Is psychology a science?

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Eldritch Warlord

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There are two types of science. 'Hard' and 'soft.'

Physics, Chemistry, and Biology are hard sciences. They deal only with observable and precisely describable facts, things that can be quantified and calculated. These facts can be used to form more vague theories, but the basis of the science is relationships which are mathematically meaningful.

Psychology is a soft science. It deals with unquantifiable and often more abstract phenomena. Theories and observations of this nature can still have practical uses, but they are not based on things which can be described precisely.

The designations of hard and soft have nothing to do with worth or viability. They only designate the nature of the content studied.
 

hawkeye52

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Furious Styles said:
In psychology there are numerous theories that have little to no empirical evidence, like, for example, most of the theories that aren't biological. Seriously, most of its based around conjecture and the subjective interpretation of fairly vague data. Some, such as the psychodynamic approach, have literally no support whatsoever. Which is, to my mind, unscientific.
of which most of the psychodynamic approach can be attributed to freud who was one of the "original" in the same way that galen is one of the "original" doctors of medicine. doesnt mean we should continue to follow and believe in those ideas put forward by them as most of both their ideas are complete and utter rubbish to which many psychologists believe this of freud and the psychodynamic approach.

however there is some credibility to the psychodynamic approach with some of its cures still being used today in mainstream medical systems i.e. your psychiatrist. they work as well sometimes because the problem within the mind can come from within and not have to be a physical defect or disease of the brain. one example might be an irrational phobia of which is overcome with desensitsation or in some of the older or more extreme cases "flooding" (check it up i cba to explain) which actually killed a few of its patients due to high levels of stress.

but as i said before most of freuds ideas (of which composes most of the psychodynamic approach) are complete crap and are acknowledged so by most psychologists. if you want something that is a bit more believable and practical look up things like deindividuation and zimbardos prison study or behaviourism in general or any of the biological models associated with psychology.
 

Cypher10110

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Sexual Harassment Panda said:
lukemdizzle said:
I could site my schools psych text book and the chapter "Is Psychology a Science" in which it explains why psych is considered a social science because it relies on subjective and observational theories as much as the scientific method
"The social sciences are the fields of academic scholarship that explore aspects of human society. "Social science" is commonly used as an umbrella term to refer to a plurality of fields outside of the natural sciences. These include: anthropology, archaeology, economics, geography, history, linguistics, political science, international studies and, in some contexts, psychology."

You're simultaneously right and wrong. Aspects fit, but others clearly don't. You were just a little too forceful and definitive with your assertion...that's all.[/quote]

I suppose the main problem with people saying anything "isn't a science", what they're actually saying is "there is no evidence"/"I don't believe you're telling the truth"/"you're making this up".

In science people make up theories, some that make sense, some that don't. Some that don't make sense that work, some that make sense that don't work. The cool thing about science is it looks at the ones that work and the ones that don't and ask questions. "You're wrong" is not as useful to science as "Why do you think that?".

Use reason to deduce conclusions. Use science.

To be a good scientist/mathematician/philosopher, you must know what you do not know.
 

FightThePower

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Dec 17, 2008
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high_castle said:
This isn't even debatable, and I'd be surprised if any of the kids debating this in your school have ever actually taken psychology (few schools offer a comprehensive course in it, just overviews that gloss over the hard facts). If you study it in college or post-graduate, you'll find it's a much "harder" science than most people assume. It's very much concerned with the flow of information along the nervous system in addition to the fields of behavior.

I hate when people debate the validity of something they don't understand. Study it for four years and get back to me.
Thank you. Actually, I'll write that again in big letters:

[HEADING=3]THANK YOU[/HEADING]

Like I said, as someone who does Psychology as a degree, there is nothing more frustrating to see people say "it's not a science" when I've taken my time to study it properly and know that they are compeltely wrong.

It's like when people say "you know we only use 10% of a our brains". Most irritating myth ever.
 

child of lileth

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Jun 10, 2009
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I kinda wanted to say no, but I can't really say what else it is, so I'll just agree that it's a science, but a specific kind if anything. Like it's own dedicated area of it.
 

Tarmon'gaidin

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Well mankind hasn't figured out yet how to properly study psychology. But in my humble oppinion it is in fact a science because the human mind and it's thoughts and emotions are just a series of chemical responses.

So yes it is a science but it's so much more complicated then something as "simple" as gravity that it will probably take at least another 50 years before it will be clasified as such.
 

