Is the Legend of Zelda a... JRPG?

[Canadamus Prime]

When the original was released back in '86, it was considered by many to be an RPG, what an RPG was not being very well defined then, but nowadays it's mostly considered to be Action-Adventure.

 

[Strain42]

engaging in dialogue with several stroy-driving characters, etc.

I don't really think that counts as an RPG Mechanic. Hell you could argue that's a book mechanic.

I admit that Zelda has a few elements of roleplaying games in it, but you don't really do a lot of actual role playing. You do very little to actually influence what happens directly to or around the character.

Also maybe this isn't the best way to judge something as an RPG but here's a little test I do. If you're stuck on a boss, will that boss become easier if you go and fight random enemies for a while. In Zelda's case the answer is No. You can't really level Link up, if you're stuck on a boss it's because you suck (not you personally, that's just how I phrase that)

 

[Baneat]

RPG game: Numbers decide if you hit a target. Like in world of warcraft.

Action/adventure games: The players skill decide if you hit the target. Like counter-strike, or legend of zelda.

Hm, but whether or not you hit in WoW depends sometimes on your positioning. You're less likely to be dodged or parried attacking an opponent from behind, so you can influence the liklihood to a degree. Does that tread into the other genre?

I would say your positioning in WoW influence the numbers, thus making the numbers more "likely", just like gear and items can give extra chances, so can positioning.

What about shred and backstab that can only be used on positioning? In addition, you've got to watch for the other guy if he puts up something like a shielding spell because it's useless to hit them then etc. etc.

The line's kinda blurry from what I'm seeing.

 

[cgentero]

The only thing keeping Zelda from being an RPG is numbers being displayed when you attack.

 

[badgersprite]

And here's where we discover that video game genre labels are effectively meaningless or at the very least a confused mess.

 

[psicat]

The Legend of Zelda is an adventure game with some RPG elements. Many games can contain RPG elements but that doesn't make them an RPG, usually a true RPG contains: stats that can be broken down into numbers, character leveling, an emphasis on story, and at least aspects of a party system.

 

[King of the Sandbox]

And here's where we discover that video game genre labels are effectively meaningless or at the very least a confused mess.

I'm agreeing with this, mostly. It's hard to really cement a game firmly in one house. I think complex games like this HAVE to be possessed of different aspects, including those from other genres. Thus, this becomes a game of semantics, really.

 

[mjc0961]

To be a JRPG, it has to be both made in Japan and be an RPG. Zelda is made in Japan but is not an RPG, and thus, not a JRPG.

 

[kickyourass]

As far as I can understand except for maybe the second one which had some leveling in it, all the Zelda games are more adventure then RPG.
I really don't understand why people keep calling it an RPG when it doesn't have any elements that are associated with RPGs.

 

[thePyro_13]

While LoZ isn't a shoe-in for RPG, it defiantly sits very close to the genre.

I guess the lesson here is that RPG is a horribly defined genre. Technically most games are Role playing, even doom. They should really be split into sandbox-statbuilders(oblivi-crap or the forever awesome Fallout) and story based-statbuilders(JRPG-> poku-man, FF, Dragon quest). With their own little sub-genres of turn-based or real time combat or even tactics style combat.

 

[Signa]

RPG game: Numbers decide if you hit a target. Like in world of warcraft.

Action/adventure games: The players skill decide if you hit the target. Like counter-strike, or legend of zelda.

Hm, but whether or not you hit in WoW depends sometimes on your positioning. You're less likely to be dodged or parried attacking an opponent from behind, so you can influence the liklihood to a degree. Does that tread into the other genre?

That right there is proof it is still a RPG. Granted, there are action elements to it, but it's still solidly a RPG. We still refer to WoW as a MMORPG though, because while there are action elements, the "massively multiplayer online" part is far more defining of the game genre than the actual gameplay.

 

[Baneat]

RPG game: Numbers decide if you hit a target. Like in world of warcraft.

Action/adventure games: The players skill decide if you hit the target. Like counter-strike, or legend of zelda.

Hm, but whether or not you hit in WoW depends sometimes on your positioning. You're less likely to be dodged or parried attacking an opponent from behind, so you can influence the liklihood to a degree. Does that tread into the other genre?

That right there is proof it is still a RPG. Granted, there are action elements to it, but it's still solidly a RPG. We still refer to WoW as a MMORPG though, because while there are action elements, the "massively multiplayer online" part is far more defining of the game genre than the actual gameplay.

I thought about the less likely bolded part, is it only if it dips from 0 to 100%? Because in that case you can consider melee range where if someone runs away from you your chance to hit dips to nil, or turns towards you your ability to use ravage/backstab/shred is removed from you entirely, or if you fail to keep certain spells up on your target you won't be able to use other ones effectively or at all.

I'm not doubting the RPGness of WoW, rather the definition given which defines action/adventure from an RPG. I don't feel that's sufficient.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I'd say it was more of an action adventure. So Jadventure game?

 

[madwarper]

RPG game: Numbers decide if you hit a target. Like in world of warcraft.

Action/adventure games: The players skill decide if you hit the target. Like counter-strike, or legend of zelda.

That's not a good example; Oblivion doesn't use numbers to determine whether or not a melee attack hit.
If you swung, and your target was within range, it connected. That doesn't make Oblivion any less of an RPG or Zelda any more of an RPG.

Rather, one of the most important feature of an RPG, imho, is Levels and Experience. aka. The grind.

• If you play WoW for a week and do nothing but kill boars...
  If you play Oblivion for a week and do nothing but kill mudcrabs...
  If you play Final Fantasy for a week and do nothing but kill goblins...
  If you play OoT for a week and do nothing but kill deku baba...

