Is Street Fighter Sexist/Racist?

[Requia]

Having breasts isn't a negative. Creating a characters whose breasts are so large that they would interfere with walking, let along fighting enemies, is a negative. That has nothing to do with masculine or feminine. If a woman has large muscles and small breasts, she isn't less of a woman as a result. YOU see big boobs as a feminine trait and big muscles as a masculine trait.

You've stated flat out that feminine traits which are bad for the character are bad, but masculine traits which are bad for the character aren't.

Nope. I stated flat out that having big muscles isn't a masculine trait, not is having big boobs a feminine trait. Please, don't lie about what I said.

Boobs are a sexual trait, which is different. They are a secondary sexual characteristic. And drawing a character that emphasizes sexual traits over basic competency is sexist.

A) Big muscles are a secondary sexual characteristic, an *extremely* strong woman who doesn't resort to androgenic drugs would be around 200lb lean body mass.

B) You are continuously attempting to change the subject away from the *other* male secondary sexual characteristics (low bodyfat and low water content) that you stated don't matter even though they impair performance when taken to the extreme shown in street fighter.

 

[Requia]

Real world issues with dehydration doesn't change that.

Your exact words, real world performance issues on the men do not matter, yet somehow real world performance issues for the women do, that's called sexism.

 

[Vorlayn]

I think the terms "racist" and "sexist" have been under heavy inflation recently. It seems every time a piece of fiction is released with someone in it who just might have a minor link to a stereotype, a lot of people are instantly up in arms about it. Well, in my humble opinion, too bad for them.

Point one: it's fiction. As in, NOT REAL. I find the reality that fiction creators have to listen, or worse, bend to the political correctness-crowd much more disturbing than their supposed offense.

Point two: so there is a non-whiteskinned fellow with a nosering. Or, oh gasp, a female with large breasts. How the bleep do you even make the mental leap from that to racism or sexism? Where does this even have the possibility of leading to discrimination, slavery or whatever else that gets thrown around so casually? How does the depiction, or even description, of a forebum automagically lead to (I assume, males) disrespecting all women?

Let's look at the leaps you have to make. First off, that the character has any relation to the view of the creator about something in real life. Pretty big leap already. Next, that said message is what the correctness-crowd thinks it is. From there, that whatever it is is the view that "this" is specifically meant to denigrate. Then, from there, that "this" is about all women/ethnic-group-members/whoever is being "attacked". Then we have to leap to the creator trying to not just spread, but force this opinion of this on others. If just spread, then it is (assuming all earlier assumptions) still an (unpleasant to some) instance of freedom of speech, after all. Good enough to protest, but not necessarily racism or sexism yet. Then, another leap, to them using this to spread said "message", then on to them having some motive to actively pursue a reality where their "message" comes closer to being the reality. You still with me? Good, explain it to me please, because you lost me a couple of leaps back.

Point three: in this specific case, there is indeed a dark-skinned fellow displayed in an unfavorable light. Guess what, the mastermind of that evil (and therefore, obviously, a much worse person), our dear friend Bison, is white. Do we see white males up in arms about that? Or when WASPy Americans/Germans/Russians get shot up in some shooter? Isn't the fact that that produces very little outcry on its own testament enough to the ridiculousness of this whole "issue"?

No, I don't think every woman in a game should be a "bimbo". Or heroes only male. Why? Because that is boring! Not because of some incomprehensibly silly and completely fallacious racism- or sexism-argument. Games are fiction, they should remain fiction, and therefore remain free of misguided content-control. IMO, people who believe they are personally being attacked by a piece of fiction need toe-surgery, theirs are wayyy too long. Do not view everything as an attack. It's not good for your bloodpressure, and aggravates others needlessly. Not to mention causing massive rambling threads on forums.

 

[Robert Marrs]

I have tried for a very long time to figure out the mentality behind the -ism obsessed. I finally have a theory. Its professional victimhood. These people look for racism or sexism in everything because they need that racism/sexism to exist everywhere for their views and feelings to be validated. If racism or sexism ceases to be a part of every day life and starts to just become a fringe thing (which it is for the most part) social justice groups become irrelevant. You have to stir the pot and make controversy where there is none or people will stop caring about your cause.

Before you accuse me of "victim blaming" when I say professional victim let me explain what it means. A professional victim is someone who either constantly puts themselves in positions where they know they will be victimized so they can gain sympathy, or someone who has their entire world built up around them being a victim of society, not individuals. The professional victim of society will constantly try to draw up reasons as to why something is some sort of -ism. They will use their victim mentality to never be responsible for the things that happen to them or people in their demographic (some feminists are pros at this as seen with the theory that women who are supposed to be equal lose all accountability for their actions when drinking or that they should have the ability to withdraw consent after the fact) while at the same time using it as a weapon to try and shut anybody up that wants a piece of their victim pie or disputes the discrimination they say exists.

