Is the death penalty ever justified?

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A random person

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Yelchor said:
A random person said:
Yelchor said:
I have one question for you: are you a future or alternate universe version of me? That's pretty much my absurdly merciful attitude on crime right there.

If you can rehabilitate the criminal, you should. It's good for the criminal for obvious reasons and for society because the former criminal can work. The notion of making them suffer for their crimes (aka revenge) is stupid; punishment is a necessary evil, and if it's taken beyond what is necessary, it is merely an evil.
Oh? You assumed you were the only one with visible empathy in this entire universe? Absurdly merciful? No, I just find the killing of others sickening. Especially when it's only in order to satisfy urges for revenge. In my honest word I say the only ones who should have a say in the sentenced's fate are proffesional and legitimate authorities. Never the victim's family. Their personal satisfaction comes at the price of destroying a life. Never shall I accept such immature ways of solving things. A shame many parts of the world have yet to reach such levels of thinking.
I've been on this forum for a few months and have been lurking for over a year, believe me, you get used to everyone screaming for vengence. Sometimes that really does make you feel like you're the only one with empathy. Also, the absurdly merciful comment was making fun of how having basic empathy apparently means you're a wuss who's ignorant of reality.

But other than those words, I see you're one of the few enlightened ones who isn't fixated on vengeance or an absurd idea of justice that's basically "making them pay." I'll send down a retrieval pod and some of my troops so you can join me in my floating doom fortress (don't worry, it's just a name like the galaxy of terror).


Signum

Vita

And Yuki.
Believe me, it's quite an honor to be selected to board my floating doom fortress, even moreso with the troops I'm sending.
/randomness
 

annoyinglizardvoice

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Apr 29, 2009
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Amnestic said:
I dunno. I like the Penal Legion idea. Give them guns and send them on suicide missions. When they hit 21 successful missions without dying, they get to live out a life sentence in prison or choose a bullet to the brain.

Why 21? Because that's the number you need to hit in Blackjack. Blackjack would be the name of the program. Why call it Blackjack? Because that's the game you need to hit 21 in.

/circular logic
//I has it.
Interesting idea.

Personally, I don't think that there is a legal system in existance that is reliable, fair and accurate enough to hand out death penalties for any but the most extreem of cases (Hilter etc). If the system were perfect, I'd be in favour of the death penalty for all major crimes.
 

DoomyMcDoom

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Antlers said:
DoomyMcDoom said:
I will say I find you to be a most fascinating conversationalist as you hold your end up without resulting to unneeded inflamation as a result of a lack of communication skill.
on this, I commend you. however, i must sleep. feel free to respond, but know my response may be a few hours in coming.
Um... I can't work out if that's a compliment or insult. Mainly due to the 'lack of communication skill' part.
it was a compliment, as i stated you haven't insulted me in this convo trying to sound tough... y'know and lacking in communications skills... I don't talk to people who badly lack in such...
and I do not believe in veiled insults... I believe in outright stating one's opinion, or ignoring an individual.

:D
 

Ace of Spades

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The reason I am for the death penalty is because we take a dangerous criminal off of the streets, and we don't have to feed them.
 

Multikott

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Apr 16, 2009
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I am wholly against the death penalty. In my opinion, the taking of a murderer's (or rapist's/whatever's) life is impossible to justify. Vengeance has no reason.

Aside from opinions, one misconception people seem to bring up all the time is that imprisonment for life is "wasting the tax-payer's dollars". This is untrue. Have a link:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/page.do?id=1101084

As you can see, in most states death penalty cases cost (on avarage) at least 50% more than non-death penalty cases. California is an extreme case, where removing the death penalty would cut the costs to a tenth.

Also, hi. I'm new.
 

martin's a madman

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I think the death penalty can be justified. If a person is a blight on society his or here existence deserves to be terminated.
 

Yelchor

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...Why thank you, A random person. This was my first day in this community, and I've already made myself an intellectual friend!

oppp7 said:
Ok, several questions for anyone against the death penalty.
1. What would you do if you had a famous criminal, such as Idi Amin or Osama Bin Laden? (I'm wary of Godwin's Law)
2. What do you think we should have done during the Civil war or World War 2 to solve the problems these wars solved?
3. What is your stance on abortion? (I'm pro-choice)
4. Do you really see no difference in killing an innocent person and a murderer?
1. What do you mean by "having"? Having them in jail in your country? In your home? Well... If I saw an individual who I am aware of as being a dangerous criminal, I'd try to contact the local authorities. I would not try to catch him/her myself though unless the situation called for such actions.

