Is technology killing mods?

[Monsterfurby]

With Battlefield 3 apparently "too complex" for mods and Creative Assembly publicly doubting that the newest Total War engine could possibly be modded as well as the older ones, with games becoming more complex and graphics more elaborate, modding has become a rare thing with newer games. Even Civ 5, a game presented as greatly moddable, does not reach the manifold mods of its predecessor at the same time after release.

So technology marches on, no one will doubt that, and free-time modding teams lack the resources to keep pace. This, at least, is the impression one might get from slap after slap into the face of the modding communities in recent news. What do you think? Will the broader modding community collapse with the next (let's say, "Post-Source Engine") generation of games? Will it find new ways? What are your experiences?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I call bullshit on the idea of developers using an engine that's "too complex" to mod. If you've ever been around anyone from the mod community, or participated in the community yourself, you'll know how dedicated modders are, and just how phenomenally good many of them are at what they do, almost to the point of being as good or in some cases maybe even better than the professionals in some aspects of game design with the mods they create.

Personally I think that the developers don't want to put out mod tools because having those tools cuts into the profits that those developers get from DLC. Who is going to want to buy a $10 map pack from DICE for Battlefield 3 with just 3 maps in it when they can get hundreds of new maps, new gametypes, etc, from the mod community for free?

 

[allinwonder]

More complex than Dwarf Fortress? It has tons of mods.

 

[bob1052]

Bad developers won't have mods on their games.

Good developers will continue to have mods on their games.

 

[Pat728]

I completely disagree. If anything games are more cleanly made and organized, making them easier to mod in some ways. Mods are definately not going anywhere.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

No, I don't believe they're too complex. Instead, I just think that developers would like to have more control over their products, and they feel they lose some of it by letting modders tinker with their games. There's no market for DLC, for instance, if modders can just make everything they make for free.

 

[evilneko]

It's not really a question of how complex the engine is, how detailed the graphics are, or anything like that.

The question is, will it accept properly-formatted arbitrary input at any point? If yes, mods will happen.

 

[feather240]

I'll repeat what I said last time.

From what I've read about the Frostbite engine this isn't because they think it's too complex, but because they can't allow mods without releasing the same tools required to develop the game, and they aren't going to release those. I've read horror stories about maps taking a week and 80gb of memory space just to compile.

Here's the article if anyone's interested.
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-pc/1350772-so-how-about-modtools.html

(Yes, it refers to BF:BC2, but it talks about BF3 and I doubt they would remake the engine starting with BF2.)

 

[Nitrozzy7]

Nothing but crap. It's policy decisions that could "kill" mods and not technology. In fact technology should make mods easier.

 

[Stall]

It's BS. Just an excuse for developers to be lazy.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Dude, why is The Creative Assembly not designing their engine for moddability? Other devs would kill for their modding community.

 

[Akytalusia]

I call bullshit on the idea of developers using an engine that's "too complex" to mod. If you've ever been around anyone from the mod community, or participated in the community yourself, you'll know how dedicated modders are, and just how phenomenally good many of them are at what they do, almost to the point of being as good or in some cases maybe even better than the professionals in some aspects of game design with the mods they create.

Personally I think that the developers don't want to put out mod tools because having those tools cuts into the profits that those developers get from DLC. Who is going to want to buy a $10 map pack from DICE for Battlefield 3 with just 3 maps in it when they can get hundreds of new maps, new gametypes, etc, from the mod community for free?

well, that pretty much sums it up. ninja'd by the first post.

 

[MrMrAwesom]

I agree with Dirty, but they won't be new maps they'll be different parts of the same maps.

 

[Hiphophippo]

There's no market for DLC, for instance, if modders can just make everything they make for free.

Good point. This, gentlemen and gentlewomen is almost certainly the entire point behind them not releasing mod tools. Why pay 5 dollars for something when I can just download a fan mod with the exact stats and skin?

It's a dick move, is what it is and while I'm not opposed to paying a little extra in microtransactions and DLC I'll be paying it because I "want to" not because I have to.

 

[Ruiner87]

Personally I think that the developers don't want to put out mod tools because having those tools cuts into the profits that those developers get from DLC. Who is going to want to buy a $10 map pack from DICE for Battlefield 3 with just 3 maps in it when they can get hundreds of new maps, new gametypes, etc, from the mod community for free?

Bingo. Why would developers want the community to create new content, when the developers can make them pay for it? Keep in mind that developing video games is a business, and the primary goal of any business it to make money. This is especially true of developers that are involved with huge publishers (Infinity Ward/Treyarch and Activision, Dice and EA). Honestly, it just comes down to the greed of larger developers and their publishers. The complexity of the engine is a non-issue.

 

[Kaiser6012]

Why would developers want the community to create new content, when the developers can make them pay for it?

Good point, but I think this shows a lack of willingness to even try and make the sort of content that we would pay for. This kind of mindset says to me: "I believe that, with all of my tools and my years of industry expertise and knowledge, I can be bested by five people who will do it for free because they want to."

I personally put the onus on the developers to put their money where their mouth is with DLC and make stuff that we'd be willing to pay for and/or is near impossible to do by modders.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

I remember the days of the original Jedi Knight, it had a stupidly complex engine (more complex than it ever needed to be) due to it having a scripting language all of its own. That didn't stop fans from:
- making its own mapping tool
- making its own modding tools
- in the end became so proficient at modding that they managed to override limitations that were hard coded into the engine and made a humble 1997 FPS game look like one of the later generation N64 games.

Under no conditions should a developer ever underestimate their fanbase. They might just end up upstaging the developers.

 

[thatonedude11]

I think a lot of developers don't realize that if a game has a good enough modding community, people will buy the game just for the mods. Therefore, the company is getting money from other people's work.

Another thing, if a developer claims there game is too complex to mod, maybe they should invest some time into making better tools. Honestly, if your tools are that complicated, it must take forever to make any levels.

Maybe I'm full of crap, but this really seems like a no-brainier to me.

 

[MysticToast]

I personally believe this: if there are people clever enough to hack companies like Sony, Square Enix, Apple, and more, there are people who can mod any game.

 

[Akyho]

There is a thing about time. I have followed some mods that have just been released this last year or two for games that came out in 2003. And the mods starts in 2005. These are big TC mods. However the amount of time its taken? Half of these mods are killed due to the amount of effort and time for a group of people that said one day "hey lets made this mod for this game!"

Mods nowadays are more often tweeks or added content. Total Convertions are rare.
Such as Oblivion. Mostly its to add or take somthing away to change the game. Or add a new type of sword and armour. Which the one person will make a few sets and be done.

There is the High Def mod for GTA4 just coming out. Thats high detailed work and alot of effort.

Big mods are for smaller games like Minecraft.