Is the home console business viable for Nintendo?

[VG_Addict]

But is a console sustainable for Nintendo? They've sold less every generation.

 

[Lightknight]

But is a console sustainable for Nintendo? They've sold less every generation.

That's not strictly true. They began to sell less once Sony entered the market but the Wii was a huge game changer for Nintendo financially. They should still have enough cash to operate at a loss for a couple decades so I'd say finding a sweet spot could be very possible for them. They just made a significant number of missteps this time. To be honest, all Nintendo really needs is to hit another Wii every couple of decades.

I just bought a Wii U yesterday with Smash Bros and Bayonetta 2 and my brother is planning on buying one himself by the end of the month. So far I'm really enjoying it. I know nowadays there's a lot of people (especially the writers on many gaming sites where the cool thing to do now is hate on Nintendo) who are quick to say Nintendo is flopping etc etc, but I thinks it's all B.S. and that they are doing just fine.

If anything the gaming industry's behavior and business practices over the past few years has made me appreciate Nintendo even more.

Nintendo is not flopper per se. But the WiiU is. Nintendo recognizes this and are already set to announce a replacement this year.

If even Nintendo acknowledges the dismal performance of the WiiU then you should be willing to accept that it isn't Nintendo hate of some kind or some such conspiracy. I'd say most people want Nintendo to succeed.

But please understand, the WiiU is the slowest selling console Nintendo has put out. Even the gamecube sold faster and that was absolutely deemed a flop.

 

[babinro]

As someone who gets most of his gaming news from this website, I view the current console generation like this...

Wii U >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS4 >> Xbox One

Yahtzee has yet to confirm that Xbox One or PS4 are worth even considering. Jim Sterling frequently reinforced that the Wii U is the only system that's doing things right (at least partially). So far as I know the podcast gaming crew has yet to support Xbox or PS4 as consoles worthy of a purchase either. At the very least they are completely against owning an Xbox one still. PS4 is a bit more unclear...maybe it's worth it?

Note: I don't own any current gen consoles due to costs vs simply buying PC games on massive discount/bundles.

Is it sustainable? I'd say so given the positive word of mouth.
Nintendo's biggest enemy seems to be itself. They refuse to let gamers market and promote their games online for exposure. They also refuse to release consoles with the hardware capabilities of Xbox/PS which naturally places a barrier on 3rd party support. Fix these two issues for the next generation and I think you'll have a clear champion in hardcore and casual console markets.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

If I were Nintendo, I'd make the hybrid form of a handheld, a cell phone, and a console.

I'm picturing a handheld like the Vita, with dual-analog sticks and all the buttons of a full game pad. It would also be cell phone, with all the advantages of such. It would also have a docking station that would charge the device, stream video to a TV, and have support for a wireless game pad so that you can play from the couch.

It would be able to have all the mobile stuff that works on Android/iOS, plus Nintendo exclusives, and it would suit the tastes of all their kinds of gamers.

Granted, this is just a pipe-dream. I have no idea how much something like this would cost to make. But faced with being left behind by SONY/MS trying to make specialized gaming PCs on one side, and mobile creeping into Nintendo's handheld space on the other side, this seems like a viable future option.

 

[144_v1legacy]

At this point in the PS3's life, I remember people calling it a massive flop. I remember that well. But it picked up. Why?

 

[Supernova1138]

At this point in the PS3's life, I remember people calling it a massive flop. I remember that well. But it picked up. Why?

Because the Xbox 360 started developing Red Ring of Death issues and Microsoft pretty much gave up on getting any exclusives outside the Halo and Gears of War franchises. The 360 also did poorly in Japan, so if you were into Japanese games, you pretty much had to get a PS3 in order to play them.

The difference between the Wii U and PS3 is the PS3 actually had third party support. Sony also won the format war against HD-DVD in 2008, and thus the new standard became BluRay, so during the period between 2008 and when Netflix got big, having BluRay was an added advantage for the PS3.

 

[Lightspeaker]

As someone who gets most of his gaming news from this website, I view the current console generation like this...

