Is religion rational?

[Skeleon]

The pursuit of happiness is completely rational. Happiness is feedback mechanism for actions. It's the compound success of short term and long term. As soon as you cease to pursue it, you cease to grow, and you cease to succeed.

But those actions don't have to be rational to result in the feedback mechanism becoming active. The achieving of happiness can be done through countless ways, some more, some less rational than others. And why do we want to achieve happiness, anyway? Because we feel good then, no matter what is going on in the world outside. That's not rational. It's understandable and it's human, but it's not rational.

As for the bolded part, that bit I simply don't understand.
Often we drive back the pursuit of happiness for larger goals.

 

[Kubanator]

troll/flamer:

somebody who does not agree with the opposing argument of the majority of the board and does not feel a need to be polite about others stupidity

so, you guys wanna invest in my unicorn breeding business? it would be as rational as anything else on this forum so far...

Disagree if you like, but childish comments like these:

I used to be religious... then i TURNED 12!

are not part of civilized debate.

 

[Kubanator]

But those actions don't have to be rational to result in the feedback mechanism becoming active. The achieving of happiness can be done through countless ways, some more, some less rational than others.

As for the bolded part, that bit I simply don't understand.
Often we drive back the pursuit of happiness for larger goals.

They can be done through rational, or delusion, delusion being improper rational that seems proper to the individual in question. I can't delude myself, so rational is the way to go.

 

[NeutralDrow]

How is that supporting him? Iran's a mixed bag, to be sure, but not all of that can be laid at the hands of the clerics. Besides, his point was already destroyed.

Women's rights?

Steps forward until the Islamic Revolution, shoved way far back. Slow, painful steps forward until 2005.

My point? This guy is the worst thing to happen for women's rights in Iran since 1979, but he isn't a cleric:

Spoiler

Snip.

Dude, just give up trying to reason with that one. Obvious troll is REALLY FREAKING OBVIOUS.

Aww, I was having fun. I like quoting unnecessarily inflammatory statements and responding reasonably. I thought it wasn't feeding a troll unless you got angry...

 

[Skeleon]

Just in case you didn't see my EDIT:
And why do we want to achieve happiness, anyway? Because we feel good then, no matter what is going on in the world outside.
That's not rational. It's understandable and it's human, but it's not rational.

They can be done through rational, or delusion, delusion being improper rational that seems proper to the individual in question. I can't delude myself, so rational is the way to go.

Well, I would say that happiness is never truly rational, no matter through which means they are accomplished.
But that at the same time, we wouldn't want to be truly rational all the time anyway.

 

[Polar Atom]

As far as I'm concerned, Anthropologists theories that religion started when early man started asking questions about the world around them, and certain members of the tribe would come up with some creation story to answer these questions. Next, they think that these were expanded into early laws to keep early man in line and that this continued until sometime in the last hundred years.

Now, that science has exploded into the world we have a better, more rational explanation for everything. I think the most interesting point about this is, as the world became smaller and we became a global community how many religions were discovered.

 

[Raven's Nest]

[How many wars have been caused and lives lost through time have there been due to religion?

The answer is nowhere near the amount that have been fought in the name of politics, land or resources.

snip

I think we are virtually agreeing with eachother but have become lost in the terminology. Let's try replacing every instance of the word rational with that of make sense.

 

[Xanadeas]

In a sense it is both rational and irrational. People NEED something to believe in. They need an afterlife because the thought of ceasing to exist is quite terrifying. Thus that makes it quite a rational thing. However the way some people (not all) go about religion is quite irrational. Damning homosexuals and those with different beliefs for example is rather irrational. They do not follow your religion why expect them to follow your rules?

 

[scotth266]

Aww, I was having fun. I like quoting unnecessarily inflammatory statements and responding reasonably. I thought it wasn't feeding a troll unless you got angry...

That's just the thing though: what the troll wants is attention. Quoting him gives him the feeling of being acknowledged, aka just what he wants.

Sure, it's fun to destroy needlessly inflammatory statements, but you quoting him fills up the thread with more posts from him, which inevitably makes the thread more flamey because people on both sides of the fence see his responses and jump into the fray.

The best thing to do is ignore him until he gets his share of the Banmop, or whatever banning instrument the mods are employing today.

 

[Skeleon]

I think we are virtually agreeing with eachother but have become lost in the terminology. Let's try replacing every instance of the word rational with that of make sense.

That makes perfect sense!

 

[Woodsey]

[How many wars have been caused and lives lost through time have there been due to religion?

The answer is nowhere near the amount that have been fought in the name of politics, land or resources.

Those things are real though. Politics exist (we created it), land was definitely there last time I checked and I've got a box of Frosted Shreddies downstairs, so resources are definitely in the 'real' column as well.

 

[NeutralDrow]

The first part is debatable (possibly unknowable, something I'm banking on as an agnostic). The second part would be wrong to the point of pants-wetting hilarity, if it wasn't downright insulting. I don't mind bashing people like, say, <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-sadr>this guy.

Declaiming any credit for <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu>this guy, on the other hand, would be like spitting on Ghandi.

Much of what he did went in direct opposition of his religion. Good people do good things REGARDLESS of religion. but regular people can do terrible things which they would not be able to do without religion convincing them that it is ok.

Wrong. If you ask him, he's following his religion perfectly.

Aw, hell, doubly wrong. I rather doubt he's done anything the Anglican church disagrees with.

To argue that religion is a positive influence you should answer these questions

when did you hear about the last atheist suicide bomber/terrorist attack?

1995.

why is their such a low percentage of atheists in prisons (much lower than the percent of atheists in the general population)?

Because self-proclaimed atheists are, like, 1-2% of the population.

Blind faith is irrational and leads to terrible actions and atrocities.

Stalin says hi.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Aww, I was having fun. I like quoting unnecessarily inflammatory statements and responding reasonably. I thought it wasn't feeding a troll unless you got angry...

That's just the thing though: what the troll wants is attention. Quoting him gives him the feeling of being acknowledged, aka just what he wants.

...*sigh* dammit, you're right.

Just wish you hadn't ninja'd me with that. ^_^

 

[Raven's Nest]

Much of what he did went in direct opposition of his religion. Good people do good things REGARDLESS of religion. but regular people can do terrible things which they would not be able to do without religion convincing them that it is ok.
To argue that religion is a positive influence you should answer these questions

when did you hear about the last atheist suicide bomber/terrorist attack?

why is their such a low percentage of atheists in prisons (much lower than the percent of atheists in the general population)?

Blind faith is irrational and leads to terrible actions and atrocities.

My biggest criticisms of your comments stem from the fact that you are generalizing far too much. Whether you like it or not 99% of religous people are decent, hardworking, law abiding citizens whose community spirit is one of charity and goodwill. I will not stand to see you criticise all religion on the grounds that some insane person uses it as an excuse to commit terrible attrocities. Does it not occur to you that the thought of fundamental terrorism absolutley infuriates the Muslim population? I know this because I have many Muslim friends who are absolutely disgusted with hate preachers and their radical Islamic groups.

What percentage of reigious people have strapped a bomb to their chests and threatened to blow people up for not believing in god?

There is evidence that these suicide bombers are brainwashed into doing so. You cannot deny this because it is fact. Yes there are people who willingly do it but they DO NOT represent the views of their entire religious community.

I find you guilty of spreading your ignorance and intolerance all over this thread. I'm only writing this because you claim not to be a troll. Prove yourself right and stop acting like one.