2. Gradual reforms by democratic elections. And I can only assume you mean the abolishion of slavery, liberation from dictatorship and foundation of the UN? War is nothing but stupidity. For millenias have leaderships declared war upon each other and sent out the common man to suffer and die for their interests. Either by literally forcing the people to join the ranks of the army or by claiming how the war is justifyable. And all the while innocent civilians are killed in the onslaught simply for standing in the way. That various nations finds it acceptable to let people die over their own greed makes me rather angered. But ofcourse I would be quite ignorant if I looked upon greed as the main reason for all of this. I can understand paranoia gets the better of you when you have neighbours with armed forces that can go on to an offensive within short notice. This leads to arms races globally, and continues to cause tension and conflict rising. Back on the topic. I'd say these things could've been solved with new law and general society reformation. However it's up to the people in the long end if progress can be made in a stable manner. War and revolution contributes nothing to this.

3. It is up to the pregnant woman if she wishes to have an abortion or not. I personally say that abortion is a necessary service which gives pregnant individuals a second chance in life. Taking care of a child is arguably the most hard task to do which requires a lifetime of devotion. Should a teenager become pregnant she will most likely have no opportunity to properly develop socially. She would be extremely restrained from being able to travel freely. Which strips away the chances of enjoying life before taking on proper responsibility in older days. Also the individual might not be fully prepared to take on such a thing at an young age. Abortion gives the one who is pregnant a chance to correct the error and have a child at an older age when she is mentally ready. Then there's ofcourse if someone became pregnant by a close family member or with a deformed fetus which could lead to the mother's death upon giving birth. And there is ofcourse moral restrictions to the useage of the service. It is considered illegal to make an abortion on a fetus which has developed a brain large enough to be able to think - which is in about... The fourth month? Not certain,but anyway, it is at this stage when the fetus has become a sentinent being. If the one being pregnant does not wish the child, she can still have it taken by a foster family.

4. I would never judge an individual unless I knew who he/she is and what his/her life has been like. Technically I suppose you could say that there's a difference since one has killed while the other has not. However I would seek to help, and only kill if I am forced to kill. This might be easier said then done, but I am striving for such nonetheless.
 

Yelchor

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I might be mistaken, but wasn't the reason for the removal of death penalty in several states of the U.S that it was too expensive?
 

MelziGurl

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Antlers said:
MelziGurl said:
I have nothing against the death penalty, so long as the person accused is proven 100% guilty of whichever crime he/she is accused of. I'd rather not see people innocent of said crime having their lives ended for absolutely no justifiable reason.
Well that makes you anti-death penalty. Because you can never be 100% sure.
I'd say there are cases where the authorities are 100% correct in their proof. There may not be very many, but there would be cases that are 100% proven, but that also doesn't make me anti-death penalty. If I was anti I would have just said so.
 

oppp7

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Aug 29, 2009
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Yelchor said:
...Why thank you, A random person. This was my first day in this community, and I've already made myself an intellectual friend!

oppp7 said:
Ok, several questions for anyone against the death penalty.
1. What would you do if you had a famous criminal, such as Idi Amin or Osama Bin Laden? (I'm wary of Godwin's Law)
2. What do you think we should have done during the Civil war or World War 2 to solve the problems these wars solved?
3. What is your stance on abortion? (I'm pro-choice)
4. Do you really see no difference in killing an innocent person and a murderer?
1. What do you mean by "having"? Having them in jail in your country? In your home? Well... If I saw an individual who I am aware of as being a dangerous criminal, I'd try to contact the local authorities. I would not try to catch him/her myself though unless the situation called for such actions.

2. Gradual reforms by democratic elections. And I can only assume you mean the abolishion of slavery, liberation from dictatorship and foundation of the UN? War is nothing but stupidity. For millenias have leaderships declared war upon each other and sent out the common man to suffer and die for their interests. Either by literally forcing the people to join the ranks of the army or by claiming how the war is justifyable. And all the while innocent civilians are killed in the onslaught simply for standing in the way. That various nations finds it acceptable to let people die over their own greed makes me rather angered. But ofcourse I would be quite ignorant if I looked upon greed as the main reason for all of this. I can understand paranoia gets the better of you when you have neighbours with armed forces that can go on to an offensive within short notice. This leads to arms races globally, and continues to cause tension and conflict rising. Back on the topic. I'd say these things could've been solved with new law and general society reformation. However it's up to the people in the long end if progress can be made in a stable manner. War and revolution contributes nothing to this.