These people need to keep doing things like calling street fighter racist or sexist, when its really just a game that uses every campy stereotype it can find, because extreme amounts of sexism/racism is the only thing that excuses extreme views or tactics on those subjects. The whole point of a revolution is resolution but when you have so much money being poured into groups that depend on discrimination to exist to continue getting money and on the other hand people who depend on that discrimination existing so they can continue to express and hold onto a professional victim mentality you can bet the REAL problems we have will never get solved. Its the same reason they say we get medicine not cures. Cures put people out of jobs and make companies lose money.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Wow

As a black man, Capcom has done some stuff to piss me off. IE. Resident Evil 5. But I don't think that they come from a place of hate. To quote Yahtzee, "They're just idiots!". I love them, but damn it, they can be really fucking stupid sometimes. Recently my library just got Street Fighter 4, so I played it with my little sister, this is my first Street Fighter experience, AND I have never heard of any other characters besides Ryu. So I pick the black guy in every fighter I get to and I get to Dhalsim. And he looks fucking crazy... I eventually figured out he was Indian not black, but he still looks like a huge stereotype.

Then we get to Cammy...

And fucking hell, right then and there I just figured out my sister is going to be a feminist...
Cammy's main attribute (besides me kicking ass with her character every time) is her as-athletic abilities. And also that booty don't lie!

But seriously, I Cammy also looks crazy as shit too. I have no problem with women being sexy in games as long as they can also be fleshed out, fully realized, 3 dimensional characters, but this is FUCKING Capcom. I didn't play the story, and maybe she's the best female character since Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, but something makes me doubt that.

Don't get me wrong here, with the hour I spent playing Street Fighter, I had a fucking blast. It was badass. I loved playing it. But I also felt dirty for enjoying it. I don't know guys, What is your opinion? I'd love to hear it.

Sounds more like you are super sensitive about your race and looking for a problem. I'm white, I don't complain about how the white guy's guile or ken are portrayed. Or the fact that the main villain is white. If he was black would you have a problem with that too? Would it be vilifying a black people? And the characters are fairly stereotypical that doesn't make them racist, dhalsim is fine he is meant to be hindi. The characters were made years ago, they are dated if anything. Lots of crappy awful characters are white but I don't scream racism because I don't feel some kind of brotherhood with every white person on the planet nor is my colour the only thing that defines me. It's pretty insignificant all things considered.

YEAH, YOU ONLY MAKE UP 85% OF VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS. EVER.

 

[Requia]

YEAH, YOU ONLY MAKE UP 85% OF VIDEO GAME CHARACTERS. EVER.

I think you hit and 8 instead of a 9. And a 5 instead of a 9. Gotta watch that angry typing.

(which is actually kinda weird given all the Japanese games, why don't they have more Japanese characters?)

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I have tried for a very long time to figure out the mentality behind the -ism obsessed. I finally have a theory. Its professional victimhood. These people look for racism or sexism in everything because they need that racism/sexism to exist everywhere for their views and feelings to be validated. If racism or sexism ceases to be a part of every day life and starts to just become a fringe thing (which it is for the most part) social justice groups become irrelevant. You have to stir the pot and make controversy where there is none or people will stop caring about your cause.

Before you accuse me of "victim blaming" when I say professional victim let me explain what it means. A professional victim is someone who either constantly puts themselves in positions where they know they will be victimized so they can gain sympathy, or someone who has their entire world built up around them being a victim of society, not individuals. The professional victim of society will constantly try to draw up reasons as to why something is some sort of -ism. They will use their victim mentality to never be responsible for the things that happen to them or people in their demographic (some feminists are pros at this as seen with the theory that women who are supposed to be equal lose all accountability for their actions when drinking or that they should have the ability to withdraw consent after the fact) while at the same time using it as a weapon to try and shut anybody up that wants a piece of their victim pie or disputes the discrimination they say exists.

These people need to keep doing things like calling street fighter racist or sexist, when its really just a game that uses every campy stereotype it can find, because extreme amounts of sexism/racism is the only thing that excuses extreme views or tactics on those subjects. The whole point of a revolution is resolution but when you have so much money being poured into groups that depend on discrimination to exist to continue getting money and on the other hand people who depend on that discrimination existing so they can continue to express and hold onto a professional victim mentality you can bet the REAL problems we have will never get solved. Its the same reason they say we get medicine not cures. Cures put people out of jobs and make companies lose money.

I didn't ask for sympathy. I'm not angry in my post or have anything to gain from it, AND I'm not saying Capcom is evil or anything like that. I was just asking a simple question to ponder the representation of minorities in games. I don't think they're being very well represented in SF. I spend the entire post making jokes, I don't need a shoulder to cry on.

 

[Robert Marrs]

I didn't ask for sympathy. I'm not angry in my post or have anything to gain from it, AND I'm not saying Capcom is evil or anything like that. I was just asking a simple question to ponder the representation of minorities in games. I don't think they're being very well represented in SF. I spend the entire post making jokes, I don't need a shoulder to cry on.