Wii U >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS4 >> Xbox One

Yahtzee has yet to confirm that Xbox One or PS4 are worth even considering. Jim Sterling frequently reinforced that the Wii U is the only system that's doing things right (at least partially). So far as I know the podcast gaming crew has yet to support Xbox or PS4 as consoles worthy of a purchase either. At the very least they are completely against owning an Xbox one still. PS4 is a bit more unclear...maybe it's worth it?

Except that has absolutely nothing to do with the viability of the console as a product. People seriously need to get it into their head that there's a difference between "this is a bad console" and "this console is a flop". Something being a good console with people liking it does not make it a commercial success. You can love the Wii U all you want and I'm sure its a great piece of kit...but its still a commercial flop. And calling it a flop is not a criticism of the equipment itself or its game library.

The Dreamcast was a good console. It was also the final nail in the coffin of Sega's hardware division. I'm not saying the Wii U can do that to Nintendo (given they've probably still got several swimming pools full of cash from the success of the Wii I imagine they're weathering the downturn in fortunes quite well), but it illustrates that "good" does not mean "commercially viable".

 

[Ravenbom]

Nintendo had the best line-up of last year.

I think the biggest miss of the WiiU so far is that no RPGs have really tried to use the WiiU which would be so great with maps and inventory management in RPGs. Even a few re-releases of older RPGs would be great on the WiiU.
Disgaea and the Tales games would be great to re-release on WiiU.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Unless one has no interest in Nintendo IPs, the Wii U should be the console to get right now.

That's the point, for a lot of us it's hard to get excited about a new Mario game anymore...Nintendo's first party games have a strong fanbase that, let's face it, will buy anything they spew out. I've never seen a Nintendo fan be critical of anything they put out. So they're good on that count.

That was the whole purpose of that paragraph I wrote. If the Wii U's library is is not to your liking, that's why PC, PS4 and xbone exists. I still recommend waiting for the prices on those last two to drop, but some people might be willing and able to shell out the cash right now for the new stuff and they know their local market fluctuations better than me or another internet voice thousands of miles away.

I don't like (and really have never liked, Genesis/Mega Drive kid here) Mario. That is the one franchise Nintendo has milked to death and the titles have become stale and confusing. Even games from the SNES days just don't sit well with me. Pokemon isn't a main draw for the Wii U but is for handhelds, and I gave up on Pocket Monsters before the GBA was out, as the amount of Pokemons was getting ridiculous. Kirby and Mario Kart doesn't really interest me, and both Kart and SSB are really for get togethers with friends. Maybe some of the weirder games, like Captain Toad's Treasure Tracker

It's the Zelda franchise that Nintendo also gets accused of milking, when it really only had 8 original console titles in 25 years and has tried at least some game changing tricks, with varying success, with each one. Though, the die hard fans must admit it isn't the bastion of originality that some still claim it to be. Zelda is the main reason I got a Wii U a couple months ago, with some titles already out convincing me to play. While I wait I have Bayonetta 2, Lego City Undercover, Wonderful 101, Hyrule Warriors, Splatoon, and SSB to hold me over until Zelda,Star Fox and Metroid (hopefully) comes out. And by the time my PC and Wii U seem to have nothing new to play, I'll get a PS4/Xbox at 75% or less of what it is listed now, when they have something that does appeal to me already out. (And honestly, looking back on a few generations, I really only was interested in a handful games from each system. Exclusives were always spread out more than they are with the last gen and especially this gen.)

Every game system has its fanboys who will irrationally defend it. The time and money put into it makes them feel that way, and the brand loyalty goes back for decades (and not counting video games, centuries or millennia). Really this thread got sort of ridiculous fast and I agree with Lightkight in that we should all be enjoying what we got. Otherwise, the only real winners are the fat cats that got our money, and I'm worried all three consoles will just be used as stop gaps until the market recovers from the overly long 7th gen.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yahtzee has yet to confirm that Xbox One or PS4 are worth even considering.

Yes, because Yahtzee is ofcourse the main authority on what is worth considering in the world of gaming. His disregard for the Xbone and PS4 prove they aren't worth anybody's time.

 

[Verlander]

You may not have liked it, but to paint the Wii as anything other than a success would be foolish. Given the calibre of games recently released (or due to be released), I can see the WiiU doing well

 

[Ishal]

In the grand scheme of things? Sure.