3. It is up to the pregnant woman if she wishes to have an abortion or not. I personally say that abortion is a necessary service which gives pregnant individuals a second chance in life. Taking care of a child is arguably the most hard task to do which requires a lifetime of devotion. Should a teenager become pregnant she will most likely have no opportunity to properly develop socially. She would be extremely restrained from being able to travel freely. Which strips away the chances of enjoying life before taking on proper responsibility in older days. Also the individual might not be fully prepared to take on such a thing at an young age. Abortion gives the one who is pregnant a chance to correct the error and have a child at an older age when she is mentally ready. Then there's ofcourse if someone became pregnant by a close family member or with a deformed fetus which could lead to the mother's death upon giving birth. And there is ofcourse moral restrictions to the useage of the service. It is considered illegal to make an abortion on a fetus which has developed a brain large enough to be able to think - which is in about... The fourth month? Not certain,but anyway, it is at this stage when the fetus has become a sentinent being. If the one being pregnant does not wish the child, she can still have it taken by a foster family.

4. I would never judge an individual unless I knew who he/she is and what his/her life has been like. Technically I suppose you could say that there's a difference since one has killed while the other has not. However I would seek to help, and only kill if I am forced to kill. This might be easier said then done, but I am striving for such nonetheless.
First, thank you for answering. Earlier, some people were just insulting the fact that I was talking like most people do on the internet rather than counter my arguments (namely the starter of this forum).
1. I should have been more clear. If you have someone in your custody that is guilty of serious crimes and would never be able to conform to society.
2. Some problems, namely genocides, don't go away if ignored. Yes, pressuring countries can stop them, but with lives on the line brute force may be an acceptable (I am aware that the war will probably cost more lives than if we just let the dictators have their way, but if it keeps the people from living in squalor for years...).
3. I agree.
4. I'm not sure what o think of this kind of thing. On the one hand, people who had horrible lives growing up will probably have mental issues that they couldn't help. On the other hand, some are not able to be rehabilitated. There are some who have no excuse for the things they have done except that they were too lazy to control their actions and learn discipline (intoxication does not excuse you). But for the incurably insane that murder, do you house them for life, or do you execute them?
 

Yelchor

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Aug 30, 2009
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Thank you for informing further. Once more I would turn to mental and phsycological treatment to the individual in question. Never should we kill some one just beacuse we find him or her "useless".

And yes... Sadly there can be times where war is inevitable in order for things to develop into the better. However it wouldn't be needed in the first place if everyone were able to accept Human rights aswell as relying on a democratic-chosen goverment.

Execution should never be an option. Threat of death only causes fear within others, which creates unecessary tension and unrest. Why should the individual's friends and family be denied ever seeing him/her ever again? Also "hopeless" cases are a "what if" scenario. It is hardly the majority of criminals, and even if it was, legal execution would do little to solve it.
 

Warwolt

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May 23, 2009
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You can't ever know to a 100% that you're killing the right guy.

That should ALWAYS be reason alone not to ever consider death penalty.
 

Jurassic Rob

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Mar 27, 2009
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No, the state has no right to kill anyone! I can understand that friends and family of the victims would want revenge, but not the state!
 

Dusty Donuts

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It's simple, according to me at least. You steal, you get stolen from (in this case, years of your life). So why not if you kill, you get killed. One has no right to go around murdering innocent people and then still have a chance to get out and do something again.
So, if A equals stealing and B equals killing. A = A, B = B. B does not equal A
 

Babypummeler

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I believe the death penalty is definitely a deterrent to violent crime.
A majority (At least 50.1% of violent crime offenders will repeat their crime.
I do not believe death should be a punishment, but a deterrent, and dying generally stops a terrible person from re-offending.
 

Jark212

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Jul 17, 2008
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What ticks me off is guys on Death Row for 30 years, I'd say after a very through appeal (I really don't want to see innocents being executed), Firing Squad!!! Then harvest there healthy organs to be used for life-saving operations, then there bodies mulched for fertilizer.
Now that's a plan!!!
 

Axeli

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Penalty? It's not a penalty, it's disposing of a person who is too fucked up to ever become even half-way fit to work in any society, making it pointless to even punish him/her.

Justice is a nice word, but it's just short for revenge, rehabiliation, keeping people in line with fear and putting dangerious people away.

Death is completely misplaced as revenge, it obviously isn't rehabiliation and it's not any better scare tactic than regular prison sentence. Getting rid of an unwanted person is all you should see it as. Death is just death, they won't suffer from it.
The only thing that is punishment about is being locked up in death row for years before they finally put you down.

Still, if you want actual revenge, locking a person up for life is the way... I do find clean shot in the brain and calling it a day more efficient and in a way more elegant solution, but frankly there are two major problems with it that make it unusable.

First one is good old "Whoops, he was actually innocent", the second is that you never ever want to authorize a country to kill its own citizens.