Is Silent Hill 2 the best game ever made?

[Sniper Team 4]

I'll put it up there as the best horror game, because it frightened me so badly that I still have not beat it to this day. The game gave me actual nightmares. And it wasn't jump scares or anything like that. It was the same thing that so many people always point out: the atmosphere, that feeling of hopelessness, and the bat-crazy stuff that went down. Brr...

But best game ever made, even from a story standpoint? Hm...not in my book. I can think of a few games that had a more engaging story to me, all of which I'm sure people would disagree with violently.

 

[stroopwafel]

My point is, I think for the most part you get exactly what the devs intended. Combat is primitive, but it's deliberately primitive. No dodging, rolling, crouching, countering, or QTEs (which everybody complained about, by the way, when they showed up in Origins). Take your stick and figure it out. It's very much doable.

That is absolutely true. I'd say the combat is 'functional' in that it serves the purpose of the game, but taken out of context it isn't very good on its own merits in my opinion. I think a greater amount of effort has been put in the game's artistic design(which is what people remember it for) rather than its gameplay systems. Which are all a bit wonky. I don't think much of this is necessarily deliberate. This game was made before Resident Evil 4 revolutionized the control scheme of basically every game in third person and games had just barely evolved beyond the PS1 pre-rendered phase. So having somewhat 3D movement(despite how clumsy it was) was actually a pretty big step forward. Similarly as Code Veronica and its 3D effects.

Like Shinji said the PS2 was also unable to render objects far in the background, so they had to mask these limitations. That a dense fog gave SH2 its eeriness was a nice side-effect of what probably wouldn't really be a deliberate design choice if hardware allowed for greater processing power. Similarly as the clumsy camera(either too close or bouncing all over the place) can be retro-actively explained as disorienting the player or the combat as disempowering the player; I believe these to be mere coincidences that worked out really well in the context of the game rather than deliberately planned for. The grainy filter however was a touch of brilliance.

I'm not a designer myself but I can imagine that when gameplay mechanics improve as hardware advances that you won't strip back on features that have more or less become the norm(hence why 'classic' survival horror pretty much died when consoles allowed for full 3D rendering) but certain genres like horror actually benefitted from 'creativity through limitation'.

This is much like horror movies and old VHS tapes. The grainy effect of the tapes combined with the practical make-up in the movies themselves allow for an experience that is impossible to replicate with slick high-res CGI graphics.

 

[tippy2k2]

I'll put it up there as the best horror game, because it frightened me so badly that I still have not beat it to this day. The game gave me actual nightmares. And it wasn't jump scares or anything like that. It was the same thing that so many people always point out: the atmosphere, that feeling of hopelessness, and the bat-crazy stuff that went down. Brr...

But best game ever made, even from a story standpoint? Hm...not in my book. I can think of a few games that had a more engaging story to me, all of which I'm sure people would disagree with violently.

Ding! I 100% agree here (though it didn't give me nightmares but in your defense, I can't remember the last time I had a dream so maybe Silent Hill 2 has given me such strong nightmares that my brain shuts itself down in fear at night).

However, unlike you, I'm stupid enough to name off two games that I think did story-telling better (and even better since both of them cause endless arguments; especially the second one I'm about to name). I already partially derailed the hell out of the "overrated that aren't" thread; might as well see if it happens again

The Last of Us and Spec-Ops: The Line

Like Silent Hill, both of these games rely on the story to carry some...sketchy game-play and like Silent Hill, if they get their claws into you, they can be some of the best gaming experiences you will experience. LoU grabbed my emotions and made them dance to its tune as the story unfolded while Spec-Ops is one of the very few games where I actively felt terrible (in a good way) over what I'd done but I couldn't put it down as I was fascinated with the journey into the mind of someone going nutter butters.

Silent Hill 2 (and 1 & 3) are great experiences that I would recommend to anyone who doesn't mind the retro-grade graphics and wants an actual scary game, not a "BOOOO!!!! HA HA, I totally scared you with that loud noise!". But I feel that other games have dethroned it for having the best story.

 

[Nazulu]

It cannot be, on the fact that the gameplay is atrocious.

Mind you, that had 0 effect on it being one of the most incredible experiences I've had with a game, I love it to death.

I don't believe game play should be numero uno when judging the overall quality. Personally, I judge by how many great moments it has to offer. Doesn't have to be the most re-playable to have the biggest impact. Like I believe 2001: A Space Odyssey has one of the greatest scenes I've ever seen, though I'm not in a hurry to re-watch it because I find most of it rather tedious.

