Is Square racist?

[WinterOrbit]

Because this thread isn't frivolous enough:

 

[00slash00]

oh..my..god....
and i thought mr. popo, in dragon ball z, was bad. anyway, i dont think theres any true hatred behind that representation so i dont think id call it racist. not particularly classy though either. i mean, the black guy in final fantasy 13 was probably the only likable character in the game

 

[13lackfriday]

There was this whole incident over the Pokemon Jinx because a black activist author thought her face was a racist caricature, and actually had episodes containing her taken off the air.

I think the Japanese were actually in the right there: they had a creative vision that some overly reactionary person decided to take offense at.

 

[Monkfish Acc.]

So it's okay to be racist as long as the culture you're in says it's okay to be racist?

Your definition of racism is based on wishy-washy relativism. I'm pretty sure slave-owners weren't intending to be "malicious", just to make money in a way that was basically deemed socially acceptable. In the same way, it's possible to be racist even just by manifesting social prejudices that pervade your environment. Again, by your definition it seems like people can be racist, but groups of people can't.

No. Okay. I'm saying it wrong.
Are they portraying black people as stupid or evil? Are they saying black guys are lesser in some way? No, they're not. They're using a set of stereotypical physical characteristics that are only offensive in the west.

Black people DO have bigger lips and darker skin. It's racist to caricaturise those features over here because it is KNOWN as offensive and is done deliberately to insult. Over there, there is no insult intended, it's just what it is. A harmless caricature.

If they made him and every other black character a violent backwater idiot, it would be racism. If the whole country said it was okay to make him and every other black character a violent backwater idiot, it would be a culture of racism and, while wrong, there isn't much you can do about it.

Ugh, I'm probably still saying it wrong. I'm really fucking tired, okay. The point I'm trying to make is the caricature itself isn't racist. The history and intent behind it is. And that history and intent isn't prevalent over there

Or something.

 

[SodaDew]

Any old style game,book, or any form of media showing 'racist things' I feel is a important part of history for example, I own 2 post cards of 'Black Americans' being shown the same was as in the OP's picture. But I consider it a important part of history to hold on to ( Now Barret on the other hand was just for humor)

 

[Mordwyl]

It's not just for black people. All of Nomura's leads (FFVII onwards) are pale, skinny and for the most part Asian-looking girly men that whine constantly when there's bigger problems to worry about (i.e. A giant meteor about to destroy the planet, a witch from the future disrupting space-time, an eldritch abomination constantly endangering everyone in the world, etc.).

 

[reddfawks]

At least Square acknowledges that other races exist. They may only be familiar with those races from TV shows from the 80s, but at least it's a sort of progress.

I was actually going to bring that up. Didn't Nomura (or, at least one of the designers) say something about basing his design for Sazh out of a mix of Eddie Murphy and Lionel Ritchie? I lol'd.

 

[Toriver]

a better question is are the Japanese racist, and yes they are, really most cultures are pretty racist, when it comes down to it the US is probably one of the least racist around.... for the most part

Yep, they will even admit it themselves (though not proudly). Several guides on Japan I have read, written by Japanese people, have the very sentence "Japan is a racist country" as the opening line in their articles about Japan and race. They will not deny it. Though as others have said, it's more of an ignorant/stereotyping racism than it is a malicious form of racism... unless you're talking about the Chinese or Koreans, or the US did something to upset Japan recently.

 

[Treefingers]

Who cares? You have one example that is over 20 years old to back up your claims. (I'm not counting the FF7 claim, because that isn't racist at all.) You're just being overly pedantic and politically correct for the sake of being overly pedantic and politically correct.

I'm going to take a rough guess and say that you're white?

It'd explain why you don't care about the more covert forms of racism, is all.

 

[Wintermoot]

unlike the US Japan isn't a cultural malting pot so they have little to no experience with black people.

 

[jovack22]

hahaha this made me laugh

also it reminds me of the old black and white cartoons.

 

[mireko]

I think it's a fallacy, though, to assume that racism has to be intentional rather than just culturally manifested.

Okay, that's a good point. I suppose it's only fair to judge the caricature on its own merits, and now I'm a little embarrassed for not doing that from the start. As for the thread title itself, they don't seem to do this anymore. It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but they seem to have learned from past mistakes, so calling the company racist might be a little excessive.