FightThePower

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Eldritch Warlord said:
Psychology is a soft science. It deals with unquantifiable and often more abstract phenomena. Theories and observations of this nature can still have practical uses, but they are not based on things which can be described precisely.
No it does not. Psychology actually involves a lot of statistics; there a lot of different ways we gather data, some less scientific than others - case studies and stuff like that. But there are plenty of controlled laboratory experiments, something that you would see in one of the 'pure' sciences.
 

Gitty101

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Gah! I thought I'd never see this topic/debate ever again (A2 Psychology). Simple answer - no. It is not a science. For a science to be classified as such, a paradigm must be established. Until this occurs - which it can't due to the nature of the psychological approaches - Psychology is a pre-science at best.
 

emm1t

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I read the topic and went "Obviously!? Retard!?" but then I thought, oh maybe like psuedo-sciences that have branched off like evolutionary psychology or whatever, but really, if you don't think its a science then go take a psychology class and come back to me.

Edit: and thats what I get for not reading the rest of the thread, somebody basically said the same thing with similar wording and I look like I'm rehashing. anyway, yeah go take AP Psych.
 

Zaverexus

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I'm taking a psychology class right now and at least according to that class, psychology is a SOCIAL science, so in the sense of rigidly defined exact science, no it is not, but I believe it still counts
 

Furious Styles

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hawkeye52 said:
of which most of the psychodynamic approach can be attributed to freud who was one of the "original" in the same way that galen is one of the "original" doctors of medicine. doesnt mean we should continue to follow and believe in those ideas put forward by them as most of both their ideas are complete and utter rubbish to which many psychologists believe this of freud and the psychodynamic approach.

however there is some credibility to the psychodynamic approach with some of its cures still being used today in mainstream medical systems i.e. your psychiatrist. they work as well sometimes because the problem within the mind can come from within and not have to be a physical defect or disease of the brain. one example might be an irrational phobia of which is overcome with desensitsation or in some of the older or more extreme cases "flooding" (check it up i cba to explain) which actually killed a few of its patients due to high levels of stress.

but as i said before most of freuds ideas (of which composes most of the psychodynamic approach) are complete crap and are acknowledged so by most psychologists. if you want something that is a bit more believable and practical look up things like deindividuation and zimbardos prison study or behaviourism in general or any of the biological models associated with psychology.
This is more or less the point I originally made. Some of pyschology is grounded in empirical observation, but some (well, a fair but actually) is pure quackery or, at least, hideously oversimplified. Its this side of things that needs to be rooted out to make it a proper science.

I like Zimbardo's research, its exactly the sort of crazy shit they don't allow any more. Really interesting stuff, ethical guidelines be damned! And Milgram, which is arguably a better piece of research but less sensational despite the truly shocking results (bad psychology pun there). I actually went to a lecture by Zimbardo in London. I found it ironic how a man who looks so much like the devil wrote a book called the lucifer effect and barely remembered a word he said.

I got an A at A=level psychology, so I was good at the shallow level I got to. I've heard that degree level psychology is much better. Maybe I've been tainted by my experiences.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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FightThePower said:
Eldritch Warlord said:
Psychology is a soft science. It deals with unquantifiable and often more abstract phenomena. Theories and observations of this nature can still have practical uses, but they are not based on things which can be described precisely.
No it does not. Psychology actually involves a lot of statistics; there a lot of different ways we gather data, some less scientific than others - case studies and stuff like that. But there are plenty of controlled laboratory experiments, something that you would see in one of the 'pure' sciences.
I was describing soft science in general there. Most of the soft sciences branch into hard science in some ways (and vice-versa), paleontologists have radio-carbon dating for example.

Really I would say that Psychology is the "hardest" soft science, similarly I'd say Biology is the "softest" hard science. This doesn't really change which they are or what a hard or soft science is characterized by.
 

Xanadu84

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Couple of things...

1) Look at some of the higher, more lofty, esoteric parts of Physics. If String Theory and Quantum Mechanics are Science, the Psychology has no problems in it's, "Softness".
2) Saying that Psychology isn't a real science is kind of like saying that all Video games are shooters. Psychology ranges from studying Neropsychology, looking at Seretonin Reuptake Mechanisms and it's effect on Neural conductivity, and Jungian dream archtype analysis. Any field that contains both Pavlov, a guy who fired you if you used an unscientific word like "Thought" or "Feeling", and Dr. Phil, needs a lot more division before you can make broad, sweeping statements.
3) In some ways, what makes Psychology "Soft" make it more difficult. Chemistry, you can observe a reaction, and make an observation. In Psychology, you have to go through hundreds of pages of statistical computations and Psychological models before you can, with some measure of reliability and validity, say that the observed effect is in fact what you say it is. In Psychology, it is impossible to remove every extraneous variable, meaning there is a much wider margin of error. Also, while no one cares what you do to an atom of Lithium, they do care what a child psychologist does with there toddler.