My post was not directed at you personally I was just using your post as an example because it is touching on the same absurdity that the people I was describing use often. But just a thought if you are not taking this seriously and you just want to ask question to ponder the representation of minorities in video games maybe don't use the words sexist and racist. Those are serious words that should be saved for serious accusations not a flippant discussion about representation. Not to mention saying you found RE5 racist considering most of the gaming community found that claim to be completely ridiculous when it first surfaced is going to give people the SJW impression right away. You are well within your right to think that but people will make assumptions on your character and intentions based on what you say/type and how you say/type it.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I didn't ask for sympathy. I'm not angry in my post or have anything to gain from it, AND I'm not saying Capcom is evil or anything like that. I was just asking a simple question to ponder the representation of minorities in games. I don't think they're being very well represented in SF. I spend the entire post making jokes, I don't need a shoulder to cry on.

My post was not directed at you personally I was just using your post as an example because it is touching on the same absurdity that the people I was describing use often. But just a thought if you are not taking this seriously and you just want to ask question to ponder the representation of minorities in video games maybe don't use the words sexist and racist. Those are serious words that should be saved for serious accusations not a flippant discussion about representation. Not to mention saying you found RE5 racist considering most of the gaming community found that claim to be completely ridiculous when it first surfaced is going to give people the SJW impression right away. You are well within your right to think that but people will make assumptions on your character and intentions based on what you say/type and how you say/type it.

Fair enough, this is one of those times where my limited vocabulary can fuck me right in the ass...

 

[Lightknight]

Depicting attractive women is not sexist. Are unattractive women more worthy of depiction than attractive women are?

Failing to depict a race in the way you want it depicted isn't racist. Depicting stereotypes of a race is also not necessarily racist depending on how far they take it.

Making a value judgement about individuals based on a stereotype or on the race or culture expressed is where racism comes into play. Also, depicting people in a derrogatory stereotypical manner would also be racist.

To boil it down to basics, is depicted a black man in baggy pants somehow racist? It shouldn't be. It is a stereotype but many stereotypes are grown out of cultural norms rather than something actually bad or derrogatory.

 

[Adanos]

In Soviet Russia is illegal for women to be weak. All women in Glorious Soviet Union need to be able to defend the Motherland and to look good doing it. You capitalist pigs don't understand. In Glorious Soviet Russia it does not matter if you man or woman. You are all children of Motherland.

 

[Requia]

In Soviet Russia is illegal for women to be weak. All women in Glorious Soviet Union need to be able to defend the Motherland and to look good doing it. You capitalist pigs don't understand. In Glorious Soviet Russia it does not matter if you man or woman. You are all children of Motherland.

Khazakstan and China still walked all over you at London in women's weightlifting

Yes I'm reduced to hiding behind Kahzakstan, here's to Kutin switching to Olympic style in time for 2016.

 

[jklinders]

In terms of sexism, is it even worth it to mention Dead or Alive's boob jiggle mode?

Bah! Anyway, even in story mode you are not gonna get Shakespeare. These types of games tend to have characters that are drawn from archetypes. The side stories are going to be pretty meh. And there will be a bit of fanservice. It's not bad or good. It's just the way it is.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that if you are truly looking for well rounded characters that are not stereotypes maybe, just maybe one on one fighting games are not for you.

One question, What do you think about Persona 4 Arena and Blazblue's stories? While Blazblue's characters are archtypes like you said, its story is something other than a tournament story (though there is a large amount of side material needed to get context for the dark war). Persona's seems to get how its characters are like and does make an interesting story with a new addition

No opinion at all. I never played either and have no interest in either.

Hell, i have not played a one on one vs fighter since the late 90s. They are console or arcade type games, I don't have a console and arcades around here are long dead.

Interesting is in the eye of the beholder. Most these games have cardboard for stories and expecting to get more than that from them is asking an awful lot.

 

[glider4]

I may be a bit ignorant but I thought most street fighter characters were based on stereotypes and even if not were not particularly deep characters. I mean it was made by Japanese people and there is a Sumo and a school girl. Stereotypes does not equal Racism guys.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

A) Big muscles are a secondary sexual characteristic

No they are not.

We are done.

 

[Requia]

A) Big muscles are a secondary sexual characteristic

No they are not.

We are done.

And here I thought biology denial was limited to creationists.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Real world issues with dehydration doesn't change that.

Your exact words, real world performance issues on the men do not matter, yet somehow real world performance issues for the women do, that's called sexism.

Could you please stop lying. And yes, taking quotes out of context is lying.

Big muscle help fighting. So having exaggerated muscles is part of a power fantasy.

Breasts of any size don't help you do physical activity. So having exaggerated boobs is NOT part of a power fantasy. It is a sexual fantasy.

In both cases I'm looking at performance issues.

Now, before you respond, if all you are going to do is call me sexist, again, I am just going to flag you post and move on. I'm really trying to get this thread back on topic.