I'm trying to remember other black characters in Square-Enix games, but there's really just that, Barrett and Sazh. I played FFVII when I was 11 or something, so my memory isn't too clear there. Sazh wasn't bad, though.

[sub]Not that I liked him much as a character. Threatening to kill a ??-year old girl is kind of unpleasant. Doubly so when everyone's so poorly-written that they act drunk half the time.[/sub]

 

[Fappy]

I'm sorry, thats just funny.

Anyway, I would say yes. But all Japanese are inherently racist.

This is supposed to be ironic right? LOL

 

[Baralak]

I think it's a fallacy, though, to assume that racism has to be intentional rather than just culturally manifested.

Okay, that's a good point. I suppose it's only fair to judge the caricature on its own merits, and now I'm a little embarrassed for not doing that from the start. As for the thread title itself, they don't seem to do this anymore. It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but they seem to have learned from past mistakes, so calling the company racist might be a little excessive.

I'm trying to remember other black characters in Square-Enix games, but there's really just that, Barrett and Sazh. I played FFVII when I was 11 or something, so my memory isn't too clear there. Sazh wasn't bad, though.

[sub]Not that I liked him much as a character. Threatening to kill a ??-year old girl is kind of unpleasant. Doubly so when everyone's so poorly-written that they act drunk half the time.[/sub]

Barret was slightly stereotyped, but he was a fully fleshed out character, right down to

Spoiler

Loving his adopted daughter that he got when his best friend died

My main question is, why is EVERY non-white character that doesn't COMPLETELY go against EVERY stereotype somehow racist? Do people forget that stereotypes are not only -not- inherently racist, but were all based upon truth? There'd be no stereotypes if there weren't tons of people living them everyday.

In fact, I'd be willing to argue that most stereotypes are closer to real life than many people are comfortable with. A version of the Uncanny Valley, if you will.

-end rant-

 

[MasterChief892039]

Ha - oh wow. What a lovely screen cap.

Is Square still racist today? I would imagine that depends on your definition of racism. Is it racist to include mainly white characters, and Westernize the appearance of your Asian characters? Is it racist to include one "token black guy" in nearly every one of your games? Is it racist to give that character a stereotypical afro that has small animals living it it?

Square obviously has some issues with diversity, but in the present I'd say they aren't "racist" so much as they are exactly the same as every other game company.

 

[RelexCryo]

I found this image when I was reading about Square's Tom Sawyer, which was released in 1989 and--in spite of being based on the work of a popular American novelist--never made it stateside. Anyway, I think the depiction of Jim in it speaks for itself:

Anyway--what do you guys think? This isn't the first instance of racial insensitivity unearthed in Squaresoft's games--take Barret in Final Fantasy VII, for example (to boot: he beat his chest). I also think that a lot of people are likely to offer cultural apologia--to claim that Japan is different--but I'm not sure if that's really an adequate explanation.

Sorry to be so horribly PC, but this is just the way I feel.

Um...with regards to Barrett...I don't recall him beating his chest. He didn't even have two hands to do so with. He was also a loving father, and, interestingly enough, the most powerful character in the game. He was more powerful than Cloud, by a lot.

 

[Yopaz]

Anyway--what do you guys think? This isn't the first instance of racial insensitivity unearthed in Squaresoft's games--take Barret in Final Fantasy VII,

You are aware that the word "first" indicates that it happened before the even in question, right? I am pretty sure Final Fantasy VII was made after Tom Sawyer. The picture in question is easily a product of a limited colour palette.
All the time when any game developer wants to have a character that isn't a white male of age 10-40 they suffer from not being able to determine how he/she is going to be. Then they go for the stereotype.

As you said in your original post some of us will mention that Japan is different, and yes, that's true. Japan has had a history of being racists. \If I am not mistaken the Japanese word for foreigner also mean savage or something like it. Is this racist? Probably not, my bet is on stupidity.

 

[RA92]

Seriously, people need to stop tossing around the word "racism" like it's cheap fucking cigars.

Cigars are cheap?

And you throw them away? O_O

OT: Hmmm... I wonder how a Japanese would react to this thread...

 

[Watchmacallit]

Meh. The old Bugs Bunny used to have a Black Cotton Picker chasing him instead. Racism was big back then.