are worked out ahead of time, but the rest is done on the fly.

Maybe so but I don't think that a sport that hinges almost entirely on scripted theatrics - down to who wins and who loses - can contend for "most powerful martial art".

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

It's all pretend innit?

Yes and no.

Yes, the outcomes are pre-determined and a lot of the really fancy bits are worked out ahead of time, but the rest is done on the fly.

Maybe so but I don't think that a sport that hinges almost entirely on scripted theatrics - down to who wins and who loses - can contend for "most powerful martial art".

Please say you weren't taking this seriously...

 

[Wintermute_v1legacy]

Professional wrestling is stupid, just like Baseball and Monster Trucks, and this is why the world hates you, merica.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Professional wrestling is stupid, just like Baseball and Monster Trucks, and this is why the world hates you, merica.

Pro wrestling is also big in Japan and Mexico. Does the world hate them too?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Professional wrestling is stupid, just like Baseball and Monster Trucks, and this is why the world hates you, merica.

Pro wrestling is also big in Japan and Mexico. Does the world hate them too?

Add to that, the list of British and Irish Wrestling Promotions [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_wrestling_promotions_in_Great_Britain_and_Ireland].

Just adding my two cents. Nothing to see here.

 

[CaitSeith]

Only in fiction (which professional wrestling basically is).

 

[Marik2]

Professional wrestling is stupid, just like Baseball and Monster Trucks, and this is why the world hates you, merica.

I think monster trucks died down after the 90s.

 

[sXeth]

A scripted punch to the face is still a punch to the face. If people want to criticize 'professional wrestling' for being scripted, fine, that's fair. But we need to stop downplaying the physical requirements and tests of endurance in those scripts.

There's certainly a heavy physical demand and toll to pro wrestling, but if worked punches are landing with anything resembling full force somethings usually gone haywire (or someones lost their cool). Which then certainly leads to concussions or broken noses/orbitals, but its pretty far from the norm.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

A scripted punch to the face is still a punch to the face. If people want to criticize 'professional wrestling' for being scripted, fine, that's fair. But we need to stop downplaying the physical requirements and tests of endurance in those scripts.

There's certainly a heavy physical demand and toll to pro wrestling, but if worked punches are landing with anything resembling full force somethings usually gone haywire (or someones lost their cool). Which then certainly leads to concussions or broken noses/orbitals, but its pretty far from the norm.

You can say the same thing about "real" martial arts though. In theory you can break bones and such, but if you actually do then technically you're doing something wrong

 

[sXeth]

A scripted punch to the face is still a punch to the face. If people want to criticize 'professional wrestling' for being scripted, fine, that's fair. But we need to stop downplaying the physical requirements and tests of endurance in those scripts.

There's certainly a heavy physical demand and toll to pro wrestling, but if worked punches are landing with anything resembling full force somethings usually gone haywire (or someones lost their cool). Which then certainly leads to concussions or broken noses/orbitals, but its pretty far from the norm.

You can say the same thing about "real" martial arts though. In theory you can break bones and such, but if you actually do then technically you're doing something wrong

Well, there's two categories of martial arts. Either designed for actual combat, or designed to highlight technique (whether for a meditative process, fitness, or performance).

In the first case, strikes or submissions are very much intended to disable an opponent by rendering them unconscious or disabling them by breaking a bone or damaging a nerve.

Professional wrestling could probably fit in the second. Other then the predetermined nature, it is two athletes demonstrating a mastery of physical technique.

MMA/Combat sports are a weird mix, because while they use the principles of the first set, they do of course have stoppages and some general rules to prevent injuries.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Well, there's two categories of martial arts. Either designed for actual combat, or designed to highlight technique (whether for a meditative process, fitness, or performance).

In the first case, strikes or submissions are very much intended to disable an opponent by rendering them unconscious or disabling them by breaking a bone or damaging a nerve.

Professional wrestling could probably fit in the second. Other then the predetermined nature, it is two athletes demonstrating a mastery of physical technique.

MMA/Combat sports are a weird mix, because while they use the principles of the first set, they do of course have stoppages and some general rules to prevent injuries.

Eh, that seems like its coming a bit close to No True Scotsman. "Oh no those don't count as real martial arts, I was only talking about real martial arts." Where, for example, would you categorise Jujitsu? From how you describe it, you only seem to count styles that are particularly offensive as martial arts so where does the mostly defensive jujitsu fit in? I mean, it is designed for actual combat, in theory at least, so would fir your first category, but from my experience its just as much a pantomime as any wrestling match so really goes more in the second

 

[sXeth]

Well, there's two categories of martial arts. Either designed for actual combat, or designed to highlight technique (whether for a meditative process, fitness, or performance).

In the first case, strikes or submissions are very much intended to disable an opponent by rendering them unconscious or disabling them by breaking a bone or damaging a nerve.

Professional wrestling could probably fit in the second. Other then the predetermined nature, it is two athletes demonstrating a mastery of physical technique.

MMA/Combat sports are a weird mix, because while they use the principles of the first set, they do of course have stoppages and some general rules to prevent injuries.

Eh, that seems like its coming a bit close to No True Scotsman. "Oh no those don't count as real martial arts, I was only talking about real martial arts." Where, for example, would you categorise Jujitsu? From how you describe it, you only seem to count styles that are particularly offensive as martial arts so where does the mostly defensive jujitsu fit in? I mean, it is designed for actual combat, in theory at least, so would fir your first category, but from my experience its just as much a pantomime as any wrestling match so really goes more in the second

No True Scotsman would have to define one category as not a martial art. I specifically said, two categories of martial arts. Some concern themselves with utter practicality, while others concern themselves with practiced technique and rules-constrained competition. The latter might be of some practical use, but for the most part, if you take away the rulesets, they're often picked apart easily.

As to Jujitsu, you'd have to specify which of the myriad varieties of Jujitsu we're discussing. In the MMA popularized Brazilian Ju-jitsu though, it's defensive, but still entirely designed to put you in a superior position to submit an opponent by placing them in a hold that would, in a street fight, be lethal or highly debilitating. In sparring or mma, you tap out to a choke or a bar as an acknowledgement that you've been outperformed. In actual combat, you go to sleep (and if the holds kept on, potentially you don't wake up) or you get your arm/leg snapped.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

No True Scotsman would have to define one category as not a martial art. I specifically said, two categories of martial arts. Some concern themselves with utter practicality, while others concern themselves with practiced technique and rules-constrained competition. The latter might be of some practical use, but for the most part, if you take away the rulesets, they're often picked apart easily.

As to Jujitsu, you'd have to specify which of the myriad varieties of Jujitsu we're discussing. In the MMA popularized Brazilian Ju-jitsu though, it's defensive, but still entirely designed to put you in a superior position to submit an opponent by placing them in a hold that would, in a street fight, be lethal or highly debilitating. In sparring or mma, you tap out to a choke or a bar as an acknowledgement that you've been outperformed. In actual combat, you go to sleep (and if the holds kept on, potentially you don't wake up) or you get your arm/leg snapped.

That is kind of what you're doing though. One is a martial art, the other is a performance. To which my counter point is; aren't the all just performances? Like with your example, you could put someone ina sleeper hold which would choke them out...in theory. Because you're not actually going to do it. If you actually hurt anyone with anything more serious than a bruise you've done it wrong. There's supposed to be a modicum of safety. So my question is why wrestling seems to get the short end of the stick when its not really got more scripting than "real" martial arts, its simply more open and obvious about it