I haven't been able to play Silent Hill 2 yet, though I do own it for PS2. This thread is making me a little hyped for it. Hope I'll be able to get through it too, since horror games scare me a lot more than horror films.

It's not about being 'the numero uno', it's about being serviceable. Silent Hill 2 does get carried by it's story and atmosphere, but it's still worth pointing it out. Hell, it's the reason why Silent Hill 4, which arguably has a nearly as good of a story, gets so much flack. The gameplay screwed the pooch a bit too much for the story to save it.

But it is serviceable, we can tell by how many people love it.

Every game is going to have flaws, and big ones, even if it doesn't seem like it, and this is why I mainly focus on it's most special moments. If it has parts that amazed you the most then it is eligible for nomination.

 

[Alma Mare]

It cannot be, on the fact that the gameplay is atrocious.

Mind you, that had 0 effect on it being one of the most incredible experiences I've had with a game, I love it to death.

I don't believe game play should be numero uno when judging the overall quality. Personally, I judge by how many great moments it has to offer. Doesn't have to be the most re-playable to have the biggest impact. Like I believe 2001: A Space Odyssey has one of the greatest scenes I've ever seen, though I'm not in a hurry to re-watch it because I find most of it rather tedious.

I haven't been able to play Silent Hill 2 yet, though I do own it for PS2. This thread is making me a little hyped for it. Hope I'll be able to get through it too, since horror games scare me a lot more than horror films.

It's not about being 'the numero uno', it's about being serviceable. Silent Hill 2 does get carried by it's story and atmosphere, but it's still worth pointing it out. Hell, it's the reason why Silent Hill 4, which arguably has a nearly as good of a story, gets so much flack. The gameplay screwed the pooch a bit too much for the story to save it.

But it is serviceable, we can tell by how many people love it.

Every game is going to have flaws, and big ones, even if it doesn't seem like it, and this is why I mainly focus on it's most special moments. If it has parts that amazed you the most then it is eligible for nomination.

Find me one people who loves the mechanics in that game, please. I've yet to see one. And in my book, 'serviceable' doesn't cut it for "best game ever".

I don't think this game needs Bayonetta levels of gameplay, I accept it for what it is. I love it for what it is. I still think that the medium ought to be able to do better as far as mixing engaging gameplay with storytelling.

At the end of the day, I loved the fact that I got to experience it once. I completely lack the will to go through it again because the act of playing it is not enjoyable in the least to offset the fact I know the story. For me this tells me the 'game' part of it fell flat. If a game needs to be 'endured' to be appreciated, then something fell short.

 

[Nazulu]

It cannot be, on the fact that the gameplay is atrocious.

Mind you, that had 0 effect on it being one of the most incredible experiences I've had with a game, I love it to death.

I don't believe game play should be numero uno when judging the overall quality. Personally, I judge by how many great moments it has to offer. Doesn't have to be the most re-playable to have the biggest impact. Like I believe 2001: A Space Odyssey has one of the greatest scenes I've ever seen, though I'm not in a hurry to re-watch it because I find most of it rather tedious.

I haven't been able to play Silent Hill 2 yet, though I do own it for PS2. This thread is making me a little hyped for it. Hope I'll be able to get through it too, since horror games scare me a lot more than horror films.

It's not about being 'the numero uno', it's about being serviceable. Silent Hill 2 does get carried by it's story and atmosphere, but it's still worth pointing it out. Hell, it's the reason why Silent Hill 4, which arguably has a nearly as good of a story, gets so much flack. The gameplay screwed the pooch a bit too much for the story to save it.

But it is serviceable, we can tell by how many people love it.

Every game is going to have flaws, and big ones, even if it doesn't seem like it, and this is why I mainly focus on it's most special moments. If it has parts that amazed you the most then it is eligible for nomination.

Find me one people who loves the mechanics in that game, please. I've yet to see one. And in my book, 'serviceable' doesn't cut it for "best game ever".

I don't think this game needs Bayonetta levels of gameplay, I accept it for what it is. I love it for what it is. I still think that the medium ought to be able to do better as far as mixing engaging gameplay with storytelling.

At the end of the day, I loved the fact that I got to experience it once. I completely lack the will to go through it again because the act of playing it is not enjoyable in the least to offset the fact I know the story. For me this tells me the 'game' part of it fell flat. If a game needs to be 'endured' to be appreciated, then something fell short.