However, in Japan I don't know. Consoles there seem to be on the downswing from what I've seen. Mobile gaming seems to be the way things are going. That said, the Wii U has some things I would be interested in getting.

Shantae and the Pirate's Curse
Mario games
Metroid Prime Trilogy

Couple other things I'm forgetting. If I didn't just build a Gaming PC and... Bloodborne wasn't a PS4 exclusive, then the next console I buy (whenever that turns out to be) would be a Wii U.

Right now the best experience for gaming seems to be PC and Wii U. Though Nintendo has flaws, you're unlikely to hear them from the diehard fans. I myself get lots of my entertainment from youtube LP'ers and Twitch streams. I don't appreciate the the way they are viewed/treated by Nintendo. It's draconian and, to be honest, embarrassing in 2015.

 

[Dragonbums]

We can also ask if the console business is viable for Microsoft since so far they have been in the black profit wise in regards to the Xbox division since never.

Personally I see no point getting a PS4 and Xbox. Mainly because the games on it just aren't my thing. And the few games exclusive to those consoles ARE my things I can easily get it on my computer.

Either way in the months since I acquired my Wii u I've gotten a butt fucking ton of games for it and at this point my purchase has been more than justified. I'm pretty damn happy with it.

 

[144_v1legacy]

At this point in the PS3's life, I remember people calling it a massive flop. I remember that well. But it picked up. Why?

Because the Xbox 360 started developing Red Ring of Death issues and Microsoft pretty much gave up on getting any exclusives outside the Halo and Gears of War franchises. The 360 also did poorly in Japan, so if you were into Japanese games, you pretty much had to get a PS3 in order to play them.

The difference between the Wii U and PS3 is the PS3 actually had third party support. Sony also won the format war against HD-DVD in 2008, and thus the new standard became BluRay, so during the period between 2008 and when Netflix got big, having BluRay was an added advantage for the PS3.

You seem to have read further into my post than you should have. I at no point said that the Wii U is following all the same patterns of the PS3, nor do I think the circumstances are the same, nor do I think that the audience is the same, nor do I think the Wii U is a replica of PS3-marketplace scenarios.

Here's what I think: it takes a bit of time before the success of a console can be decided. Sometimes, it can take years.

 

[babinro]

Yahtzee has yet to confirm that Xbox One or PS4 are worth even considering.

Yes, because Yahtzee is ofcourse the main authority on what is worth considering in the world of gaming. His disregard for the Xbone and PS4 prove they aren't worth anybody's time.

That was simply for illustration. The escapist is a significant gaming website whose staff has only ever said (to my knowledge) that these consoles are NOT worth spending your money on. That's kind of a big deal to me and worth mentioning when talking about the current generation of consoles. It's certainly helped inform my choice to not bother saving up for a current gen console.

As someone who gets most of his gaming news from this website, I view the current console generation like this...

Wii U >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS4 >> Xbox One

Yahtzee has yet to confirm that Xbox One or PS4 are worth even considering. Jim Sterling frequently reinforced that the Wii U is the only system that's doing things right (at least partially). So far as I know the podcast gaming crew has yet to support Xbox or PS4 as consoles worthy of a purchase either. At the very least they are completely against owning an Xbox one still. PS4 is a bit more unclear...maybe it's worth it?

Note: I don't own any current gen consoles due to costs vs simply buying PC games on massive discount/bundles.

Is it sustainable? I'd say so given the positive word of mouth.
Nintendo's biggest enemy seems to be itself. They refuse to let gamers market and promote their games online for exposure. They also refuse to release consoles with the hardware capabilities of Xbox/PS which naturally places a barrier on 3rd party support. Fix these two issues for the next generation and I think you'll have a clear champion in hardcore and casual console markets.

No one here can possibly answer with certainty if it's sustainable.

You are absolutely correct in pointing out that the Dreamcast was a critically successful failure. I suppose the Wii U could finally be the console that ends Nintendo's existence in the market but I really doubt that.

Nintendo came back from the Gamecube failure with an absolutely jaw dropping success via the Wii. They seem to have the financial stability to withstand the Wii U's lesser sales to take them to the next generation...if not next couple console generations.