In the interest of fairness, I will point out that all of these factors in making a Psychologists job more difficult, also make it easier for Charlatans to get away with lies, and fools to lapse in rigor, and no one notices. The brain is possibly the most complex hunk of matter in the universe, and a Psychologist is limited to observing the emergent patterns, and making due from there. It's less like mathamatically designing a bridge in a computer program that is completely accurate, and more like throwing a watch against a wall, and trying to figure out how the watch works by measuring where the pieces fly. Does that make it less of a science? No, because I took that Metaphor from a description of how scientists learn from the LHC.

My degree is in Psychology, so let me, from what limited expertise I can boast, add a little to Psychology's credibility by telling you some things which are, Psychologically, complete bullshit.

Dream Analysis is Bullshit.
Ink Blot tests are Bullshit.
Lie Detectors, and all prevalent methods of lie detection are bullshit.
Freud and Jung are so bullshit, it's frightening (And they started the whole, "Sit on a couch and tell me your problems" idea).
Psychosexual development, and the Id, Ego, Superego thing are Freud, and therefore bullshit.
Criminal Profiling is Bullshit.
Any supernatural powers are Bullshit.
Dr. Phil is Bullshit.
Hypnotism does work, but any explanation on how exactly it works is Bullshit: We still don't know. In many situations, the leading statements and other matters of context render hypnosis bullshit.
Anger Management is Bullshit
Dreams may be more then a random collection of thoughts from the day with no meaning, but any attempt to say that there is any data to support this hypothesis is bullshit. More reasonable is that the individuals interpretation of a dream gives hints to that persons behavior. However, there is currently no data to support this, and therefore is bullshit.
This list is so small and partial, it's Bullshit.

Without real Psychology, we would be much more poorly equipped to discredit this bullshit Psychology. When you're thinking of Psychology is Bullshit, ask yourself if you have ever seen Psychology represented in movies or TV in a way that is not on the above list. A list that even I, with only a very broad backing in the field, can throw into the trash. Until you study the very specific, nitty gritty of the field, chances are you havn't seen actual Psychology.
 

Danzaivar

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FightThePower said:
As someone who does Psychology as my degree course:

Yes it is. If you don't think so you are just wrong.
I'm going to say to you what I say to every psychology student.

Big Mac and fries, please!

- - - -

OT: I'm half and half on the subject. My ex has a degree in Psychology and she is adamant that it's not a real science. So I tend to go with that.
 
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Cypher10110 said:
-snipped you- Because it looked like I had said things that I hadn't.
Definitions are transient, "science" used to be much the same as philosophy.

I don't see the need to make the distinction, psychologists observe behaviour and brain function(physical and otherwise), devise laws and theories...and then test the shit out of them in order to pool data for evaluation and to use as a basis for new theories. To me that's science...an ongoing quest for understanding.
 

Plazmatic

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Dango said:
1. Your avatar brings back good memories.

2. I think yes, as it has to do with the study of the human mind. But I'm also terrible at science, so don't ask me.
While I agree it is starting to become a science, it is not the study of the human mind, that gets reserved to a biological field, this is a more a study of human emotions and thought, not the mind.

its like saying the mouth is the same as speech.
 

Troublesome Lagomorph

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Yes, I think it's a valid science. It empirically studies the human mind. Even though it's more abstract than other, more established sciences it still uses the scientific method. It's also a fairly young science that I think we have yet to scratch the surface of.
 

capnpupster

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Sure it's a science, the problem is that attempting to apply it to individuals will always be a bit iffy. A lot of people don't seem to realize that psychology isn't just psychiatrists, there are people who use it to predict how crowds will react in a disaster, or how an economy will behave. Psychology is actually the primary factor in economics, though some traditional economists will still argue against this.
 

starwarsgeek

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I'll go with what my teacher said. Basically, it's unethical to test any psychological theories...at least, with current technology--who knows if someone will event something that will change all this. So, it is a science with only two laws, and a ton of theories. It is also an art, because it traces its roots to philosophy. This is why colleges have psychology degrees in science and art.