Sorry, but you've missed my point. Not everything has to be perfect to qualify for best game in my book, just has to do something amazing.

I have no doubt everyone has their own needs to be fulfilled before they could qualify a game, but no matter what game you mention, I will find faults in it that I could say weigh down the experience. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Alma Mare]

No, I didn't miss your point. I just think your point is wrong.

 

[moggett88]

No - because the best game ever made is Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon (N64). The only part of that game I don't love is the part where it's on a console I no longer own, and I haven't found an emulated version that doesn't freeze around the first Impact fight.

I'm sure Silent Hill 2 is very lovely though.

 

[Skops]

My biggest problem with Silent Hill 2 is that its boring until you reach the Brookhaven Hospital. Aside from Pyramid Head's first appearance, nothing interesting or disturbing happens and it's a complete snore.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Honestly, I never understood the...fan-base of this game?
I mean its good and all, but I thought Silent Hill 3 and 4 were better. At least there was some investment with the characters in 3 and 4 was so twisted and out-there, you can't help but love it. Silent Hill 2 though? A game about people we don't know, doing things to/for other people we don't know, finally ending in a twist that the person we never met(who we were told is dead) is dead.
Not exactly Hamlet, is it?

Whereas in 3? Holy hell! Heather is a teenager! I was a teenager once! And all the rape/sexual imagery is genuinely creepy.
And 4? I live in an apartment! And it'd be totally creepy if the door was chained shut and ghosts were mucking about.

But if I got a letter from my 3-years dead wife? I'd just assume it was a 4chan troll and ignore it.

 

[Someone Depressing]

It's not quite the best video game ever made, but it's one of the best examples of art that has been created in video game development. It's not a game I could relate to personally but the game has left a very lasting effect on me. I could relate better to 3 because when I was a teenager I was all like "ew sex fuck that", and all the sexual imagery that the game has genuinely freaked me out at times.

It does not, however, qualify for "best video game ever made" because the game parts and story parts do not. At all. It's the fatal flaw of the Silent Hill series. The gameplay is plagued with odd bugs, terrible swinging cameras, and generally being quite shit. This is why I don't like where the series has gone lately: with better gameplay, but lesser, more westernised stories. Silent Hill just doesn't work without, well, the Japanese elements.

So no, Silent Hill 2 isn't a good game. Not even 3, which I love to death. They're great stories that are well-written and fascinating but also with a fantasy horror twist, but not good games. They are, in fact, quite horrendous games.

 

[Fox12]

I don't think there is a "best game" ever made... but Silent Hill 2 is probably the most subtle. It's not my favorite game of all time, but if I had to hold up one example of video games as high art... I wouldn't choose Shadow of the Colossus, Journey, Zelda, Bioshock, Mass Effect, or The Last of Us. I'd choose Silent Hill 2.

Silent Hill 2 is, frankly, GENIUS. It probably has the single greatest use of symbolism in gaming, and it did it over ten years ago. Games today can barely even grasp the basics of symbolism, whereas Silent Hill 2 mastered it two generations ago. Every aspect of the games structural design is brilliant, not even Dark Souls can quite match it in terms of visual focus and subtle story telling. It's like a piece of fine poetry, with everything having its place in the overall narrative. EVERYTHING is symbolic.

When you find an important item, the game uses the item to highlight a theme of the story. You don't find the flashlight lying on the ground, for instance, like in other games. When you discover the flashlight, it's attached to a mannequin wearing your wife's clothes. When you enter the room, the camera focuses on the mannequin. The room is completely dark, but the flashlight is on, illuminating the dummy. As a result it becomes the clear visual focal point of the shot. The mannequin, of course, is hugely symbolic, as it is wearing your wife's clothes from before she died. When you remove the flashlight, a new monster is introduced, which is, itself, symbolic. The structure of the room also teaches you how to use your new flashlight. You can use it to illuminate threats you didn't realize were there. However, your light will also draw enemies toward you, so you can turn it off to avoid trouble. The level design teaches you all of this through the mechanics, and doesn't feel the need to interrupt the action through lengthy tutorials. This one little section is symbolic, but it also teaches you about gameplay mechanics. It's so genius that I have yet to see a single developer utilize its brilliance since, including team silent itself.
http://youtu.be/alR6jZhv4uU?t=5m41s

There's also the symbolism of the monsters. Every enemy is sexualized, except for Pyramid Head, who you never kill (he either leaves or kills himself). This means that, every single time you do something as trivial as kill a monster, your doing something symbolic. It's reminiscent of James's violence against his wife. The game actually utilizes gameplay to reinforce the themes of the story. People keep prattling on about gaming's "Citizen Kane" moment, when they don't realize that its already come and gone. It's Silent Hill 2, and its brilliant.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Let me explain why I think Silent Hill 2 is one of the best games ever made ("at least, from a storytelling perspective" as OP puts it).