If Nintendo DID give up on consoles I'd be interested to see if they'd even choose to become a 3rd party dev for Sony/Microsoft/PC platforms. Something tells me they'd become a handheld ONLY gaming company and continue to keep things exclusive to that.

 

[Bellvedere]

The WiiU has a lot going for it but third-part support seems to be their big problem or at least one of the things I've seen most frequently criticized (I guess linked with the fact that the WiiU is less powerful than the other current-gen consoles and the trepidation of getting an inferior version of the game if it does get a WiiU release). A console that could combine the level of first party support/classic Nintendo games, free online multiplayer, abundance of couch co-op and family friendly games that the WiiU has along with the same quality AAA multi-platform games of the competitors could be a damn sweet home console option. That being said, I'm one of those peeps living the sweet life of owning a WiiU and a PC, so I'm happy as long as they stick around at all.

Seeing as Nintendo is forecasting that they're back to profits, I don't think they'll be bowing out of the market anytime soon. At any rate the more competition within the home console market, the better it is for us as customers. If for no other reason, I think that makes it worth hoping that all three console manufacturers stick around and get a chance to fix up those things that may have disappointed us this time around.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

People talk about how the Wii U "Won 2014" and Nintendo is doing better than ever.

And yet the PS4 outsells the Wii U 2-to-1 (18.5 million sales vs. 9.20 million), despite the fact that Nintendo released its console a whole year before Sony.

In fact, with the exception of the previous generation - in which Nintendo outsold Sony (and Microsoft) by 25% - Sony has always beat Nintendo at sales. Three-to-one on the 5th generation (PS1 = 102.49 million, N64 = 32.93 million), and a whopping seven-to-one on the 6th generation (PS2 = 155.00 million, GameCube = 21.74 million).

1) Nintendo is awful at marketing itself. The Wii U went practically unnoticed for a full year, the general public wasn't given a clear idea of what the console looked like, people assumed it was a peripheral for the Wii, and while the company succeeds in keeping a stalwart fanbase it consistently fails to attract new customers or regenerate its image as anything other than a kiddy platform.

2) Nintendo doesn't have good third-party support. Everybody knows this. The argument is whether it needs it or not. Fans argue Nintendo's well off on first-party games. Console sales differ. The opportunity cost does not favor the Wii U, which cannot play most of the most-marketed, most-sought (third-party) videogames in the market.

3) Nintendo suffers the Osborne Effect. It has published 9 handheld devices in the past 10 years, out of which 5 models have already been discontinued and there're probably another 5 along the way already. People know Nintendo is quick to erase the short-term past and start anew the next year, so why commit to a product that is obsolete since the day it is released?

4) Nintendo can't live up to its own gimmickry. It creates demand for a product and then refuses to supply it. Peripheral exports are scarce, exclusive deals are struck with retailers, scalpers take the lion's share and customers are met only halfway. Ambiguous announcements and a general disregard for popular demand confuse the public further.

And before you quote me and start rationalizing every bit of what I just wrote, because you love Nintendo and oh my god how dare I, make a note of this: I didn't say it's the worst company in the world, I didn't say it's doooooooomed, I didn't say anybody or anything is inherently better or worse and I didn't say it absolutely cannot pick itself up in the nearby future. The answer to the title question is a resounding YES, of course YES, they have the gross domestic product of a small country. It's the Citizen Kane scenario of "I'm losing a million dollars this year, I expect to lose another million the next year... at this rate I'll go out of business in 60 years". In the grand pattern of this centennial company, tis but a small bump along the road. Let's just not deny the bump is there, 'mkay?

 

[CrystalShadow]

The Wii U is flopping. That's just a fact. But I don't see the next console faring any better for Nintendo. Third parties aren't coming back, and people won't buy their console just for first party games. They're also behind on online and infrastructure.

Can they even make a successful home console?

You're making the same basic mistake everyone makes about Nintendo.

Confusing success in the arbitrary 'rankings' of consoles with success in business.


The Wii isn't a flop in the sense you think it is, because it doesn't need to be a massive success, it just needs to make a profit. Which it may not have done, given the losses nintendo had recently, but those losses didn't last long so...


The point is, Nintendo consoles have always been profitable. The NES and SNES 'won' their generations. The N64 was second (but everyone else past second place was doing so badly their existence is barely even remembered)
It was however quite profitable.

