Is the next generation looking to be a return to form?

[DrunkOnEstus]

Snip

Come on, cut me some slack here. I never "only wanted PC games", I love my PC but I will always be interested in what experiences the consoles have to bring, as I will be excited about what all of gaming brings as a whole. The major examples I listed (Xcom, Dishonored, and Bayonetta 2) are at home on the consoles too.

Obsidian's last games (South Park, Dungeon Siege 3, New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol) are to or did come out on PC and console alike. Eternity is an exception, but if it turns out to be a wild success who's to say it won't see a port in the future on XBLA or the future console's equivalent? Or even on tablet like Baldur's Gate is seeing? Even if that never happens, it's release on PC could all the same be a statement about the gaming industry as a whole. Publishers don't pick and choose favorites but what's financially viable and if the want the money they like they'll continue to do that.

Also, I am under no illusion that the games heavily blasted at the launch of a console are the ones to truly look forward to (with rare exceptions). Not even Bayonetta 2 will be available at launch, and no console will come to be defined in its core success strictly by its release titles years after the fact. I fear I must re-evaluate how I present myself if it's feasible that an outside source of retardation of any type has afflicted me.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

Basicly it's:

1. Jagged Alliance 2 (and to a lesser extent the original).
2. UFO:EU = XCOM (it's sequels / spinoffs didn't succeed as well).

a really big gap

3. Fallout Tactics (it's a mediocre game really)
4. SRPGs that are good enough but aren't the same thing(genre) anymore, games like Tactics Ogre and Knights of the Chalice.

I see, thank you for the education. I actually never played Jagged Alliance 2, but I loved the original years ago and if the sequel is more "tactical" then I just may look into that.

This being so, I truly applaud the bravery of Firaxis for spending years trying to bring back a genre like this. Good on them.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

GCN: 22 million.
PS2: 154 million.

Whether Nintendo made sufficiently "hardcore" games during the 6th generation is irrelevant. It's clear that the vast majority of "hardcore" gamers didn't buy a Gamecube.

I think you're ignoring a few other possibilities. Don't forget, there aren't near as many hardcore gamers as there are just average gamers, even before the "casual market" became a major demographic. These numbers don't show the demographics, they just say "More people bought a PS2 then a Gamecube." For all any of us know, that 22 million could have more hardcore gamers in there then the 154 million.

Sales figures or no, the Gamecube still had a large amount of games that appealed to the hardcore market (on top of that, I personally feel Nintendo was at the top of their game with 1st part releases back then). There was certainly enough there to justify a purchase from us.

Keep in mind I'm not necessarily trying to discredit you, but that isn't really enough evidence to back up your argument.

Oh, and by the way the PS2 outlasted the Gamecube by like 5 years. It would be odd if it DIDN'T outsell the Gamecube.

 

[TrevHead]

PC doing well is good for everybody even those who don't play on PC, It gives a space for indies to grow and some of them find their way onto console.

It's gives the rest of the industry an kick up the arse when something new becomes popular, because many of them need it atm.

 

[SeaCalMaster]

Here are the sales figures.

GCN: 22 million.
PS2: 154 million.

Whether Nintendo made sufficiently "hardcore" games during the 6th generation is irrelevant. It's clear that the vast majority of "hardcore" gamers didn't buy a Gamecube.

So a big part of the 154 million were 'hardcore' gamers? Where do you get that statement from? I remember that about everyone had a PS2 back then, from dads to some guy who wanted more of his dvd player than just playing dvds.

And by that logic the Wii is a more hardcore console this gen because it outsold the PS3 and 360 by a landslide.

(Damn this 'hardcore' bullshit start to irk me... Most of the so called hardcore gamers spend the most part playing those dang casual games)

Ugh.

I thought the chain of thought was clear here, but apparently it wasn't. Allow me to elaborate.

Let's be generous and say that everyone who bought a Gamecube also bought a PS2. That would still leave 132 million out of 154 million gamers who bought only the PS2, meaning that, if we also ignore the Xbox and Dreamcast (also a generous assumption), 85.7% of the market avoided the Gamecube in the last generation. Now, it's hard to determine exactly what proportion of the market consists of "hardcore" gamers (and I'll elaborate on that in a bit), but even if only 30% of gamers are "hardcore," that still means that a majority of them bought a PS2 and didn't buy a Gamecube.