There will be SPOILERS.

Very few games try to deal with inner conflict, let alone succeed so brilliantly in doing so. I could go on about symbolism and subtlety and whatever (all very well executed) but really what ties it all together is the conflict, or dramatic progress of the story.

There's a basic dramatic cycle in developing conflict. You take a theme or value and then scale up the drama by opposing it against its Contradictory, Contrary and Negatory counterparts. If the theme is Truth, then the story has to set up its protagonist against the False, the Untrue and finally Denial or Self-Deception. That's how good drama plays out: obstacles increase in quality and choices become harder until it's all about a climactic choice. Choosing between what is right and what is wrong is a boring conundrum. Everybody will always choose what they think is best for them. Real dramatic weight comes from choosing between something like the lesser of two evils, or two irreconcilable goods.

Silent Hill 2's narrative brilliance comes from following this simple yet timeless dramatic structure.

If SH2's main theme/topic/value is Freedom, then its Contradictory/Contrary/Negatory counterparts are Aggression, Oppression and Repression. Monsters attack the protagonist (Aggression), contradicting his basic Freedom. But it's all the more problematic when it is made evident that the town itself is subtly manipulating Jimbo (Oppression), negating his Freedom even in victory over Aggression. But even when he has successfully navigated his way through the town's oppressive labyrinth, Jimbo has yet to face the Anticrist of Freedom, "the negation of the negation", which is his own self-denial (Repression). And here comes the dramatic choice: does he forgive himself and become Free, or does he atone for his sins and succumb to Repression?

That's why I think there's something special about Silent Hill 2. It develops its conflict thoroughly with perfect dramatic pacing. And the conflict works both on an external and internal level. That's why the story has resonated so profoundly with so many people: it's about an inner journey. Not a lot of games try that, let alone pull it off.

So no, Silent Hill 2 isn't a good game. Not even 3, which I love to death. They're great stories that are well-written and fascinating but also with a fantasy horror twist, but not good games. They are, in fact, quite horrendous games.

I think they're terrific games. The gameplay never bothered me.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Double Post.

 

[Kyrian007]

snip

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But snip

Find me one people who loves the mechanics in that game, please. I've yet to see one. And in my book, 'serviceable' doesn't cut it for "best game ever".

Here. I do love SH 2's mechanics. And it's because they are "serviceable" or even "bad." In 90% of games with "good" mechanics your heroes and playable characters are elite mercenaries, special forces, etc... someone who reacts to violence and fear differently than the more "average person." Someone who may be at their best under such circumstances.

That's NOT James Sunderland. The unruly camera, the terrible controls... it adds to the atmosphere of desolation and tension. The developers turned a negative into a positive. Much like they did with the graphic capabilities of the PS1 and PS2.

I couldn't tell you that I think Silent HIll 2 is the perfect, best game ever. But if it isn't, you can see it from there.

 

[Mikejames]

I love me some Silent Hill 2, but it's difficult for me to think of any singular game as having the best writing that I've ever seen. Different stories try to accomplish different things. Walking Dead made me cry, Psychonauts made me laugh, etc.

Honestly, I never understood the...fan-base of this game?
I mean its good and all, but I thought Silent Hill 3 and 4 were better. At least there was some investment with the characters in 3 and 4 was so twisted and out-there, you can't help but love it. Silent Hill 2 though? A game about people we don't know, doing things to/for other people we don't know, finally ending in a twist that the person we never met(who we were told is dead) is dead.
Not exactly Hamlet, is it?

Whereas in 3? Holy hell! Heather is a teenager! I was a teenager once! And all the rape/sexual imagery is genuinely creepy.
And 4? I live in an apartment! And it'd be totally creepy if the door was chained shut and ghosts were mucking about.

Every Silent Hill tries to follow a different character study, not surprising that a few would resonate more with some people than others.