The gamecube was third. (of, in effect, 4 consoles. The 4th place being the Dreamcast, which finally undid sega)

Again, not 'winning' the competition between consoles, but nonetheless, it was a profitable console for Nintendo, so, from a business point of view, it was decently successful.

The Wii? Well, do I even need to say it? The 'it prints money meme' exists for a reason. It was the most successful console of the generation by a wide margin (except to people with a selective definition as to what qualifies as part of that generation of consoles), and well, again super-profitable to the point that Nintendo officially became a bigger company than Sony with possibly deeper pockets than Microsoft.

The Wii U? OK, so compared to the Wii it looks very bad. But it's sales figures are still in the millions. Like, 9 million so far or something. (in about 2 years)
To put this in context, the gamecube sold 22 million in it's lifetime.

So, the Wii U is on track to at least match the gamecube. And the gamecube was profitable for Nintendo. Which, really, is all that matters when you talk about 'success' or 'failure' in business...


Just, some people can't see the underlying reality.

The both the xbox and xbox 360 are 'failures' in a financial sense. Their existence has done nothing but cost microsoft money. They'd be more profitable without them, but keep going for other reasons, and perhaps in the hopes of building the brand.

It's all a matter of perspective.

From one perspective, Nintendo keeps 'losing' the home console market.

But from the perspective that matters to their ongoing survival, the situation looks quite different.

-Xbox is a consistent loser, and being propped up by Microsoft's other devisions.

-Playstation is successful (but Sony as a whole is a financial disaster, and the parent company could easily drag playstation down with it.)

-Nintendo's home consoles have all been financial successes, (some just more so than others), as have their handhelds. The company is in an amazingly good financial position at the moment, even considering their recent losses...

That is the true situation. From the perspective that actually matters to the continued survival of the companies involved. Of the 3, Nintendo is the least likely to stop making consoles.

Microsoft is doing OK, and still has deep pockets. But Xbox still isn't profitable, and they may decide to cut their losses at some point, and give up.

Playstation does very well, but Sony as whole does not, and if Sony were to collapse for some reason, we don't know if Playstation would go down with it, or if it would get sold off to someone else to cover debts. (which could have any number of consequences, but unless it's one of Sony's competitors, it's doubtful a company buying the playstation brand would mess it up too much, given it's one of the few consistently profitable divisions sony has)

And Nintendo? Facing more challenges than they have in a long time, but seriously, they have bucketloads of cash, The 3ds and Wii U both had rocky starts, but both appear to be either profitable, or close to it. Nintendo isn't going anywhere.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Of course it is. It's not like Bayonetta, bayonetta 2, or Hyrule warriors can run at full steam on any sort of handheld. Heck, even 3ds versions of Smash Bros, and Scribblenauts and who knows how many others are pretty watered down from the console version.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I'm fairly certain they know what they are doing.

Actually, the WiiU is the slowest selling console in Nintendo's history. Even Nintendo admits they're flopping and are already gearing up to announce a replacement console.


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/22/nintendo-games-console-mario-shigeru-miyamoto



So it's pretty bleak for them. To say that they are not flopping is in-congruent with the facts. I think they can turn things around through innovation or solid competition like I said above. But things are not good as is and it's important to acknowledge that. Rose colored lenses have seldom helped people with reality.

I'm sorry, but that's a real non-statement that people read way too much into. So miyamoto said they're working on a new console.
Big deal. Do you have any idea what the lead time on developing a new console is?

The Wii was released in 2006, and they first came up with the idea in 2001. The console was first announced to the public in 2004, 2 years before release.

(in case you missed it, that's 5 years of development, with an announcement which as I recall already explained the basic premise of the new console 2 years before it's release)

I'm fairly sure the N64 and Gamecube were announced way ahead of their actual releases too.

Given the typical console lifecycle, vaguely hinting at 'we have a new design in the works' at this point is blatantly pointing out the obvious.

Worse, given they are talking of 'experimenting with new ideas' that makes it even less likely they are quite ready to announce a new system.

And even if they make a more concrete announcement some time this year, given past history, that suggests a 2017 release at the earliest. Which is... Guess what? a standard 5 year console cycle... >_>

All this doomsaying based on basically nothing...