Now, just so we're clear on this point, I'm not in support of the ridiculous "casual"/"hardcore" dichotomy. (You might have picked up on this from the quotation marks I put around the terms.) Those terms get thrown around so much that they have no real meaning. If, however, we focus on gamers who call themselves "hardcore," we can make meaningful statements.

You might notice that I originally made the point to counter the OP's assertion that Nintendo lost the "hardcore" market with the Wii; my claim was that whatever "hardcore" gamers abandoned Nintendo did so before the 7th generation. It's not an absolute proof, but it's a simpler (and therefore better) explanation of the data than "There aren't that many "hardcore" gamers AND they all bought Gamecubes AND everyone buying the PS2 was really buying it for its DVD-playing abilities AND for some reason they didn't use the same justification when it came to the PS3."

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Snip

Come on, cut me some slack here. I never "only wanted PC games", I love my PC but I will always be interested in what experiences the consoles have to bring, as I will be excited about what all of gaming brings as a whole. The major examples I listed (Xcom, Dishonored, and Bayonetta 2) are at home on the consoles too.

Obsidian's last games (South Park, Dungeon Siege 3, New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol) are to or did come out on PC and console alike. Eternity is an exception, but if it turns out to be a wild success who's to say it won't see a port in the future on XBLA or the future console's equivalent? Or even on tablet like Baldur's Gate is seeing? Even if that never happens, it's release on PC could all the same be a statement about the gaming industry as a whole. Publishers don't pick and choose favorites but what's financially viable and if the want the money they like they'll continue to do that.

Also, I am under no illusion that the games heavily blasted at the launch of a console are the ones to truly look forward to (with rare exceptions). Not even Bayonetta 2 will be available at launch, and no console will come to be defined in its core success strictly by its release titles years after the fact. I fear I must re-evaluate how I present myself if it's feasible that an outside source of retardation of any type has afflicted me.

Yes, well, I am quite annoyed at the "next generation" being associated with trends of certain types of games coming back into the frame. Because there has been an awful lot of sturm und drang involved in getting these things back. Still, people who argue for them are put down as fossils or people actively trying to keep game development from advancing. (Only when it's something they personally don't love though.) The very thing that is being pushed back is the sort of philosophy of people who believe in a console centred game industry, it's popcorn movie blockbusters, it's eternal love of "next gen."

 

[soes757]

Adverts on the Escapists barely even qualify. You might get one person, the Escapist isn't very big.

The real ads are on TV. Dishonored had ads out the ass on TV, and yet it was still beaten by XCOM.

I've also seen them on ARS, IGN and RPS.
Attack of the acronyms!
I've never seen a Dishonored ad on TV.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Even on Steam dishonored had more ads, even on XCOM's launch day it had a big ad for Dishonored on the front.

That shouldn't be too big of a surprise. Xcom and Dishonored were released on the same day. Dishonored was just hyped up more.

I think we're seeing more of a rise for niche games than anything. I think games that specialize in a single demographic are a welcome change of pace from all the homogenized nonsense we seem to see nowadays that insists on catering to every single possible customer.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Even on Steam dishonored had more ads, even on XCOM's launch day it had a big ad for Dishonored on the front.

That shouldn't be too big of a surprise. Xcom and Dishonored were released on the same day. Dishonored was just hyped up more.

I think we're seeing more of a rise for niche games than anything. I think games that specialize in a single demographic are a welcome change of pace from all the homogenized nonsense we seem to see nowadays that insists on catering to every single possible customer.

A hyped up game beaten in sales by a game with very little hype at all? And people even questioned its quality until it came out.

If this isn't a miracle pulled out the ass of a wizard. I dunno what is.

No argument there. Although I think Xcom still got some decent exposure. Good god almighty until I became a PubClub member, all I ever saw was Xcom this, Xcom that. But the sales it got are still pretty amazing.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

What I wonder though is how a game like Witcher 2, which pushed computers to their limit and still can't really run right with ubersampling, could be made for around 10 million bucks with its size and scope?

Here's a hint: The average Polish wage is around 1/3 of the average US wage.

 

[soes757]

There were ads. A lot of them.

Even on Steam dishonored had more ads, even on XCOM's launch day it had a big ad for Dishonored on the front.

Well that's a nice ad, can't believe I've never seen it.