I liked Heather, and think that SH3 has some of the best scares in the series, but I thought her revenge story was a little more cut-and-dried. SH2 resonated with me more because there wasn't a definitive villain to it; it was more-so what the characters were internally dealing with. Loss, self-loathing, guilt, etc. It's a conflict that allows for more than overcoming something through brute force.

And SH4 had a great premise; the initial atmosphere of the apartment when you realize that the people you see outside have no way of hearing or helping you? It was great. Unfortunately, I thought the execution of the rest of the game was all over the place.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Find me one people who loves the mechanics in that game, please. I've yet to see one. And in my book, 'serviceable' doesn't cut it for "best game ever".

I thought the mechanics of the game were quite good.

 

[IceForce]

I am now moving on from this topic in which I do not want to be reminded of again thank you.

I'm not sure I understand. What keeps "reminding" you of this topic?

 

[raeior]

This might be a bit offtopic buuuuuut:
So far I only played Silent Hill Homecoming which was...okayish? Certainly nothing to write home about.
I played a few hours of Silent Hill 2 over the weekend and something that already bothered me in SH5 bothered me again there. It's practically the same problem I have with horror movies. The characters are so...weird. The dialogue with Angela? (the girl with the knife in the hotel) was kinda okay, especially the one in the hotel was quite cool since she was acting so erratically. Except for the "weren't you searching for someone? Ohhh right off I go!" bit.
The guy you meet in the hotel though...so after you met several monsters, realized theres something definitely wrong with the town and he saw those things too...you just leave him there with a farewell and a "watch out for yourself"? This kind of horror logic already bothered me in SH5 were the character complained about trash cans not being emptied (cans sprayed with blood on the outside no less) and similar stupid things after having fought several zombie dogs and having seen the mayor working on the graveyard to bury half the town's population.

Soo I love the atmosphere and the gameplay doesn't bother me too much but will dialogues of this kind continue to happen? I'm not sure if this is supposed to increase the weirdness factor a la the character isn't even realizing in what kind of situation he is and still acts normal despite all thats happening around him? I just met Mary and her dialogue was also a bit too "No everything is fine I'm just looking for my wife" heavy.

 

[Fox12]

This might be a bit offtopic buuuuuut:
So far I only played Silent Hill Homecoming which was...okayish? Certainly nothing to write home about.
I played a few hours of Silent Hill 2 over the weekend and something that already bothered me in SH5 bothered me again there. It's practically the same problem I have with horror movies. The characters are so...weird. The dialogue with Angela? (the girl with the knife in the hotel) was kinda okay, especially the one in the hotel was quite cool since she was acting so erratically. Except for the "weren't you searching for someone? Ohhh right off I go!" bit.
The guy you meet in the hotel though...so after you met several monsters, realized theres something definitely wrong with the town and he saw those things too...you just leave him there with a farewell and a "watch out for yourself"? This kind of horror logic already bothered me in SH5 were the character complained about trash cans not being emptied (cans sprayed with blood on the outside no less) and similar stupid things after having fought several zombie dogs and having seen the mayor working on the graveyard to bury half the town's population.

Soo I love the atmosphere and the gameplay doesn't bother me too much but will dialogues of this kind continue to happen? I'm not sure if this is supposed to increase the weirdness factor a la the character isn't even realizing in what kind of situation he is and still acts normal despite all thats happening around him? I just met Mary and her dialogue was also a bit too "No everything is fine I'm just looking for my wife" heavy.

It's... Difficult to explain. I'll say that I felt the same as you the first time I played, but when I replayed it I caught onto a lot of the subtler implications of the dialogue. I will admit, however, that guy cihi and the other voice actors weren't always the best.

If the characters behavior seems off kilter, it's because they're damaged psychologically. These aren't normal people, otherwise they wouldn't find themselves in silent hill. James makes multiple questionable decisions, but it's clear this is done intentionally. He has a working car, why not leave? Because he has nothing to live for, and nowhere to go. There's a theme of discovering truth. Why is there a child wandering around a monster infested town? Because, for her, there are no monsters. Except, perhaps, for you. Why does he stick his hand in a hole after bring stung? Why does he jump down a pit? His behavior is not natural, but it's not supposed to be.

Keep in mind that most of the story is told through visual metaphor, not through dialogue. It's like dark souls, where visual motifs and descriptions matter more then what people say. It's tough nut to crack, SH2 does have a lot of substance.