Is the debate between Creationism and Evolution serious in America?
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I don't like debating over the subject. And even though I believe in evolution and not in a god/ gods (but I don't deny anything) I dislike extremist christians and evolutionists alike. Plus the debate isn't going to change almost anybody's view, so it's just pointless (and very frustrating).
We don't, or at least most of us don't. I was taught the theory of evolution in a Catholic high school, for instance.NeutralDrow said:
There are all sorts of groups within the Church though that have various ideas as to how the faith should work: just like political parties. Some, like myself, believe in enhancing the roles of women in the Church by letting them become priests: others don't. Some believe that evolution is the right idea: others don't, and some think that God directed it. There's all sorts of opinions floating around on everything.
And yes, some of the Fundies don't consider us Catholics to be hard-core enough.
I believe everyone here would benifit from a book by Richard Dawkins called The God Delusion. It might as well be the atheist/evolutionists answer to the bible.
A good point, however, the entire "evolution disproving God" thing hinges on one point: that we know what God's design was. For all we know, evolution could be God's design, or it might not be, there's no way to know. The Bible says God created everything but it doesn't really say how, or what his plan was after.Monshroud said:
Silly people, believing in concepts that others tell them are true.
Believing the words of the minority who claim to hold power is so stupid.
Why can't people just look at the world around them and decide for themselves.
Oh, right, they DO do that. They do make choices, and then fight people who make the same choice but for a different unseen master.
So I guess I'm the silly one, for admitting that my life is ruled by invisible forces beyond any sentient control, and that my species and I can only hold back said forces rather than command them without reproach.
But, since I take neither side, my opinion doesn't matter here, so I've only wasted space.
At the bidding of my invisible masters, of course.
Believing the words of the minority who claim to hold power is so stupid.
Why can't people just look at the world around them and decide for themselves.
Oh, right, they DO do that. They do make choices, and then fight people who make the same choice but for a different unseen master.
So I guess I'm the silly one, for admitting that my life is ruled by invisible forces beyond any sentient control, and that my species and I can only hold back said forces rather than command them without reproach.
But, since I take neither side, my opinion doesn't matter here, so I've only wasted space.
At the bidding of my invisible masters, of course.
Great! Except... that doesn't work. It -completely- fails for organisms that do not reproduce sexually. Furthermore, there are documented cases wherein organism A can interbreed with organism B, organism B can interbreed with organism C, C can interbreed with D, but A and D cannot interbreed. Finally some organisms cannot interbreed for purely physiological reasons, even though their genetics are compatible. Imagine, say, a Pomeranian female impregnated with sperm of a Newfoundland and you'll get the idea.Starnerf said:
I agree, All Scientists will gladly say "I Don't Know" which religious people won't do.s69-5 said:
"I Don't Know" is probably the one of the 3 greatest words in mankind. Because you don't have the answers, you seek them.
No scientist will claim to know what lies beyond the big bang or what caused life to begin in the first place, they can guess, prove their theories, disprove their theories etc. And there's a near infinite regression as we far as we know.
Science IS ALWAYS WRONG, we only get less wrong as we move along and it's not bad.
What created the Big Bang? What created the Big Bounce? Are Strings the fundamental unit of the universe? Who created them? Who created the creator then?
No one can answer these questions, the difference between science and religion is that science tries within a rational framework.
Let science answer the science questions and religion answer the spiritual questions.
No real scientific person takes creationism seriously. Creationists prop up other creationists who happen to have a "degree" in some science or are a "doctor" of something that happen to support their bullshit claims.heyheysg said:
Occasionally creationists will "debate" scientists in front of an actual crowd but 1. they always lose because they can't prove any of their bullshit claims, and 2. they always turn it into a chance to "spread the word" of how "amazing" their god is.
Creationism can not, by definition, be proven because it requires faith. If they have to prove or disprove faith then it is no longer a faith/religion, it is science. By proving that their god exists negates the whole faith thing and their god would suddenly disappear in a puff cloud of quantum logic.
Really there is no point in even arguing with a creationist. The creationists answer/argument will always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS come down to "... well that just what I believe."
The rest is just a bunch of bullshit they try to shoehorn into our publicly funded schools so that they convince more stupid people give them all their money and get them to join their ridiculous cult.
As far as proving evolution wrong. Scientists would gladly welcome it. Thats the great thing about science. We learn new things all the time and reevaluate our standings and understanding of the universe. So really its not a problem for scientists. They love to prove and disprove things. Their thinking, get this, evolves!
I haven't read all the posts; sorry if I repeat anything here:
Watch "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" by Ben Stein. Not pro-creationism, but definitely gives some perspective on things.
Summary
1 - Scientists do debate the theory of design versus chance.
2 - Teaching evolution only can be bad for at least two reasons: ethics and bioengineering.
Ethics - we have to be careful that we don't go down the path that Hitler and others have tried. Evolution is a great thing and we need to keep the human race evolving by preventing some from breeding. Getting a pure race, eugenics, etc.
Bioengineering - Understanding how or why things work in a cell, in our body, etc. is important. Sometimes more can be learned by taking a "how would I design a x" approach to understanding x versus, a "x just randomly occurred and was beneficial to the organism and therefore stayed" approach.
Watch "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" by Ben Stein. Not pro-creationism, but definitely gives some perspective on things.
Summary
1 - Scientists do debate the theory of design versus chance.
2 - Teaching evolution only can be bad for at least two reasons: ethics and bioengineering.
Ethics - we have to be careful that we don't go down the path that Hitler and others have tried. Evolution is a great thing and we need to keep the human race evolving by preventing some from breeding. Getting a pure race, eugenics, etc.
Bioengineering - Understanding how or why things work in a cell, in our body, etc. is important. Sometimes more can be learned by taking a "how would I design a x" approach to understanding x versus, a "x just randomly occurred and was beneficial to the organism and therefore stayed" approach.