Now, it's a month later, is your WoW character exactly the same as when you started? How about your Oblivion character? How about your Final Fantasy party? How about Link?

Save for a possibly fatter wallet, Link will be exactly the same a week later as he did than when you first started. All others got exp for their kills and/or their actions of the kill.

 

[Helios_(DEL)]

A friend and I were just talking about JRPG's over Skype, when he asked me what my favorite was. For some reason, LoZ sprang to my head, so I said that. He proceeded to call me a blasphemer and swear that all my children will forever be born dogs.

But I kinda think I'm right.

I mean, it's a Japanese game... that's an action/rpg hybrid, right? So... JRPG?

It has rpg elements in it your not wrong

Where, in any legend of zelda can you make an actual choice?

Well i havent played all of them so i cant 100% comment however i know enough to know that you do make alot of choices in regards to getting rare and stronger items and sometimes in dialogue, look its not on mass effect standards of options however what im saying is that there is some small portion of RPG in the legend of zelda games.

 

[Signa]

RPG game: Numbers decide if you hit a target. Like in world of warcraft.

Action/adventure games: The players skill decide if you hit the target. Like counter-strike, or legend of zelda.

Hm, but whether or not you hit in WoW depends sometimes on your positioning. You're less likely to be dodged or parried attacking an opponent from behind, so you can influence the liklihood to a degree. Does that tread into the other genre?

That right there is proof it is still a RPG. Granted, there are action elements to it, but it's still solidly a RPG. We still refer to WoW as a MMORPG though, because while there are action elements, the "massively multiplayer online" part is far more defining of the game genre than the actual gameplay.

I thought about the less likely bolded part, is it only if it dips from 0 to 100%? Because in that case you can consider melee range where if someone runs away from you your chance to hit dips to nil, or turns towards you your ability to use ravage/backstab/shred is removed from you entirely, or if you fail to keep certain spells up on your target you won't be able to use other ones effectively or at all.

I'm not doubting the RPGness of WoW, rather the definition given which defines action/adventure from an RPG. I don't feel that's sufficient.

I'm not a WoW player, but the way I see it is that in Zelda, bosses and tougher enemies will have a flanking weakpoint, but it will usually be impossible to damage them otherwise. Attacking that weakpoint is the only way to defeat them, so the player's skill is critical. In a RPG, there isn't usually skill involved in such a maneuver, since you can defeat the enemy head-to-head.

What really sets it apart in my mind is how the game is calculating it. The best way to illustrate the differences is comparing Morrowind to Oblivion to Zelda.

In Morrowind, player skill was meaningless. If you character didn't have the stats to do something, and the player made him do it, there was a high chance of failure and death. This was an action RPG, because it was always moving in real time, but the game was governed by RPG rules.

In Oblivion, if the player made the character do something, he always did it, but after some practice he would do it even better. This is an Action game with RPG elements. The player's skill can change the outcome of a conflict far more than in an action RPG.

In Zelda, if you make your character do something, it always succeeds and never changes. This is an action game. Everything you do has a chance of failure, but it's not because Link isn't capable of it, it's because you suck controlling him.

Pure RPGs are mostly turn-based, because they are simulating every stat, including the character's ability to outmaneuver the opponents. Player's skill just becomes how well they can strategically resolve the conflict by making all the decisions. The rest is up to the characters to follow those commands to the best of their ability.

 

[Baneat]

Snippy

By your definition WoW is even more of an A/A game. There are bosses which you have to position on or you simply cannot do it, bosses that will kill you instantly if you stand head-on, etc. etc.

The player's skill truly is both critical but governed by RPG elements.

But:

Pure RPGs are mostly turn-based, because they are simulating every stat, including the character's ability to outmaneuver the opponents. Player's skill just becomes how well they can strategically resolve the conflict by making all the decisions. The rest is up to the characters to follow those commands to the best of their ability.

What about Advance Wars? It fits that but it has no levelling or such things.

 

[Signa]

Snippy

By your definition WoW is even more of an A/A game. There are bosses which you have to position on or you simply cannot do it, bosses that will kill you instantly if you stand head-on, etc. etc.

The player's skill truly is both critical but governed by RPG elements.

But:

Pure RPGs are mostly turn-based, because they are simulating every stat, including the character's ability to outmaneuver the opponents. Player's skill just becomes how well they can strategically resolve the conflict by making all the decisions. The rest is up to the characters to follow those commands to the best of their ability.

What about Advance Wars? It fits that but it has no levelling or such things.

It wouldn't surprise me if WoW is more of an A/A game, but like I thought I said (too lazy to check), I've never played it. A/A games are obviously more popular in that they draw the biggest crowds. I'm certain that WoW fits that. As we discussed though, tactics come strongly into play for boosting your invisible dice rolls. Even if a boss can kill you in one hit, that doesn't mean that the game couldn't allow you to survive if you had the right stats (higher defense, damage reductions, resistances, Hit points). In a true A/A game, the boss would kill you in one hit regardless of any other factors. In reality though, the reason why you die in one hit is because it's a by-product of being a MMO. A one-hit kill in most single player games is just mean, but it's quite a bit more reasonable if there is a party of 30 people who will need 30 hits (or more with resurrections) for the player team to be defeated.

Advanced Wars isn't a RPG at all, it's a strategy game. Specifically a turn-based strategy. Yes, the characters you control all have stats, but they are fixed per unit. Even in Days of Ruin where your units can level up, a level 2 tank is always always going to be the same as another level 2 tank. At least in JRPGs where you could make a similar argument because of fixed level progression you will find slight differences because of equipment load-outs and magic or skill selections.